Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

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OlBlueEyesClub
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by OlBlueEyesClub »

Lupara wrote:
OlBlueEyesClub wrote:Ed Scarpo has been wrong on a lot of things. I personally wouldn't put too much credence into his articles. And to clarify my earlier posts, Montagna didn't have the Ontario backing from the Calabrian clans, Desjardins did. And through Desjardins, Montagna had the privilege of their backing by extension. But it was for a short time only as history has shown, once he and Desjardins began arguing and Desjardins decided to have nothing to do with Montagna, away went his 'Ndrangheta backing along with Desjardins.
Source?

Dude you don't need a source for everything. Others have even said on this forum and RD that his Ontario connections most likely stemmed from Desjardins and Mirarchi, I've never seen you asking them for sources. Sometimes things are just common sense. Why didnt "Montagnas Ontario connections" do anything after his murder? And not to mention Mirarchi's Ontario Mafia connections are always cited in articles that discuss the "Rizzuto mob takeover" from this time. Not "Montagnas Ontario Mafia Connections, in all likelihood Montagnas Ontario backing stemmed from Mirarchi and Desjardins. And the proof is the linked article and the way Desjardins and Mirarchi clearly thought of Montagna as a nobody without their aid.


And I know all about Larry Lo Presti, Tony Suzuki, and Moreno Gallo. But they weren't ever considered to be on the same level as the Arcuris. And what happened to Lo Presti & Suzkuki after Montagna was murdered? They were hit too, Suzuki only lucky enough to survive for the time being.


And I don't think personally, that Montagnas trips to Montreal debunks that the Rizzutos broke off from the Bonannos as there is so much evidence that supports that they did, and vice versa, so I don't think it can be ruled out either way, but I'm of the opinion that the Rizzutos did break off. But I've already voiced my views on that and why I believe so when I first joined this place.
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Lupara
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

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OlBlueEyesClub wrote:Dude you don't need a source for everything. Others have even said on this forum and RD that his Ontario connections most likely stemmed from Desjardins and Mirarchi, I've never seen you asking them for sources. Sometimes things are just common sense. Why didnt "Montagnas Ontario connections" do anything after his murder? And not to mention Mirarchi's Ontario Mafia connections are always cited in articles that discuss the "Rizzuto mob takeover" from this time. Not "Montagnas Ontario Mafia Connections, in all likelihood Montagnas Ontario backing stemmed from Mirarchi and Desjardins. And the proof is the linked article and the way Desjardins and Mirarchi clearly thought of Montagna as a nobody without their aid.
This isn't the Real Deal Forum. There are several prominent posters here who don't have access to that forum.

Can you show me a credible source that specifically states that Montagna gained his Ontario connections from Desjardins, or is it again your personal observation? If you consider this to be a fact then you have an obligation to support it with evidence. People here don't take 'common sense' for granted.
Last edited by Lupara on Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

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I consider it to be a fact through my own personal observations. The article I linked I consider to be evidence, and I already said why in my previous post. Accept that or don't. Or you can choose to accept or ignore this...

Mob slayings rise after Rizzuto's return

PAUL CHERRY, GAZETTE CRIME REPORTER 02.07.201



Published Feb. 8, 2013.

MONTREAL — Four months after his return to Montreal it appears Vito Rizzuto was underestimated when many predicted his demise as the Mafia clan he allegedly runs seemed to be on its knees two years ago.

An effort to wrestle control of the Mafia in Montreal from the Rizzuto clan appears to have failed, experts said, after it blew up in the face of the men allegedly behind it, leaving Rizzuto almost unchallenged when he returned to the city in October after serving most of a 10-year prison term in the United States for his role in the 1981 murders of three fellow mobsters in New York.

Since Nov. 4, seven murders and two attempted murders in the Montreal area have involved victims who reportedly had ties to the Mafia. But experts and police sources cautioned that not all appear to be directly related to Rizzuto’s return to Montreal.

