General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

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PolackTony
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

To revisit Nick C’s claim that Fecarotta had informed him that one of the marks against Spilotro was related to drugs.

At least by the early 80s, the DEA very much believed that Spilotro was pretty heavily involved in narcotics and was investigating him for narcotics trafficking.

Here’s an excerpt from a 1982 DOJ paper done with scholars at the University of Notre Dame summarizing LE intel on organized crime and narcotics trafficking. Note that Federal investigators believed that Spilotro was responsible for an AZ-to-Chicago heroin pipeline, as well as distributing operations in AZ in partnership with the “Colimo-Jerez group” (a network of Mexican gangsters in the Phoenix area who had been involved in narcotics distribution there for decades):

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Of course, Joe Bonanno had also been involved in heroin trafficking in AZ. And the FBI had informants who related to them that Spilotro was meeting with Bonanno in AZ in the 1970s. One can imagine that if Aiuppa had gotten wind of Spilotro meeting with the shelved Bonanno, he would have been displeased (to say the least). Imagine now if Chicago’s leadership had further suspected that Spilotro had been partnered with Bonanno in narcotics (I don’t know that he was, of course, but I really do wonder if he was, and if I wonder this now, people might well have suspected the same back then).
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by NorthBuffalo »

Or he was using the Outfit's money to finance failed ventures. Remember after Spilotro died, Chicago sent guys out there to collect his outstanding loans - I get the sense that Spilotro's money he was loansharking and financing drug deals with was the Outfit's money.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by funkster »

NorthBuffalo wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:24 am Or he was using the Outfit's money to finance failed ventures. Remember after Spilotro died, Chicago sent guys out there to collect his outstanding loans - I get the sense that Spilotro's money he was loansharking and financing drug deals with was the Outfit's money.
Eh, not necessarily. When Sammy flipped the Gambinos sent out their people to collect all the money out on the street that he had. Oftentimes it's simply considered the organizations money when guys get whacked or flip. I would imagine Tony had a lot of money out in his juice rackets.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by NorthBuffalo »

funkster wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 12:18 pm
NorthBuffalo wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:24 am Or he was using the Outfit's money to finance failed ventures. Remember after Spilotro died, Chicago sent guys out there to collect his outstanding loans - I get the sense that Spilotro's money he was loansharking and financing drug deals with was the Outfit's money.
Eh, not necessarily. When Sammy flipped the Gambinos sent out their people to collect all the money out on the street that he had. Oftentimes it's simply considered the organizations money when guys get whacked or flip. I would imagine Tony had a lot of money out in his juice rackets.
These guys aren't loaning out their own money - all loansharks have a 'bank.' No way Spilotro was floating millions on the street in loans and drug deals out of his own pocket - that was money loaned to him. Even Sam DeStefeno had a 'bank' (Paul Ricca).
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Cosmik_Debris »

I got a good chuckle at this...

@jmetr22b
Before his arraignment today, Bobby Dominic, the 71-year-old proprietor of Richard's Bar and alleged hidden partner in sweepstakes gaming businesses, told a court pretrial services officer he's been retired since age 38.
👀

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/1895535869391757511
funkster
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by funkster »

NorthBuffalo wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:19 pm
funkster wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 12:18 pm
NorthBuffalo wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:24 am Or he was using the Outfit's money to finance failed ventures. Remember after Spilotro died, Chicago sent guys out there to collect his outstanding loans - I get the sense that Spilotro's money he was loansharking and financing drug deals with was the Outfit's money.
Eh, not necessarily. When Sammy flipped the Gambinos sent out their people to collect all the money out on the street that he had. Oftentimes it's simply considered the organizations money when guys get whacked or flip. I would imagine Tony had a lot of money out in his juice rackets.
These guys aren't loaning out their own money - all loansharks have a 'bank.' No way Spilotro was floating millions on the street in loans and drug deals out of his own pocket - that was money loaned to him. Even Sam DeStefeno had a 'bank' (Paul Ricca).
Right, it's their money. My point is sending their people out to collect his outstanding loans doesn't necessarily mean anything.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Coloboy »

FWIW, the fact that Nick couldn’t locate the house in Bensenville where the Spilotro thing happened never really raised any red flags for me. Think about it objectively, it was likely a non-descript house, in a standard run of the mill suburb of Chicago, that he had only been to one time 20 years prior to giving his testimony. I’m not surprised he couldn’t spot it.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by funkster »

