boss of bosses

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

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East Bronx
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by East Bronx »

Pete wrote:
East Bronx wrote:The smarter bosses today are content to keep their own families earning and out of prison. Unless there's some overlap (like the Luccheses and the Genovese in the Bronx, for example), I can't imagine one boss caring too much about what another boss is up to.
I disagree every family has members in every borough of ny they're crossing paths and working deals together all the time cooperation with each other only makes sense
I said "unless there's some overlap," which there clearly is in a city like New York. And I gave the Lucchese and Genovese families as the example. Because if you know anything about their history here in the Bronx, they may as well be the same family. Even today. ESPECIALLY where construction is concerned.

But maybe I should clarify just a little. I meant the Five Families as a whole (who clearly overlap in New York City), don't care what's going on in places like Detroit or Chicago today. And years ago that wasn't the case. When I think of The Commission, I think of the old nationwide commission, with meetings in Palm Springs and Vegas. That's over, and it's not coming back.

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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Pete »

Five Felonies wrote:as far as carlo was concerned, a term like "first amongst equals" fits much better than "boss of bosses" and other similar terms. as far as the present day, "most influential" seems appropriate.
Agreed the media terminology can get annoying like when they call gotti the boss of bosses or my favorite james marcello was the front boss yeah because anyone is gonna say hey let me pretend to be the boss to save your ass from going to jail and I'll live out my days in supermax lol
I agree with phat,I love those old fucks and he's right.we all got some cosa nostra in us.I personnely love the life.I think we on the forum would be the ultimate crew! - camerono
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Antiliar
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Antiliar »

Pete wrote:
Five Felonies wrote:as far as carlo was concerned, a term like "first amongst equals" fits much better than "boss of bosses" and other similar terms. as far as the present day, "most influential" seems appropriate.
Agreed the media terminology can get annoying like when they call gotti the boss of bosses or my favorite james marcello was the front boss yeah because anyone is gonna say hey let me pretend to be the boss to save your ass from going to jail and I'll live out my days in supermax lol
I think some people call Marcello a front boss because they didn't understand his relationship to DiFronzo. Marcello was like the Giancana and DiFronzo was the Ricca or Accardo.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Angelo Santino »

At the root, the mafia is a social network and your top 3 ranks are guided by who is occupying them. The relationships between Castellano and Dellacroce, Salerno and Gigante, Marcello and Di Fronzo etc are all going to be different. Being "boss" and "underboss" and "Consig" entitles people to certain privileges but these individuals have to find a way to amicably work together. Castellano/Dellacroce had their own wings, Salerno deferred to Gigante, Di Fronzo was looking to step back and apparently more than happy to let Marcello move up. Every situation is different and some people in certain ranks at various times have been considered to have been lame ducks, be it Salerno, Frank Martines or Tommy Gioeli. They had to have contributed in some way to have kept those positions, even if it was being someone's lackey.
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East Bronx
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by East Bronx »

Chris Christie wrote:Every situation is different and some people in certain ranks at various times have been considered to have been lame ducks, be it Salerno, Frank Martines or Tommy Gioeli. They had to have contributed in some way to have kept those positions, even if it was being someone's lackey.
Of course. It's like when you say that Fat Tony was a front boss, and people on the boards get insulted. Like you're implying that he was just a stooge. And nothing could be further from the truth. Because being the second most powerful guy in a family doesn't make you some kind of pussy.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." ---- Rounders.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Angelo Santino »

East Bronx wrote:The smarter bosses today are content to keep their own families earning and out of prison. Unless there's some overlap (like the Luccheses and the Genovese in the Bronx, for example), I can't imagine one boss caring too much about what another boss is up to.
Agreed. That's why there has not been a functioning commission since 1985. The Ruling Body known as the Commission, went through several changes in history, the eras I would separate them by 1931-1957, 1961-1975, 1975-1985. The last era was a boy's club for NY's top bosses to engage and collect in white collar crimes, Chicago was officially still on it but they went their separate way at some point. Post-Gambino the Commission dealt mostly with NY Affairs, it had nowhere near the scope that it did in previous eras. Gravano quoted Gigante as saying that commission meetings were becoming irrelevant as they dealt less with LCN affairs and more with day-to-day financial affairs which the Chin didn't believe merited such a prestigious conference.

