Montreal: Rocco Sollecito has just been shot dead

[OlBlueEyesClub]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Maybe I should've clarified. I'm saying I don't think the murder of Giordano or Sollecito came from either side. So I don't think the murder of Sollecito was retaliation. I think it came from within the Montreal Mafia, but that there's a third party no one knows about who is taking out the old guard and all of those linked to Vito Rizzuto, Calabrian and Sicilian.

I also said in the Giordano thread, how I believed Sollecito was the one attempting to hold things together while Leonardo & Stefano was in prison and that he was still involved in things. And I even called it a theory, yet that was immediately dismissed by a certain member who didn't deal in theories. Despite this theory also being mentioned in a Canadian news article...Looks like I wasn't so far off after all.

[Chucky]

You're losing me. You're saying that neither of these hits came from either side, but yet they come from within the Montreal mafia? Both sides are under the same umbrella. I don't see how you came to the "mystery third party" conclusion of this, there's nothing to indicate that. If anything, based on the information out there, the third party you're alluding to would the greaseballs in Toronto or Hamilton, and potentially New York (the Gambinos).

[OlBlueEyesClub]

There is no "mystery third party". Theres Rizzuto & Stefano, the reported co-bosses, there's Arcadi and Del Balso. And there are other names who have been mentioned liked the Scoppa's (sp) as an example. And its never been mentioned as to what side these guys stand on. There hasn't been anything concrete that supports these other names aligning themselves with the Rizzuto/Sollecito side nor the Arcadi/Del Balso side. If there has been point me to it.

All I'm saying is its too early to claim that this was retaliation for the Giordano hit.

[Chucky]

There is no "mystery third party".

You literally just said this...

I think it came from within the Montreal Mafia, but that there's a third party no one knows about who is taking out the old guard and all of those linked to Vito Rizzuto, Calabrian and Sicilian.

Theres Rizzuto & Stefano, the reported co-bosses, there's Arcadi and Del Balso. And there are other names who have been mentioned liked the Scoppa's (sp) as an example. And its never been mentioned as to what side these guys stand on. There hasn't been anything concrete that supports these other names aligning themselves with the Rizzuto/Sollecito side nor the Arcadi/Del Balso side. If there has been point me to it.

All I'm saying is its too early to claim that this was retaliation for the Giordano hit.

I'm not sure who is aligned with who, I was following this since the Rizzuto kid was clipped in '09, but lost track of who was with who around the time Vito Rizzuto took a dirt nap. Lupara or Felice would know better than me.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

I didn't mean "mysterious third party" when I said that. I meant third party as in someone not linked to either the Rizzuto/Sollecito side nor the Arcadi side, which I just explained. When the Giordano hit happened, there were numerous names mentioned in various articles of Montreal Mafia members , not all of these names were being attributed to being a part of the Rizzuto/Sollecito side nor the Arcadi's. Doesn't that make them a third party?

Hell, maybe the bikers are behind both murders, maybe the street gangs, I think it came from within, but not necessarily the Rizzuto nor the Arcadi camp. Nobody is any more correct than the next person at this point, but why is it so unlikely that this could've come from outside the Montreal Mafia?

[Lupara]

I don't think this is retaliation for Giordano. I now think both murders were messages to show how the Italian Mafia in Montreal being the main facilitators of underworld business out there, is a thing of the past.

Are you insinuating that this didn't come from within the Montreal family? I don't see what you can base that on.

It's most likely internal. This was either a revenge killing for the Giordano murder as Sollecito was the elder statesman of the new leadership (round table), or both murders came from another group that is now trying to exploit the situation. In any case, I'd put my money on people from the former rebel factions being involved in either case.

[Lupara]

There is no "mystery third party".

I'm not sure who is aligned with who, I was following this since the Rizzuto kid was clipped in '09, but lost track of who was with who around the time Vito Rizzuto took a dirt nap. Lupara or Felice would know better than me.

It's been puzzling for everyone, even for the biggest experts out there. Especially because alliances between groups or individuals in the Montreal Mafia often shift according to the circumstances. People who had been on the sidelines or even some who sided with the rebel factions returned to Rizzuto's side when he returned. The same people can now once again turn against the remaining Rizzuto loyalists and then later turn against each other.

[Lupara]

Hell, maybe the bikers are behind both murders, maybe the street gangs, I think it came from within, but not necessarily the Rizzuto nor the Arcadi camp. Nobody is any more correct than the next person at this point, but why is it so unlikely that this could've come from outside the Montreal Mafia?

Because in the history of the Montreal Mafia never has there been a big name killed by people not within or connected with the local Mafia. Bikers, street gangs and the Mafia have never waged war with each other. They've always worked together and acknowledged their spheres of influence and internal affairs. An all-out war between the criminal groups in Montreal will be disastrous for them all. Simply speaking, it's bad for business.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

Just to point out , I already stated my theory, and it isn't that the Bikers or Street Gangs did it. However, as shown in the past , the Montreal Mafia have used bikers and street gang members to carry out hits, Nicolo Jr, for example and Sal Montagna. Montagna's killers weren't Mafia, but were connected to Desjardins, so I guess that counts as a killing from within? But yeah, as I said, I think both murders were done by Montreal Mafia members who don't exactly fall under either the Rizzuto/Sollecito camp nor the Arcadi's. And that's what I mean by third party.

[Lupara]

It's the person that orders a hit who is the one responsible, not the killer itself who is nothing more than an instrument. When a biker or a street gang member is contracted for a hit by a Mafia member or associate, it still counts as coming from within the Montreal Mafia. That's how it works.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

Hence why I said what I said about Desjardins and the Montagna murder. I essentially agree with you. I'm very much aware of how these things work.

[Dwalin2014]

Because in the history of the Montreal Mafia never has there been a big name killed by people not within or connected with the local Mafia. Bikers, street gangs and the Mafia have never waged war with each other. They've always worked together and acknowledged their spheres of influence and internal affairs. An all-out war between the criminal groups in Montreal will be disastrous for them all. Simply speaking, it's bad for business.

One exception: in the 60s Richard Blass and his gang (ethnic French I think) tried to kill Frank Cotroni, some sources say they were chased away by a policeman, while in the book "Motreal's Irish Mafia" by Darcy O'Connor it's said they managed to gun down 2 bodyguards of his before fleeing. And then they proceeded in killing other Italians, with a number of victims not connected to the mafia or any crime at all, one loanshark maybe connected and don't know who else. Later there was retaliation by the mafia, although it was the police that killed Blass at the end.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

Any sources one can use as proof for that incident actually happening how the author claimed, outside of the book based on the Irish Montreal Mob, by what I'm assuming is an Irish author? Not saying it didn't happen, just curious.


Another situation I'd mention is Maxie Bluestein, but I don't know if his guys ever killed any mobsters and if they did, that would be Toronto, not Montreal.


Numerous Canadian articles are attributing both the Giordano & Sollecito murders as a "dismantling of the old guard".

[Dwalin2014]

Any sources one can use as proof for that incident actually happening how the author claimed, outside of the book based on the Irish Montreal Mob, by what I'm assuming is an Irish author? Not saying it didn't happen, just curious.

That 2 Cotroni's bodyguards got gunned down, that is stated only in this 1 book, and here:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... d=14637376

maybe it's not true though, all the other sources I read claim they just wanted to kill Cotroni and were preparing the ambush near his house, but got chased away by the police.

[charliem]

Lorenzo won't be turning anybody into pretzels anytime soon