General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

I think it is evident that the EP crew is still around and it was bad info that said they were disbanded or absorbed. The question is who is the leader. The Mandel case and this Cassano case tells me they are still a force. Gary gags very well could be or Tony Dote. I know Dote and Cassano do not like each other and do not get along. Gary gags got his start working for Giancana driving him and his girlfriends around . He has been around for a long time. I believe he is still the owner of Luke’s but is not involved in day to day operations of it. He does spend most of his time in Naples, Fl so he might be removed from operations now.

Fratto's still officially in charge according to Scott's sources; FWIW they have told him the crew is still around, Fratto is semi-retired but still the nominal boss, the crew is going to be rolled into Cicero when Fratto's gone (so it will stop being a separate crew "for real,"), and that Dote, Abbinati, and Mitria are the top guys.

Plausible enough, I guess? Not sure if we covered it already but he also had an article up about how there were like half a dozen CIs in the crew in the 2010s, according to court filings.

Fratto being boss is plausible. I don’t buy they will disband when he dies. Makes no sense to me. A crew is absorbed when there is hardly anyone left. EP has some heavy players still left.

Fratto may or not may not be involved today. I could see it just as easily being that he’s shelved or sidelined as him being a captain at this point (neither scenario would really surprise me). He could also just be a member in good standing and his “crew” that Scott has reported is just a crew of associates reporting to a soldier. One thing to note is that Fratto hasn’t come up in any of this recent EP stuff as of yet. Maybe because they don’t have anything to tie him to any of it, but if Scott somehow knows that Fratto is the “boss of EP”, and the Feds have clearly been on EP like white on rice, wouldn’t they be aware of this also? He also the only one who is a publically confirmed LCN member, so far as I’m aware, so you’d think they’d be keen to have him in there to further argue that this is an LCN entity (thinking of like the affidavits we discussed before that the FBI submitted for the Frontier case last Spring). Just raising the question, as I don’t think any of us here really know.

Good observation Tony. It is my personal opinion that Fratto might be in admin position. If he is shelved, guys that are still involved like to hang out with him. Carparelli, Rainone, Spina and many other associates hang out with him every week at Capri. That’s just a fact and if anyone doesn’t believe it then go down there on a weekend. Not hard to find them. Usually when you are shelved, you are disowned by other members and associates. That being said, he could have taken a note from DiFronzo and insulated himself from street level operations.

Good point and you are of course correct that if guys are fraternizing with Fratto, he probably isn’t shelved. My own assumption has been that he is still active as a member in the organization, though how he fits into the structure I don’t think is clear. He could be in charge of the same EP crew as Cassano and Gagliano. He could be in charge of a different crew (the formal crew structure today could well be different than what it was in the past, and just because the FBI is currently talking about an “Elmwood Park crew”, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is the same entity exactly as the past Cerone/DiFronzo crew, though it might be. Eg, it could have been split into two crews at some point, a totally new crew could have been formed and given to some guys, etc). Or he could be a senior soldier who is the “boss” of a bunch of associates, as many made guys of course are. Hard to say and my take with these things is typically we need more info to make more educated guesses.

Having said that, you’re actually around these guys and your opinion counts for something with these things and is worth considering, even if it’s just your personal opinion.

Regarding Fratto insulating himself from stuff, one would certainly expect so if he is still somebody. I’ll cite again the former Lucchese associate that I spoke with, the one who worked in Chicago in the late 90s/2000s. He said that made guys in Chicago are “like ghosts, they won’t talk to or deal with anybody but their own people”. We can see this with the Pete DiFronzo/Mickey Davis thing, where an order to throw a beating on RJ Serpico went through a buffer chain of 5 guys.

[PolackTony]

Off the top of my head I can't think of a reason why Fratto would even be shelved to begin with, unless I missed something.

There were some rumors floated previously that Fratto was a nobody today, which could be consistent with being shelved but also consistent with being a member in good standing who is sidelined or otherwise removed from things. Patrick says that a bunch of guys fraternize with Fratto at Capri and I believe Patrick, so I think Fratto’s nobody status has probably been overstated and that he is likely somebody, but how big of a somebody, and how he would fit in with other somebodies, is a question.

