Page 21
Sr continues discussing the threat that DiForti potentially poses to Nick if he were to cooperate. He continues by saying he could get Ronnie Jarrett to get word to"Michael" [Talarico] to see Nick and assuage his fears. Jr makes an interesting comment concerning Nick's calmness (or lack thereof) under pressure: "...you know how he panics right away if nobody's around to tell him... And Jimmy [Marcello] sees he starts acting funny... it could become a nightmare." By telling Nick to stay calm and reassuring him, they in turn hope to keep him calm in front of Marcello. Sr confesses that he doesn't have any "bad vibes" about the whole situation.
Page 22
They continue discussing their worries about Nick's mental state and how it could lead Marcello to start worrying himself. Sr explains that Marcello still needs to know the feds are looking into Nick.
Page 23
Sr switches his conversation to the "short guy," who is Joseph "Shorty" LaMantia, another member of the 26th Street crew who is locked up with them. "Charlie," "Rocky," "Raymond," and "Sonny" are all, I believe, individuals incarcerated with the Calabreses and LaMantia. Some or all of them (not entirely sure) are LCN affiliated, mostly from the east coast. Sr asks Jr about LaMantia and Jr recalls LaMantia speaking with "Rocky" about some hits in the cafeteria. Sr dismisses this as LMantia playing himself up to Rocky to appear bigger than he really was.
EDIT: "Charlie" may be Charles Marzano, a low-level knockaround guy who was serving time for drugs and money laundering. His father was one of the ringleaders of infamous Purolator heist in 1974.
To give you a brief backstory on this whole situation, LaMantia got into big trouble with Sr by introducing Sr as made to other LCN guys, possibly the same individuals mentioned above. This was problematic for a couple of reasons: Although an important lieutenant under Angelo LaPietra for many years, LaMantia was himself not made; introducing Sr as made gave the appearance that LaMantia was made to the other inmates (typically only other made guys can introduce another guy as made); and, perhaps worst of all, Sr did not want to be recognized as made, period, as he did not want that fact to be known around the prison.
Jr and Sr continue their discussion on LaMantia and Jr suggests that perhaps the "G" or "the street" also believes what LaMantia is trying to convey - that he's made and has done some killing. Sr disagrees but backpedals a bit by saying they know but they don't know - otherwise, why did they give him more time than LaMantia for similar crimes? Ostensibly, this is because the feds believe that Sr is a killer but can't prove it, so they give him a heavier sentence than a guy like LaMantia, who doesn't enjoy as vicious a reputation.
Page 24
Sr talks a little about "the life." Jr mentions Scarpelli and LaMantia as guys who just share heresy, and know less than what they actually do. Gerald Scarpelli was a made guy under Joe Ferriola who agreed to cooperate with the government in 1988, then recanted his confessions and hung himself in his cell a few months later. When Sr talks about making a "new uniform" he is talking about making guys. Jr is surprised as he always thought that this was just a movie thing. Sr goes onto say that you may be in the life for ten or fifteen years before it happens.
Page 25
Sr says that making guys isn't from the movies - it's real. He goes on to say that the way they did in the Godfather novel was close to real life and that the author must have had a relative in the life or knew someone who was involved, although he may be getting it confused with another book as I don't recall a ceremony from the novel.
Sr then goes into detail concerning the actual ceremony: The participants' fingers are cut and "they" [the bosses] take holy pictures and put them in the participants hands. The pictures are then lit on fire and the participants stay still while the pictures burn.
Page 26
Sr states the ceremony is performed separately for each proposed individual and the person doing all the speaking is the "second guy in charge." Sr doesn't mention names, but Nick testified that Al Tornabene presided over the ceremony. This is probably who Sr was referring to as the "second guy in charge." He also doesn't specify if this is in charge of the Outfit itself or the ceremony but it's probably the latter. John Cerone was underboss at the time but was not present at the ceremony. At any rate, Sr explains that the rest of the capos are watching, including the one that "brought you in," in this case, meaning Angelo LaPietra, whom Jr jokes wants nothing to do with the Calabreses anymore. Sr responds by confiding to Jr that he initially told LaPietra that he didn't want to be made because it would tie him down and not allow him to do anything else.