The man who appeared to be pulling the strings in the effort to take control away from the Rizzutos was Joseph Di Maulo, 70, a former associate of Rizzuto’s who was killed outside his home in Blainville in November. A coalition headed by Di Maulo apparently self-destructed when two of its key figures, Salvatore Montagna and Raynald Desjardins (Di Maulo’s brother-in-law), had a falling out during summer 2011. Montagna was killed just east of Montreal on Nov. 24, 2011. Desjardins is charged with Montagna’s murder along with four other men, including Vittorio Mirarchi, 35, who, according to police sources, offered the coalition a link to support from other Mafia organizations based in Ontario.

The other Mafia-related bloodshed that followed Di Maulo’s murder appears to involve lower-level players who might have been victims of old scores being settled, said at least a few people interviewed by The Gazette this week.

However, one of the homicides stands out among the others because of the victim’s very close ties to Desjardins. Gaéten Gosselin, 69, was shot near his home in St-Léonard on the evening of Jan. 22, the coldest day of the winter so far in Montreal. Gosselin was something of an unknown entity to police but, according to provincial business records, he was the president of a numbered company that was the majority shareholder in a construction company Desjardins ran after being released from a penitentiary in 2004. Desjardins had served a 15-year sentence for taking part in a conspiracy to smuggle hundreds of kilograms of cocaine with the Hells Angels. While Desjardins was under investigation in that case, in 1994, police considered him a trusted associate of Vito Rizzuto’s. But that friendship appears to be ancient history.

“It’s possible Gosselin was killed merely to send a message to Desjardins or to remove someone who might have been important to his (legitimate) business interests while he’s (detained),” a police source said.

Whatever the motives might be behind the recent slayings and attempted murders, some of the victims were tied to groups that, police said, sided with Di Maulo’s coalition. It is a sign, police sources said, that things appear to be turning in Rizzuto’s favour. He was behind bars in the U.S. between December 2009 and November 2010, when his father Nicolo and son Nick Jr. were killed and his brother-in-law, Paolo Renda, disappeared.

Interactive map: Mob hits since October


View Mafia Hits since Oct. 2012 in a larger map
“While he was in jail, he still had an army, a large army that stayed loyal to (Rizzuto),” one police source said. He added that Agostino Cuntrera — an ally of the Rizzuto clan who was killed in St-Léonard in 2010 — had a similar “army” of his own. Most of that “army” remained loyal to the Rizzutos, with a couple of exceptions who were the victims of violence near the end of 2011.

Almost all of the people interviewed by The Gazette this week played down the ancestral differences between the Rizzuto organization — whose leaders originated from Sicily — and those of Calabrian origin, who sided with Di Maulo. But, one police source said, the differences did contribute to the turmoil in that as Rizzuto’s influence faded during his absence, several of the Calabrian leaders in Montreal showed little motivation to support his organization while it was attacked. Many of those Calabrian leaders were around when the Cotroni clan, also of Calabrian origin, controlled the Mafia in Montreal before the Rizzutos took over during the late 1970s.

“Since (Rizzuto’s) return, we appear to be seeing a return to force of the Sicilians and you have to ask if it isn’t playing in the favour of Vito Rizzuto,” said Pierre De Champlain, a retired RCMP analyst and the author of books on the Mafia. “But this remains to be seen. I don’t think Vito Rizzuto is in control of the situation as it stands now. But it seems that things are turning in his favour. No one could have foreseen this about a year ago.”

“I think that Rizzuto has the support of people who were underestimated. It really is an unexpected reversal.”

For years, Di Maulo had been described by police as someone who preferred to keep a low profile despite his influence within the Mafia. His brother-in-law, Desjardins, is the opposite — a charismatic figure among organized crime groups, the Hells Angels in particular — and his personality among the doomed coalition would have been important.