I say it ended in 1985 because the next generation of bosses were not meeting and coordinating affairs as frequently. Cafaro even said the new generation of bosses would act "on autopilot, Chin has his family, John has his, but the respect is there." When you read Gravano, he makes mention that after Castellano the Gambinos sent word to the Genovese that they expected their seat on the Commission, but after 1985 coordination all but ended. The next alleged Commission meeting was in 1987 in a parking lot, the next one was in 2000 or 2001. If you go back to 1931, the original Commission members presided over the entire national crime syndicate, in 1957 it got broken up and fractured, in 1975 they reduced membership to NY and Chicago according to Fratianno by way of Roselli, after that it become a NY crony system, and by the time leadership went to the Chin (officially), Gotti , Amuso, none of these guys were building a bridges beyond anything but their own personal ambitions at the local level, what Cafaro predicted became true. If their position as boss deemed them Commission members, they never enjoyed the powers that former leaders took for granted. A meeting between bosses here and there is a bastardization. Joe Bonanno is flicking his hand under his chin from beyond the grave and grabbing his crouch NY Fuckka You Style. Playing hockey every season and attending a game once every 10 years can't be viewed as the same thing. But to the contemporary bosses' credit, they can't meet anymore and get away with it. If google can record the entire world streetmap and upload it, imagine the powers that the feds have at their disposal. The degradation of the commission from a national criminal ruling arbitrator to New York situated white collar scams (Windows case, gas tax) to contemporary (short term) NY bosses meeting rarely with no national impact can be fully accredited fully to the FBI's aggressive assault, which has been a successful endeavor with great rewards on their end. They made the case in the 1950's that they were the best equipped to fight "the evil enemy within" communisn and national organized crime "the mafia" and as a result, the once prestigious FBN's influence declined and the FBI grew to become the powerhouse they are today. It didn't matter that most of the FBI's knowledge of organized crime came from the FBN, they were ground-breaking in their day to dust off one of their many informants (Valachi) and present him to the public. The FBN and SS before them never contemplated a televised marketing strategy for federal funding, so the SS went from a national agency to presidential security and the FBN now stands for the Fox Business Network. In short if the FBI is Alexander Bell, the FBN is Antonio Meucci "and he got robbed! And everyone knows that."

NY Mafia Leadership 1900-2012 (more or less) Add Nicola Taranto's name before Giuseppe Morello's, and that's the entire list of known Boss of Bosses. Taranto was convicted in 1896. Prior to him we don't know and its possible someone could have interim'd between Taranto from after 1896 until whenever Morello got the title, he returned in NYC from Texas in 1897. Prior to Taranto, it could have been Gaetano Russo who had history in New Orleans before moving to New York in the 1870's, he's been cited as NY's Mafia founder but that's questionable. Mafiosi were in NY as early as 1850, but there most likely wasn't enough members to warrant a Family until after the 1860's. Before 1873, the Mafia's American capital was New Orleans, whether or not they had such a rank would be purely guesswork on our (Rick, Lennert, myself) end. It get's hazier the farther back you go when less resources are available. Were it not for the Civil War, New Orleans would have continued being America's main metropolis and New York, unquestionably, would have taken a different trajectory. The great migration may not have impacted NY as growth might have stayed exasperated in the South. Between 1870/1880, the US' economic world view shifted from the Deep Dixie South to the American Northeast and NYC became the expatriate Italo American epicenter (among many other things). In other words, East Bronx, were it not for the Civil War your handle might have been French Quarter.

And going back even further, Sicily, New Orleans and Buenos Aires had a triangular citrus commerce trade. It's a non-OC story, pretty amazing piece of forgotten history. Given that the Mafia was in Sicily, New Orleans and at some point Buenos Aires, I personally wonder what influence they had on that. In Sicily, the mafia's hold on the citrus industry declined the profits and crashed the industry (which is when California took the citrus helm), so I think it's very possible that the Mafia was a significant international presence prior to 1870 through the triangular citrus trade. But who gives a fuck?
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Note: Based mostly on Joe and Bill Bonanno..