Page 27
Sr goes on to say that LaPietra said that this is not true but this is contrary to what Sr has been told. Sr believed that he carried enough respect without having to be made. Jr asks him if he regrets it and Sr replies in the positive but admits that burning the holy cards was what he regrets the most. Jr also talks about something that bothers him is getting ordered to kill someone for no reason, even if it's someone you're close to.
Page 28
Sr states that this never bothered him because innocent people didn't get hurt. This is particularly ironic since Sr would later be charged for planning or committing the murder of at least three individuals who were simply accomplices of Outfit hit targets. The only people targeted for death were those trying to "hurt our people" or "stool pigeons." Sr says the Outfit never gave a third warning which seems generous to me as some didn't even get one but c'est la vie.
Jr asks, rather naively I may add, about guys who didn't do what they were told or who owned a company (place of business) the Outfit wanted and Sr matter-of-factly replies that they "give the fucking company up and get out of here." If they didn't, they'd be in trouble.
Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Moderator: Capos
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
2/14/99 (continued):
https://web.archive.org/web/20120114133 ... s_7_10.pdf
Page 1
We pick up in the middle of a conversation about some property. The "Nitti" mentioned is Nick Nitti, an Outfit associate who, if memory serves me correctly, was a relative of Frank. "Kurt" is one of Sr's other sons and the discussion shifts to a guy named "Johnny" (LNU) who owed Sr around 40 grand and knocked it down to 10.
Page 2
Initially, "Johnny" appeared to not want to pay anymore until Sr "put somebody on him." As long as "Johnny" left the money someplace for Sr's guy to pick it up, then he wouldn't be bothered. Part of Sr's argument for getting the money owed to him was that it was "his family's" which I found interesting. Sr goes into how he typically treats his "customers" with respect unless they refuse to pay or badmouth him, as in the case of a "Peachy," who Sr had to smack around. Not sure who Peachy is/was.
Page 3
Sr talks a little bit about how he handled his juice customers. The 14 grand Sr is talking about starting out with may have been the juice money he started out with on the streets back in the late sixties. He talks about going to "them" to get the money and this may be referring to Angelo LaPietra's crew. Sr was an independent bookie/juice loan guy until he was told that he'd be working with Angelo in the sixties.
Page 4
It's difficult to decipher some of these transcripts that pick up immediately after "non-pertinent" conversations because a lot of the subjects discussed were carried over from those initial non-pertinent pages. Not sure who "Uncle Eddie" or "Tommie" are. The "Big Guy" may be a reference to one of the bosses, such as Monteleone, as opposed to an actual "big" guy.
Page 5
Sr recalls how he got Nick a lot of jobs back in the late sixties/early seventies through his Outfit connections. The "Larry" mentioned is Lawrence Stubitsch, who was Sr's first partner. In 1966, Stubitsch was killed by another Outfit associate following an altercation.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120114133 ... s_7_10.pdf
Page 1
We pick up in the middle of a conversation about some property. The "Nitti" mentioned is Nick Nitti, an Outfit associate who, if memory serves me correctly, was a relative of Frank. "Kurt" is one of Sr's other sons and the discussion shifts to a guy named "Johnny" (LNU) who owed Sr around 40 grand and knocked it down to 10.
Page 2
Initially, "Johnny" appeared to not want to pay anymore until Sr "put somebody on him." As long as "Johnny" left the money someplace for Sr's guy to pick it up, then he wouldn't be bothered. Part of Sr's argument for getting the money owed to him was that it was "his family's" which I found interesting. Sr goes into how he typically treats his "customers" with respect unless they refuse to pay or badmouth him, as in the case of a "Peachy," who Sr had to smack around. Not sure who Peachy is/was.
Page 3
Sr talks a little bit about how he handled his juice customers. The 14 grand Sr is talking about starting out with may have been the juice money he started out with on the streets back in the late sixties. He talks about going to "them" to get the money and this may be referring to Angelo LaPietra's crew. Sr was an independent bookie/juice loan guy until he was told that he'd be working with Angelo in the sixties.
Page 4
It's difficult to decipher some of these transcripts that pick up immediately after "non-pertinent" conversations because a lot of the subjects discussed were carried over from those initial non-pertinent pages. Not sure who "Uncle Eddie" or "Tommie" are. The "Big Guy" may be a reference to one of the bosses, such as Monteleone, as opposed to an actual "big" guy.
