Family secrets case wipe out Chicago

[Patrickgold]

IMO, the only loss was James Marcello and just the "aura" of the Outfit. Nobody knows what was really going on with Joe Lombardo so his imprisonment could have been meaningless, Frank Schweihs was still gonna die in 2008 anyway, Frank Calabrese would have only been on the street for a few years before he died in 2012, Nick Calabrese wasn't that important. Outside of Marcello they were going to lose those guys anyway so how bad was it really?

I think of out of all the Outfit guys in the early 2000s, Calabrese and Marcello had the greatest aspirations to make the Outfit bigger and stronger, even though they were in prison. Even though Calabrese died in 2012 from cancer, possibly bc he was being treated in prison and is not known for the best doctors, I think 10 years of them on the street together really could have changed the dynamic of the Outfit and I truly believe the Outfit would be more of a force if they were given that opportunity. That’s just my personal opinion. Family secrets hurt the Outfit but definitely was not the nail in the coffin. They are still around and kicking but more in the dark.

It’s hard to narrow down what hurt the Outfit the most. All the big indictments hurt but did not kill. Infelice indictment was huge in that it took 5 guys (Marino, Salerno, Infice, Delaurentis, and Bellavia), that were in my opinion boss material, off the streets for a very long time. Even though they were all released at an old age, except Infelice who died in prison, they were too old to be that active.

[JeremyTheJew]

I’m sure many things we discuss are gonna be gone over multiple times - u guys get so offended or holier then thou sometimes over weird shit…..

Sorry I don’t even know what Chicago thread it’s in - maybe a link would help out a little better ..,, especially since it was just discussed you’d think it wouldn’t be a issue to just post it up

We talking about the “General Outfit Dumping Ground” post?????

[Snakes]

I’m sure many things we discuss are gonna be gone over multiple times - u guys get so offended or holier then thou sometimes over weird shit…..

Sorry I don’t even know what Chicago thread it’s in - maybe a link would help out a little better ..,, especially since it was just discussed you’d think it wouldn’t be a issue to just post it up

We talking about the “General Outfit Dumping Ground” post?????

I guess the issue is you've been here years and we've been over these things many times in those years. It just gets tiring after a while, that's all.

[JeremyTheJew]

….. and after actually seeing this “Chicago post” ;


Are you guys fucking kidding me ??

U got all in ur feelings because I didn’t read a 446 page thread titled DUMPING GROUND!?!?!?

C Mon guys - I know there’s “levels to this shit” but shut the fuck with the attitude about not finding something in a FOUR HUNDRED FORTY FOUR PAGE POST!

[JeremyTheJew]

I’m sure many things we discuss are gonna be gone over multiple times - u guys get so offended or holier then thou sometimes over weird shit…..

Sorry I don’t even know what Chicago thread it’s in - maybe a link would help out a little better ..,, especially since it was just discussed you’d think it wouldn’t be a issue to just post it up

We talking about the “General Outfit Dumping Ground” post?????

I guess the issue is you've been here years and we've been over these things many times in those years. It just gets tiring after a while, that's all.
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So i really stay away from any and all Chicago threads bc I don’t know as much about them and they can get confusing

[PolackTony]

No one is getting “holier than thou” or “all in their feelings” here.

My above comment about having just recently discussed these questions (for the umpteenth time, BTW) was in reference to a recent back and forth that we had on the main Chicago thread, where we discussed the state of evidence on Chicago’s historical membership tallies and also touched on the perennial confusion around Chicago’s non-Italian associates. I was able to find this right away just now using the search function, so if you’re genuinely interested in these questions, here you go. We really don’t need to have another thread talking about the same stuff that we already have a thread for (nothing particular to Chicago there either, just like we don’t need multiple threads discussing the same Buffalo arguments etc., or any other Family).

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[Coloboy]

As with most federal indictments, the feds love to say "we wiped out the outfit" with this case. Or "they are on their last legs". There is certainly some truth to that, but it's also overstating the reality.

Family Secrets was a blow no doubt. Objectively they took out....

Jimmy Marcello- Day to day boss. A very motivated and dangerous guy. However, several senior leaders were still on the street. (Difronzo, Andriacchi, Tornabene, and the soon to be released Solly D and Jimmy Inendino). Guys like that can keep the thing in one piece when a boss goes down.

Joey Lombardo- By all accounts, this probably wasn't that critical. Some sources have him as actually being shelved by this time for various reasons. He was a very well known name, and this always felt more like a trophy for the FBI then actually damaging any real rackets that were going on.

Calabrese brothers and a few of their underlings- A small crew within a larger outfit crew (26th st). Frank Sr. was a big earner, and this probably hurt some pocketbooks. But again, they were just soldiers, guys who earned and kicked up.

That's really it. Everyone else was still out there doing their thing. There have been enough smaller indictments since family secrets to tell you that there were plenty of guys that were not publicly known at the time, including most of the cicero crew, the grand ave crew, and some of the Elmwood Park crew.

It was a big case, but did not "end' the outfit. As Snakes said above, the damage to the outfit was much greater with the cases in the 80's and early 90's. Those were the ones that really broke the back of the 800 pound gorilla that controlled vast elements of the cities resources, politics, and judicial system. Those decades were the ones that took the Outfit from that level, to what it is now. A small, niche, criminal group that makes money where they can, but doesn't "control" anything on a large scale.

[NorthBuffalo]

No one is getting “holier than thou” or “all in their feelings” here.

My above comment about having just recently discussed these questions (for the umpteenth time, BTW) was in reference to a recent back and forth that we had on the main Chicago thread, where we discussed the state of evidence on Chicago’s historical membership tallies and also touched on the perennial confusion around Chicago’s non-Italian associates. I was able to find this right away just now using the search function, so if you’re genuinely interested in these questions, here you go. We really don’t need to have another thread talking about the same stuff that we already have a thread for (nothing particular to Chicago there either, just like we don’t need multiple threads discussing the same Buffalo arguments etc., or any other Family).

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Not for nothing, but I've been on the wrong end of those multiple times - and it comes off as if I'm personally offending someone or tarnishing their research if I repeat something someone else already said or ask a question someone thinks they answered already, which is why people get this way with you guys. I've read through many of those Outfit pages and know how much time some guys put in here which is great - but I also think some of the best posts were from Chicago guys who haven't posted here in years on entirely separate threads. What is missing in Chicago is the real street knowledge - I love reading Ridgewood's post bc he's authentic and has all of these interesting back stories you would never know from 'studying.' I'm not sure that person exists for Chicago.

[Teflon Dom]

Can't believe he said "winning streaks" wtf...LOL