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Note: New Info has come out that Crea is not the official boss and Dan is now official. Despite the errors, it's a "who's who." Pogo indirectly assisted with 80% of the (correct) stuff.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Angelo Santino »

And sorry if that was too long-winded. I tend to fall deep into a rabbit hole discussing ancient history that no one asked for in modern topics. The third chart, which (tries to) cover confirmed position, doesn't show it lacks is members territory which is important in associations. The Lucchese and Genovese share Harlem/Bronx/Jersey, the Gambinos/Colombos share Brooklyn and Staten Island so those groups are most linked. It wouldn't be too unplausible in the future that, as these groups dwindle in size, you see them merge into 2 clusters, regressing back to their roots. Just my opinion but it won't happen in the next 10-15 years.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Pogo The Clown »

Chris Christie wrote:The FBN and SS before them never contemplated a televised marketing strategy for federal funding, so the SS went from a national agency to presidential security and the FBN now stands for the Fox Business Network. In short if the FBI is Alexander Bell, the FBN is Antonio Meucci "and he got robbed! And everyone knows that."
In other words, East Bronx, were it not for the Civil War your handle might have been French Quarter.

You really do have a way with words. :mrgreen:


Pogo
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by HairyKnuckles »

Pogo The Clown wrote:

You really do have a way with words. :mrgreen:


Pogo
He does and he´s an excellent poster. Chris, don´t feel sorry for falling deep into a "rabbit hole" when discussing ancient history. We all love to read your contributions to this site. And the well researched article by you, Rick and Lennert is an excellent one. (I have said this before, but it needs to be stressed out more than once.)
There you have it, never printed before.
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Hailbritain
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Hailbritain »

Who is dan de manna ??
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Chicago »

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Last edited by Chicago on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Pogo The Clown »

Hailbritain wrote:Who is dan de manna ??

It's an inside joke. A reference to an old poster. :lol:


Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
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East Bronx
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by East Bronx »

HairyKnuckles wrote:
Pogo The Clown wrote:

You really do have a way with words. :mrgreen:


Pogo
He does and he´s an excellent poster. Chris, don´t feel sorry for falling deep into a "rabbit hole" when discussing ancient history. We all love to read your contributions to this site. And the well researched article by you, Rick and Lennert is an excellent one. (I have said this before, but it needs to be stressed out more than once.)
You suck, Chrstie :mrgreen:.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." ---- Rounders.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Angelo Santino »

East Bronx wrote:
HairyKnuckles wrote:
Pogo The Clown wrote:

You really do have a way with words. :mrgreen:


Pogo
He does and he´s an excellent poster. Chris, don´t feel sorry for falling deep into a "rabbit hole" when discussing ancient history. We all love to read your contributions to this site. And the well researched article by you, Rick and Lennert is an excellent one. (I have said this before, but it needs to be stressed out more than once.)
You suck, Chrstie :mrgreen:.
And you swallow when you should rinse and gargle.

But honestly, you've been around Harlem and the Bronx for much of your life, you've seen first hand the slow and gradual decline of things. You look at the 80's, 90's, 00's, '10, what's your own take on where things are going? Lower Manhattan is gone and half of Brooklyn moved to Staten Island. Back in the 1970's it was 'common knowledge' that the mob would never die, no one boldly states that in NYC anymore. No right or wrong (unless you think I'm wrong) but what's your take on the last few decades and where do you see it going?
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Angelo Santino
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Re: boss of bosses

Post by Angelo Santino »

HairyKnuckles wrote:
Pogo The Clown wrote:

You really do have a way with words. :mrgreen:


Pogo
He does and he´s an excellent poster. Chris, don´t feel sorry for falling deep into a "rabbit hole" when discussing ancient history. We all love to read your contributions to this site. And the well researched article by you, Rick and Lennert is an excellent one. (I have said this before, but it needs to be stressed out more than once.)
Thanks. I do try and keep myself in check because I've done that in the past, gone into current NY and Philly threads and start connecting things to shit from 100 years ago. It has a place but not in a thread where people are wanting to discuss modern/current things. I slip up every now and then.
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