Page 5
Sr recalls how he got Nick a lot of jobs back in the late sixties/early seventies through his Outfit connections. The "Larry" mentioned is Lawrence Stubitsch, who was Sr's first partner. In 1966, Stubitsch was killed by another Outfit associate following an altercation.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Great stuff, kind of shocked to hear Sr. not wanting to be made.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Page 6
Sr mostly talks about when Nick first started in the Outfit. He claims that if Nick would have been honest about how much he wanted to be involved, Sr would have presumably let him only do "that part." This is obviously a reference to the killings and other heavy work that Nick would become involved with over time. "Cheech" is Frank Furio, another 26th Street member who was in Sr's crew for years and died of natural causes sometime in the nineties. Sr says that Furio talked a big game but never directly participated in any murders. He uses this as an example of what Nick could have done. Sr described Nick as "blend[ing] in right in" and never saying "no to nothing." Sr also hints at sending Nick something (money) when they get out.
Page 7
Sr and Jr talk about Nick's mental state and Sr talks about doing time if he has to without putting any "people away" (ratting). He doesn't show confidence in Nick's ability to do so.
Page 8
Jr speaks some more about Nick and mentions that he was "scared," especially when Jarrett came around because he thought he was dangerous. Sr says this is because he has a guilty conscience over some of the work he's done. Jr said that Nick painted Sr in a negative light by saying he killed an innocent woman that time with the "farmer and his wife." This is referring to the murder of Billy Dauber and his wife. Dauber had worked for the Chicago Heights crew under Al Tocco but was suspected of informing on them with the ATF. In 1980, Sr, Jarrett, and several other Outfit hitmen ran the Daubers off the road and shot them to death. Sr responds by saying that Nick knows nothing about that hit because he was not involved.
Page 9
Sr continues by talking about a hit Nick was involved in where an innocent accomplice of an Outfit target was murdered by Nick and DiForti; the "half 'n' half in Cicero" is how Sr refers to it. Richard Ortiz and Arthur Morawski were murdered in 1983 by Nick and DiForti with Sr driving the getaway car.
Sr mostly talks about when Nick first started in the Outfit. He claims that if Nick would have been honest about how much he wanted to be involved, Sr would have presumably let him only do "that part." This is obviously a reference to the killings and other heavy work that Nick would become involved with over time. "Cheech" is Frank Furio, another 26th Street member who was in Sr's crew for years and died of natural causes sometime in the nineties. Sr says that Furio talked a big game but never directly participated in any murders. He uses this as an example of what Nick could have done. Sr described Nick as "blend[ing] in right in" and never saying "no to nothing." Sr also hints at sending Nick something (money) when they get out.
Page 7
Sr and Jr talk about Nick's mental state and Sr talks about doing time if he has to without putting any "people away" (ratting). He doesn't show confidence in Nick's ability to do so.
Page 8
Jr speaks some more about Nick and mentions that he was "scared," especially when Jarrett came around because he thought he was dangerous. Sr says this is because he has a guilty conscience over some of the work he's done. Jr said that Nick painted Sr in a negative light by saying he killed an innocent woman that time with the "farmer and his wife." This is referring to the murder of Billy Dauber and his wife. Dauber had worked for the Chicago Heights crew under Al Tocco but was suspected of informing on them with the ATF. In 1980, Sr, Jarrett, and several other Outfit hitmen ran the Daubers off the road and shot them to death. Sr responds by saying that Nick knows nothing about that hit because he was not involved.
Page 9
Sr continues by talking about a hit Nick was involved in where an innocent accomplice of an Outfit target was murdered by Nick and DiForti; the "half 'n' half in Cicero" is how Sr refers to it. Richard Ortiz and Arthur Morawski were murdered in 1983 by Nick and DiForti with Sr driving the getaway car.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Thanks for breaking down these transcripts, great stuff, truly the best way to read transcripts, 
. You and B do an awesome job of posting cliff notes for us lazy readers, so that we don't have to read the entire transcripts. Thanks to the both of you.......Soliai
. You and B do an awesome job of posting cliff notes for us lazy readers, so that we don't have to read the entire transcripts. Thanks to the both of you.......SoliaiRe: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
No problem, glad to do it. Sorry in advance for any grammatical mistakes, sometimes I rush to get these things finished, particularly if I'm doing them on a lunch break...