[OcSleeper]

Thanks Tony, I looked for stuff about that but couldn't find anything, though I did find a post with you talking about Elmwood Park and literals rats (as in, the rodent) in the same post.

You gotta pay attention, I just linked that to you specifically yesterday

[Patrickgold]

Off the top of my head I can't think of a reason why Fratto would even be shelved to begin with, unless I missed something.

There were some rumors floated previously that Fratto was a nobody today, which could be consistent with being shelved but also consistent with being a member in good standing who is sidelined or otherwise removed from things. Patrick says that a bunch of guys fraternize with Fratto at Capri and I believe Patrick, so I think Fratto’s nobody status has probably been overstated and that he is likely somebody, but how big of a somebody, and how he would fit in with other somebodies, is a question.

Thanks Tony, I appreciate it. That means something coming from you.

I believe the rumors of Fratto being shelved was brought by Fosco who claims DiFronzo and him had a falling out and DiFronzo shelved him. That very much could be true but with DiFronzo and his brother Pete dead, maybe he came back into the mix and picked up where he left off. As Tony said, the information is not there to make a determination at this time.

[Snakes]

Off the top of my head I can't think of a reason why Fratto would even be shelved to begin with, unless I missed something.

There were some rumors floated previously that Fratto was a nobody today, which could be consistent with being shelved but also consistent with being a member in good standing who is sidelined or otherwise removed from things. Patrick says that a bunch of guys fraternize with Fratto at Capri and I believe Patrick, so I think Fratto’s nobody status has probably been overstated and that he is likely somebody, but how big of a somebody, and how he would fit in with other somebodies, is a question.

Thanks Tony, I appreciate it. That means something coming from you.

I believe the rumors of Fratto being shelved was brought by Fosco who claims DiFronzo and him had a falling out and DiFronzo shelved him. That very much could be true but with DiFronzo and his brother Pete dead, maybe he came back into the mix and picked up where he left off. As Tony said, the information is not there to make a determination at this time.

Rick's guy also said Fratto was kind of on his own with a bunch of wannabes running around for him. I think we kind of ran with that and it evolved into the possibility of Fratto being on the shelf, but as Tony said, if he was truly on the shelf he (presumably) wouldn't be able to interact with who you've seen him with.

[Ivan]

Rick's guy also said Fratto was kind of on his own with a bunch of wannabes running around for him.

OK that's really interesting because that's exactlywhat Scott has been reporting about Fratto. Has kind of a separate "family within a family" of himself and a bunch of associates with "an unusual amount of autonomy." I thought that sounded a little weird when I read it on GR and kind of dismissed it but there might be something to it if Rick's source corroborates it (I went through and tried to find and read all Rick's old posts about his source a few days ago but missed this tidbit somehow, so thanks).

Here's the paywalled story for this with a GR subscription: https://gangsterreport.com/keeping-the- ... loyalists/

[Snakes]

Rick's guy also said Fratto was kind of on his own with a bunch of wannabes running around for him.

OK that's really interesting because that's exactlywhat Scott has been reporting about Fratto. Has kind of a separate "family within a family" of himself and a bunch of associates with "an unusual amount of autonomy." I thought that sounded a little weird when I read it on GR and kind of dismissed it but there might be something to it if Rick's source corroborates it (I went through and tried to find and read all Rick's old posts about his source a few days ago but missed this tidbit somehow, so thanks).

Here's the paywalled story for this with a GR subscription: https://gangsterreport.com/keeping-the- ... loyalists/

Maybe I'm misremembering, but Rick can clear it up if he comes in. I may be getting that confused with the Scott B article.

[InCamelot]

Regarding Fratto insulating himself from stuff, one would certainly expect so if he is still somebody. I’ll cite again the former Lucchese associate that I spoke with, the one who worked in Chicago in the late 90s/2000s. He said that made guys in Chicago are “like ghosts, they won’t talk to or deal with anybody but their own people”. We can see this with the Pete DiFronzo/Mickey Davis thing, where an order to throw a beating on RJ Serpico went through a buffer chain of 5 guys.