Montagna was the outsider to the group, a foreign element added to existing chemistry. He was more than two decades younger than Di Maulo and Desjardins, and was suddenly dropped into Montreal’s underworld in 2009 after being deported from the U.S. and returned to Canada, where he was a citizen even if he had not lived here long.

“With the time that has passed we can see that, even if he was in prison, Vito Rizzuto was still in control of the situation in Montreal. The winds have changed in his favour,” De Champlain said while referring to Rizzuto’s reputation as a charismatic arbitrator among Montreal’s organized crime groups. He also noted that many people in the Mob are probably impressed with how Rizzuto refused to turn informant even though leaders of the New York-based Bonanno crime family gave evidence against him, related to the 1981 murders, in order to save their own hides.

A couple of the victims of the recent violence in Montreal — besides Gosselin and Di Maulo — appear to have ties to Giuseppe (Ponytail) De Vito, 46, who is serving a 15-year prison term for attempting to smuggle 218 kilograms of cocaine into Canada. The conspiracy was uncovered while the Rizzuto clan was under investigation in Project Colisée.

Secretly recorded conversations portrayed De Vito as someone who worked with the Rizzuto organization even though he did not trust some of its members and blamed them when the cocaine was seized. His resentment toward the Rizzuto clan apparently dates to 2004 when his boss, Paolo Gervasi, was murdered during a dispute with the Rizzuto clan. Evidence gathered in Project Colisée revealed the Rizzutos took notice of the fact that De Vito and two of his partners, including Giuseppe (Closure) Colapelle, stopped paying tribute to the Rizzuto clan after Gervasi’s death. Colapelle was murdered in St-Léonard in 2012.

On Dec. 21, Domenico Facchini, 37, was killed and another man was injured when a gunman opened fire inside Café Domenica-In on Provencher Blvd. in St-Léonard. The café is part of a building owned by a numbered company controlled by De Vito’s wife, Adele Sorella, 46. Sorella was charged with murdering the couple’s two daughters while De Vito was on the lam in 2009.

While police sources said they knew little about Facchini — he had a relatively minor criminal record — they also said it appears De Vito was allied with Desjardins before both were arrested in their respective cases.

But everyone interviewed by The Gazette said they doubt all of the violence is the result of two clearly defined groups warring with each other.

“During Rizzuto’s absence, Desjardins and Montagna were trying to take over,” said Antonio Nicaso, author of several books about organized crime.

“The fact that a lot of people close to them are being killed makes it appear there is a sort of retaliation to it. That is the only thing we can say. But who is doing it? It is hard to say. It’s very difficult to understand what is going on. I think there is a lack of intelligence, a lack of (police) resources, because it is hard to tell who is on one side and who is on the other side.

“For so many years, we had only one (Mafia) organization in Montreal, unlike in Toronto and in other cities. In Montreal, the Rizzuto clan was very strong, very powerful. No else one had an opportunity to say anything. The power and charisma of Vito Rizzuto was very clear. The absence of Rizzuto gave an opportunity to many people to do what they’ve had in mind for years, but were incapable of doing it under his leadership. For the first time (when Rizzuto was absent) people had the freedom to do things they had wanted to do for a long time — in some cases take retaliation against rivals.”

Like De Champlain, Nicaso said Rizzuto’s influence appeared to travel beyond the Colorado penitentiary where he was incarcerated for almost all of his sentence. This influence apparently helped maintain enough support to hold his organization together long enough for it to survive.

“It’s not easy to challenge Vito Rizzuto or replace Vito Rizzuto. To replace him, they would have to also replace the political and financial connections of Vito Rizzuto,” Nicaso said. “Violence doesn’t guarantee longevity. Muscle on the street doesn’t give you the opportunity to succeed. I don’t see at the moment an organization powerful enough to replace the Rizzutos. But, also, these political and financial connections have been exposed by the Charbonneau Commission. So the Rizzuto crime family is weaker, not because of a challenge from a group on the streets from a younger generation, but their connections have been exposed by the Charbonneau Commission. If someone wants to replace them, they’d have to build the political and financial connections.”