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
I echo the "Attaboys" you have rightfully received for your work here, Snakes.
Well done to you and everybody else who goes the extra mile and share great stuff.
It doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated. Grazie!
Well done to you and everybody else who goes the extra mile and share great stuff.
It doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated. Grazie!
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
I'm going to skip the transcripts with Calabrese and the cops. Most of what they talk about is the Fecarotta evidence being pulled and some other stuff about collections. Most of the juicy Outfit material is in the Sr/Jr transcripts.
Feb 19, 1999
https://web.archive.org/web/20120114133 ... ps_1_9.pdf
Page 1
I'm not entirely sure on who they are discussing when the card is mentioned. Best that I can figure is that Sr got a letter (card) from Nick responding to DiForti's suspected cooperation where calls him a "liar" and a "bullshitter." Sr thinks that Nick may have actually meant the opposite in the letter which would be amusing in that he can't keep track of what's code and what isn't. But again, I'm not sure if it's even Nick they are talking about because they switch pretty quickly into talk about "Harry." This is Harry Aleman, a hitman and street tax collector for the Outfit who worked under Joe Ferriola (Joe Negal) as a member of the "Wild Bunch." Ferriola was also Aleman's uncle. Aleman had also served time with Nick in federal prison. Sr relates that Aleman isn't getting anything (money) from anyone because Ferriola is dead and the rest of his crew is in prison. Sr appears to be angered by this and says that the "guy runnin' the show," "Johnny" (John DiFronzo), should be sending his family something until "the guy dies."
Page 2
Sr continued: If DiFronzo were to die than there is "no hope" for Aleman. Sr backtracks a little and admits that he doesn't know for sure that Aleman isn't getting anything as it wouldn't be like DiFronzo to do such a thing, especially if Aleman's wife, Ruth, had requested some help.
Page 3
Sr and Jr discuss "Tony Borse," Tony Borsellino, a former member of the Wild Bunch and Sr's friend. Borsellino was murdered in 1979. Sr and Jr discuss how old he was when he died and Sr says he was 50 because he remembers talking with Nick about it the night that Borsellino was killed.
Page 4
Jr asked if Borsellino's death bothered him and Sr answered in the affirmative; he "loved that guy." Sr even states that he saw Angelo LaPietra to intervene on Borsellino's behalf but to no avail. Sr accuses Butchie (Butch Petrocelli) of orchestrating the murder because he had Ferriola's ear and was allegedly giving him information that Borsellino was skimming from Outfit proceeds. Sr goes on to say that they all stole and cites it as a poor reason for having Borse killed. Jr asks if Butch ever tried to knock Sr down but Sr said he tried but could never win the sitdowns. Sr says that Butch and the Wild Bunch (he specifically names Aleman, Petrocelli, Borsellino, and "Jimmy I"/James Inendino as members) never won any with "us" (26th Street) or "Johnnie Bananas" (John DiFronzo), only against "nobody guys."
Page 5
Sr continues by saying that Butch and the Wild Bunch tried to stick their nose in everything. Sr says that Butch was always a "big mouth" and shares a story about meeting Butch near the Canal where "Toots' hot dog stand is now." "Toots" is Frank "Toots" Caruso, a high-ranking member of the 26th Street crew who would eventually take over after Monteleone's death. Sr talks about running into Butch on the way to a meeting with the "little guy," Ronnie Jarrett.
Page 6
Butch was apparently startled by Sr's appearance and relates the somewhat infamous (at least in Outfit circles) story about Butch trying to score pot for Turk Torello, who was boss of the West Side at that point and was ill with cancer (which would kill him in 1979). Sr also says that Butch was a pot smoker himself. This was probably why Butch was so nervous upon seeing Sr as drugs were traditionally frowned upon in Outfit circles. Sr says that Butch is just trying to score points with Turk whose right-hand man was Ferriola, which is why the Wild Bunch always got a bunch of parlors and sports joints for bookmaking purposes.