Coloboy wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:53 pm FWIW, the fact that Nick couldn’t locate the house in Bensenville where the Spilotro thing happened never really raised any red flags for me. Think about it objectively, it was likely a non-descript house, in a standard run of the mill suburb of Chicago, that he had only been to one time 20 years prior to giving his testimony. I’m not surprised he couldn’t spot it.
Not in the least. There's a million houses that look the same out here.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Ivan »

funkster wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:58 pm
Coloboy wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:53 pm FWIW, the fact that Nick couldn’t locate the house in Bensenville where the Spilotro thing happened never really raised any red flags for me. Think about it objectively, it was likely a non-descript house, in a standard run of the mill suburb of Chicago, that he had only been to one time 20 years prior to giving his testimony. I’m not surprised he couldn’t spot it.
Not in the least. There's a million houses that look the same out here.
Possibly a literal million? The Chicagoland burbs are like six million people, right? Divide that by the typical family size and yeah there's a lot. :lol:
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PolackTony
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

Since we're still on the Spilotro subject.

I've commented before that if the outfit had not killed him, there was a strong likelihood that he would have flipped, with disastrous consequences for a bunch of guys. He was facing trial on Federal charges at the time of his murder and if he felt that he was backed into a corner, with the law on one side and the mob on the other... This is exactly the sort of situation where a guy rolls.

On that note, it caught my attention that back in 1970, an FBI informant opined that Spilotro was not the kind of guy who could stand up to a long prison sentence. While we know that Spilotro was an accomplished killer, he was also a guy who never actually did any real time (got off acquitted or with slaps on the wrist for everything that he got pinched for), so he was never really tested when it came to this. The identity of this informant is unknown, and it could just be some hater talking stuff, but it stood out to me as it's not something that I typically see an informant saying about a guy.

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Another interesting point is that in 1978, Jimmy Fratianno had told the FBI that Spilotro had made an attempt to pay him off to keep him from talking to the Feds (unsurprisingly, Fratianno seems to have tried to collect the money via his attorney while still cooperating lol). Consequent to this, the DOJ Strikeforce based in SF that was using Fratianno as a witness for the murder of Frank Bompensiero issued subpoenas to Spilotro and several redacted individuals to appear before a Grand Jury that was probably intending to bring charges against Spilotro for attempting to tamper with a Federal witness. No idea if Chicago ordered Spilotro to buy off Fratianno, or if he was doing this on his own, but one can imagine that if this had been his own plan, it could have been another big issue for him back home.

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Going back to Spilotro's crew assignment prior to c.1975 (when Bompensiero reported that Spilotro reported to Lombardo), there, of course, are no quality sources that can clear that matter up with any certainty.

FBI informants and extensive surveillance of Spilotro in the 1960s and early 1970s put him in very frequent contact with the Buccieri crew -- and, in particular, with Turk Torello, who often visited Spilotro's home in Oak Park, though Spilotro was also frequently seen in public meeting with Buccieri, Torello, and Ferriola, as well as spending a lot of time at the Family Amusement Center in Cicero, a front for one of the Buccieri crew's major loansharking operations). Recall again that Frank Cullotta claimed that after an early stint working as a collector for Sam DeStefano, Spilotro became an associate under Torello, sometime around ~1960.

Spilotro was also frequently in the company of Alderisio, as I'm sure we all know. The FBI referred to Spilotro as the "heir apparent" to Alderisio, but in one memo made a point of clarifying that this was not meant to be a statement relating to Alderisio's "position in organized crime", but rather that informant sources had identified Spilotro (along with Obie Frabotta) as having been designated by Alderisio to assume responsibility over a number of business ventures and investments that he controlled when he went to prison (and it's clear that Spilotro was involved in multiple business ventures with both Alderisio and Irving Weiner during this period). The primary source that the FBI had for this -- and it's pretty clear that this source, as with most of the sources in Spilotro's file, was not an LCN member -- further noted that from the interactions that he witnessed, Spilotro and Alderisio seemed to have been of equal status, as he witnessed heated arguments between the two men (he did not describe Alderisio as having been the boss of or in command of Spilotro or anything like this). Hard to really make any statements given the vague info and poor quality of sources here, but the overall picture is consistent with Spilotro being a partner of Alderisio, who assumed interest over some of their ventures when Alderisio was imprisoned and then died, but this doesn't prove that Spilotro was assigned to report to Alderisio (and, we should also note that we don't even know that Alderisio was even a captain at any point in time, as in 1969 Frank Bompensiero, based on a meeting with Alderisio, reported that he understood Alderisio to have been a solider).

In 1979, Red Wemette reported that Frank Schweihs had told him that Spilotro was in a lot of trouble and that Aiuppa wanted to have him take over for the deceased Torello; not as a reward, but in order to get him away from Vegas and keep a close eye on him. So it's interesting to note that in 1971, an informant reported to the FBI that Spilotro and Torello had become bitter "rivals" at that time, as they were both vying for some position of "leadership" that was opening up. Buccieri died of cancer in 1973 and we know that Torello succeeded him as captain, so if the informant was correct here, Buccieri's health may have already been declining at this point, and he presumably wound up tapping Torello to serve as an acting captain for him before succumbing to his illness. 1971 is also the year, of course, that Spilotro packed up and left for Vegas, after getting acquitted on local gambling charges for running a book in the City of Chicago (and for assaulting a CPD cop who busted his operation lol).