Another possible challenge Rizzuto might face would come from Mafia clans based in Ontario, rather than on the streets of Montreal, said André Cédilot, co-author of the book Mafia Inc., which details the rise of the Rizzuto clan.

“There was (and still is) a destabilization in the milieu. For years, there were people who profited from this destabilization,” Cédilot said while adding Rizzuto has probably already sorted out who was loyal to his organization while he was incarcerated.

“His strength comes from knowing everything, the rumours, who likes him, who doesn’t,” Cédilot said. “He knows everything. I think he still has his network and that is also his strength.”

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/sla ... story.html

What does that say? According to police sources, Vittorio Mirarchi offered the coalition a link to support from Mafia Organizations based in Ontario. Who offered the coalition support from Mob clans in Ontario. VITTORIO MIRARCHI. Meaning, who gave Montagna a link to the mob clans in Ontario ? VITTORIO MIRARCHI. Meaning whom was Montagna Dependant on for his links to the mob clans in Ontario? VITTORIO F'N MIRARCHI. Or did I just pull this article out of my ass? ....Yeah, didn't think so.
Last edited by OlBlueEyesClub on Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

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OlBlueEyesClub wrote:I consider it to be a fact through my own personal observations. The article I linked I consider to be evidence, and I already said why in my previous post. Accept that or don't.
That article doesn't state or indicate in the slightest that Montagna was dependent on Desjardins and Mirarchi for communication with Ontario.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by OlBlueEyesClub »

You're right, but the article I just linked above you sure does.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by Chucky »

You don't think it's a bit of a leap that Montagna's connection to Ontario came solely through Mirarchi? Montagna was a high level guy in New York with long standing ties in Canada, I would have to think Montagna had his own connections in Ontario along with some overlap with Mirarchi's connections.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by OlBlueEyesClub »

I personally don't, because if we're talking about proof and not just speculation, what's out there to support Montagna having his own Ontario connections? I presented an article which says it was Mirarchi who brought along the Ontario connects, and it doesn't mention anything about his connects overlapping with Montagnas or any of that. What's out there to support Montagna having any of his own? Just asking for the sake of discussion.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

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Because Montagna had history in Canada, he wasn't a stranger to the area, he was from there and was aligned with Sciascia as B. pointed out, he was not a fish out of water. I'm just trying to use some logic, not saying you're not. Montagna was not a nobody, if he was a flunky he wouldn't have been able to become one of the keys players so quickly up there. I just think it's a big assumption to suggest Montagna had no Ontario connections of his own.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

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Mirarchi has ties to the Commissos in Toronto through his family. It is unclear whether Montagna even met with the Commissos. The only evidence so far is that he met with Paolo Violi's sons and with members of the Camera di Controllo who were hostile towards the Rizzutos. The Commissos however had strong, longstanding ties with the Rizzuto family.

I agree with Chucky on this subject. Also, the weird resentment against Montagna's status and dealings by some people is asinine.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by OlBlueEyesClub »

I'm not saying I think Montagna was nobody, I'm saying that's what the texts by Montagna and Mirarchi are saying. And thats what was implied in the book Business Or Blood by Nicaso, who I think had access to these texts a long while ago. A book that also mentions Montagna making various visits to Toronto & Hamilton, but there's nothing saying who he was meeting with, other than Violis sons, which I mentioned before, but othert than them, theres no saying who those other guys were also connected to, and why they allowed Montagna to sit with them anyway. Maybe he was advised to go meet with those guys from Di Maulo or Gallo , I don't know. You just raised some valid points that I previously knew about but never really took the time out to think of, because as Lupara said, "this forum is about proofs" or whatever. So I presented proof which says that the Ontario connections were brought to Montagna through Mirarchi. But I don't know for sure, I just know that it seems like Mirarchi still has those connections, while I question that if Montagna had such strong connections and ties to Ontario, how come they didn't act on his behalf to keep him from being murdered? Doesn't logic also come into effect when one is thinking for an answer to that question?
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by OlBlueEyesClub »

Lupara wrote:Mirarchi has ties to the Commissos in Toronto through his family. It is unclear whether Montagna even met with the Commissos. The only evidence so far is that he met with Paolo Violi's sons and with members of the Camera di Controllo who were hostile towards the Rizzutos. The Commissos however had strong, longstanding ties with the Rizzuto family.