Feb 19, 1999
https://web.archive.org/web/20120114133 ... ps_1_9.pdf
Page 1
I'm not entirely sure on who they are discussing when the card is mentioned. Best that I can figure is that Sr got a letter (card) from Nick responding to DiForti's suspected cooperation where calls him a "liar" and a "bullshitter." Sr thinks that Nick may have actually meant the opposite in the letter which would be amusing in that he can't keep track of what's code and what isn't. But again, I'm not sure if it's even Nick they are talking about because they switch pretty quickly into talk about "Harry." This is Harry Aleman, a hitman and street tax collector for the Outfit who worked under Joe Ferriola (Joe Negal) as a member of the "Wild Bunch." Ferriola was also Aleman's uncle. Aleman had also served time with Nick in federal prison. Sr relates that Aleman isn't getting anything (money) from anyone because Ferriola is dead and the rest of his crew is in prison. Sr appears to be angered by this and says that the "guy runnin' the show," "Johnny" (John DiFronzo), should be sending his family something until "the guy dies."
Page 2
Sr continued: If DiFronzo were to die than there is "no hope" for Aleman. Sr backtracks a little and admits that he doesn't know for sure that Aleman isn't getting anything as it wouldn't be like DiFronzo to do such a thing, especially if Aleman's wife, Ruth, had requested some help.
Page 3
Sr and Jr discuss "Tony Borse," Tony Borsellino, a former member of the Wild Bunch and Sr's friend. Borsellino was murdered in 1979. Sr and Jr discuss how old he was when he died and Sr says he was 50 because he remembers talking with Nick about it the night that Borsellino was killed.
Page 4
Jr asked if Borsellino's death bothered him and Sr answered in the affirmative; he "loved that guy." Sr even states that he saw Angelo LaPietra to intervene on Borsellino's behalf but to no avail. Sr accuses Butchie (Butch Petrocelli) of orchestrating the murder because he had Ferriola's ear and was allegedly giving him information that Borsellino was skimming from Outfit proceeds. Sr goes on to say that they all stole and cites it as a poor reason for having Borse killed. Jr asks if Butch ever tried to knock Sr down but Sr said he tried but could never win the sitdowns. Sr says that Butch and the Wild Bunch (he specifically names Aleman, Petrocelli, Borsellino, and "Jimmy I"/James Inendino as members) never won any with "us" (26th Street) or "Johnnie Bananas" (John DiFronzo), only against "nobody guys."
Page 5
Sr continues by saying that Butch and the Wild Bunch tried to stick their nose in everything. Sr says that Butch was always a "big mouth" and shares a story about meeting Butch near the Canal where "Toots' hot dog stand is now." "Toots" is Frank "Toots" Caruso, a high-ranking member of the 26th Street crew who would eventually take over after Monteleone's death. Sr talks about running into Butch on the way to a meeting with the "little guy," Ronnie Jarrett.
Page 6
Butch was apparently startled by Sr's appearance and relates the somewhat infamous (at least in Outfit circles) story about Butch trying to score pot for Turk Torello, who was boss of the West Side at that point and was ill with cancer (which would kill him in 1979). Sr also says that Butch was a pot smoker himself. This was probably why Butch was so nervous upon seeing Sr as drugs were traditionally frowned upon in Outfit circles. Sr says that Butch is just trying to score points with Turk whose right-hand man was Ferriola, which is why the Wild Bunch always got a bunch of parlors and sports joints for bookmaking purposes.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Been out of town for a while so I hope to get this started up again in the next day or so. Stay tuned.
-
BobbyPazzo
- Straightened out
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 11:38 am
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Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Menza in dialect. But you got it right... It's supoosed to be Mezza.Antiliar wrote:This might be useful about "Menza", which should probably be "Mezza": http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/me ... -or-mezza/
Most of you wouldn't be comfortable in my playground.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Much appreciated Snakes! Looking forward to itSnakes wrote:Been out of town for a while so I hope to get this started up again in the next day or so. Stay tuned.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Interesting that he indicates that Turk and the Bull weren't getting along in the late 70s. Wonder what the story was behind that.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
I'll get to that but I'm sure it has something to do with Turk giving preference to "his" guys while basically freezing out LaPietra's. Frank mentions this more than once during the recordings.
Re: Family Secrets Wire Transcripts
Given their history though its weird that Turk threw his weight behind Negal and froze out Lapietra. Wonder if there's something that happened between them personally.