The question as to whether Spilotro was "sent" by Chicago's leadership to look over Vegas, or to assist in protecting or mediating conflicts for Rosenthal, or if he just went out there to escape problems he was having in Chicago, remains. FBI sources differed in the 1970s as to the importance of Spilotro in Vegas and the clout or status that he, in fact, enjoyed. But there's also a lot of real estate between "boss of Vegas" and "knucklehead thug", and I believe that Spilotro's actual situation was somewhere in the middle. I think we can safely presume that Spilotro himself probably thought of himself as the former, however. In the late 1960s, a Chicago informant told the FBI that Spilotro was going around saying that he wanted to be boss of the outfit one day, things like this. We know that Fecarotta was alleged to have gone around shooting his mouth off in a similar fashion before he was killed (along with the charges of sexual impropriety also leveled at both men), so I think that a guy who was prone to doing this was basically on a collision course with the leadership of the Family (the type of guy who's unable to humble himself to the organization, even for the strategic purposes of achieving his own goals).
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Patrickgold »

Cosmik_Debris wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:31 pm I got a good chuckle at this...

@jmetr22b
Before his arraignment today, Bobby Dominic, the 71-year-old proprietor of Richard's Bar and alleged hidden partner in sweepstakes gaming businesses, told a court pretrial services officer he's been retired since age 38.
👀

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/1895535869391757511
I find it odd that Scott B can only put out a generic article about the Bobby Dominic indictment when this story is a lot bigger than what’s being reported. Obviously whatever sources he has is not very good.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by OcSleeper »

Don't insult the board like that Patrick, we all try our best😂
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by 7digits »

Patrickgold wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 4:12 pm
Cosmik_Debris wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:31 pm I got a good chuckle at this...

@jmetr22b
Before his arraignment today, Bobby Dominic, the 71-year-old proprietor of Richard's Bar and alleged hidden partner in sweepstakes gaming businesses, told a court pretrial services officer he's been retired since age 38.
👀

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/1895535869391757511
I find it odd that Scott B can only put out a generic article about the Bobby Dominic indictment when this story is a lot bigger than what’s being reported. Obviously whatever sources he has is not very good.
If you know it’s much bigger than what’s being reported why don’t you share the information with us instead of hating on Scott who’s giving us the chance to interact with Mob Royalty like Nove Tocco and soon to bring on others on Patreon from around the country from New York, Chicago,Philly,New England, KC and the west coast. For mob buffs like me this is the dream on Patreon. We’re getting mafia history here up close like never before
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Patrickgold »

7digits wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 11:58 pm
Patrickgold wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 4:12 pm
Cosmik_Debris wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:31 pm I got a good chuckle at this...

@jmetr22b
Before his arraignment today, Bobby Dominic, the 71-year-old proprietor of Richard's Bar and alleged hidden partner in sweepstakes gaming businesses, told a court pretrial services officer he's been retired since age 38.
👀

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/1895535869391757511
I find it odd that Scott B can only put out a generic article about the Bobby Dominic indictment when this story is a lot bigger than what’s being reported. Obviously whatever sources he has is not very good.
If you know it’s much bigger than what’s being reported why don’t you share the information with us instead of hating on Scott who’s giving us the chance to interact with Mob Royalty like Nove Tocco and soon to bring on others on Patreon from around the country from New York, Chicago,Philly,New England, KC and the west coast. For mob buffs like me this is the dream on Patreon. We’re getting mafia history here up close like never before
Hardly call a rat associate like Nove Tocco mob royalty. Not saying it’s not interesting but I’m just a little disappointed he did only a generic piece on Dominic and it was a day or two after it hit the papers.

The bigger story is that Bobby Dominic is higher up in the Outfit then some of the guys he has written about and controls a multi million dollar operation (Sweep Stake Machines) among other things.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Coloboy »

I would tend to agree that given the recent GR focus on the Cicero crew’s socializing and instagram accounts, the article seemed a little underwhelming. By all accounts this seems to be a fairly high dollar outfit bust directly tied to Bobby D. I think it’s a safe assumption he wasn’t the only “investor” in these businesses. Sweepstakes machines are classic outfit stuff.

Side note- was back in Chicago for a family visit this weekend. Those sweepstakes/video gambling machines are everywhere. Crazy how popular they have become. Some big $$ being made.
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