I agree with Chucky on this subject. Also, the weird resentment against Montagna's status and dealings by some people is asinine.
So did the Caruanas/Cuntreras, and like the Commissos, they are said to have turned on the Rizzutos.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by Lupara »

OlBlueEyesClub wrote:
Lupara wrote:Mirarchi has ties to the Commissos in Toronto through his family. It is unclear whether Montagna even met with the Commissos. The only evidence so far is that he met with Paolo Violi's sons and with members of the Camera di Controllo who were hostile towards the Rizzutos. The Commissos however had strong, longstanding ties with the Rizzuto family.

I agree with Chucky on this subject. Also, the weird resentment against Montagna's status and dealings by some people is asinine.
So did the Caruanas/Cuntreras, and like the Commissos, they are said to have turned on the Rizzutos.
They did? By whom?
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by Lupara »

OlBlueEyesClub wrote:So I presented proof which says that the Ontario connections were brought to Montagna through Mirarchi.
Yet again you're confusing what's actually been said with your own assumptions and present it as a fact. This is very disturbing.
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by OlBlueEyesClub »

....Interesting, what do you think the bolded means then?


The man who appeared to be pulling the strings in the effort to take control away from the Rizzutos was Joseph Di Maulo, 70, a former associate of Rizzuto’s who was killed outside his home in Blainville in November. A coalition headed by Di Maulo apparently self-destructed when two of its key figures, Salvatore Montagna and Raynald Desjardins (Di Maulo’s brother-in-law), had a falling out during summer 2011. Montagna was killed just east of Montreal on Nov. 24, 2011. Desjardins is charged with Montagna’s murder along with four other men, including Vittorio Mirarchi, 35, who, according to police sources, offered the coalition a link to support from other Mafia organizations based in Ontario.
What coalition are they talking about? The one that they wrote about, involving Di Maulo, Desjardins, Montagna, and Mirarchi himself, or some other unnamed coalition?


And its said in Business Or Blood , by the authors, read it, specifically the part in which they mention members of the Commisso group attending the fiftieth wedding anniversary for Paolo Cuntrera, and then the two groups hopping on a rented bus to go attend the funeral of a high ranking member of the Comisso clan. Or better yet, has the Siderno group not been theorized to have turned on the Rizzuto group? Are the Commisso's not a part of the Siderno group? And again, are they not theorised to have turned on the Rizzutos, along with the Caruana-Cuntrera group? Or have you not seen these theories either?
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Re: Montagna's Epic Potential to Be Canada's Boss (scarpos claim montagna was aligned w the cartels)

Post by Lupara »

The Siderno group consists of factions that are currently fueding with each other. They're definitely not all on the same page. If you've paid any attention to antimafia's extensive posts on this subject you'd know this.

Again, the article does not state that Montagna was dependent on Mirarchi for alliances with Ontario groups. It only reaffirms Mirarchi's links with Ontario. But as I've pointed out, the Siderno group consists of multiple clans and alliances.

Here's an older article that states this:

Police sources believe there was a pact between Montagna and Calabrian-based ‘ndrangheta crime families in Ontario. Further, the Calabrian clans with links to Montagna have operations in New York which have been operating under the radar because law enforcement is focused on terrorism.

The first shots may have been fired by a coalition of Montagna’s clan and southern Ontario’s Calabrian groups, but police had been waiting for the response to determine who is on which side.


http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/24/re ... oss-killed
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