Tony, may I ask if you know the Lucchese crew the associate worked for? And whether he is Italian? Thanks.

[Antiliar]

Rick's guy also said Fratto was kind of on his own with a bunch of wannabes running around for him.

OK that's really interesting because that's exactlywhat Scott has been reporting about Fratto. Has kind of a separate "family within a family" of himself and a bunch of associates with "an unusual amount of autonomy." I thought that sounded a little weird when I read it on GR and kind of dismissed it but there might be something to it if Rick's source corroborates it (I went through and tried to find and read all Rick's old posts about his source a few days ago but missed this tidbit somehow, so thanks).

Here's the paywalled story for this with a GR subscription: https://gangsterreport.com/keeping-the- ... loyalists/

Maybe I'm misremembering, but Rick can clear it up if he comes in. I may be getting that confused with the Scott B article.

Yup, that's what my guy told me. Fratto is sidelined, not shelved. If I wrote shelved previously it was in an unofficial sense. He still associates with people but is effectively on his own. He said the LoBues run EP now. That doesn't necessarily mean Matteo LoBue is a capo. He doesn't know his rank. Just operationally he's in charge of EP. Remember, this is from my source's point of view. I can't vouch for him being right or wrong.

[Ivan]

Yup, that's what my guy told me. Fratto is sidelined, not shelved. If I wrote shelved previously it was in an unofficial sense. He still associates with people but is effectively on his own. He said the LoBues run EP now. That doesn't necessarily mean Matteo LoBue is a capo. He doesn't know his rank. Just operationally he's in charge of EP. Remember, this is from my source's point of view. I can't vouch for him being right or wrong.

Did he tell you anything about Dote, Mitria, Abbinanti, and Gagliano?

[PolackTony]

Regarding Fratto insulating himself from stuff, one would certainly expect so if he is still somebody. I’ll cite again the former Lucchese associate that I spoke with, the one who worked in Chicago in the late 90s/2000s. He said that made guys in Chicago are “like ghosts, they won’t talk to or deal with anybody but their own people”. We can see this with the Pete DiFronzo/Mickey Davis thing, where an order to throw a beating on RJ Serpico went through a buffer chain of 5 guys.

Tony, may I ask if you know the Lucchese crew the associate worked for? And whether he is Italian? Thanks.

Italian and from the Brooklyn faction.

[Antiliar]

Yup, that's what my guy told me. Fratto is sidelined, not shelved. If I wrote shelved previously it was in an unofficial sense. He still associates with people but is effectively on his own. He said the LoBues run EP now. That doesn't necessarily mean Matteo LoBue is a capo. He doesn't know his rank. Just operationally he's in charge of EP. Remember, this is from my source's point of view. I can't vouch for him being right or wrong.

Did he tell you anything about Dote, Mitria, Abbinanti, and Gagliano?

He heard the names but nothing more than that. He knows more about Cicero than other neighborhoods.

[Ivan]

Thanks Rick.

Scott today in his brief post on the mistrial is stating again that Fratto is the Elmwood Park crew boss, and that he took over after the DiFronzos faded in the latter half of the 2010s.

[InCamelot]

Regarding Fratto insulating himself from stuff, one would certainly expect so if he is still somebody. I’ll cite again the former Lucchese associate that I spoke with, the one who worked in Chicago in the late 90s/2000s. He said that made guys in Chicago are “like ghosts, they won’t talk to or deal with anybody but their own people”. We can see this with the Pete DiFronzo/Mickey Davis thing, where an order to throw a beating on RJ Serpico went through a buffer chain of 5 guys.

Tony, may I ask if you know the Lucchese crew the associate worked for? And whether he is Italian? Thanks.

Italian and from the Brooklyn faction.

Its an interesting detail that it was a Brooklyn faction associate working there. Not what you would typically expect given the more well-known connections between Chicago and the Bronx (via the Genovese for example). With that being said there probably are historic connections between Brooklyn Lucchese members and Chicago that you guys know about that aren't as commonly discussed.

Also interesting that some view that time period as a time where the Brooklyn faction was "out" and it was the Bronx guys who were more active. May be an indicator that the administrations don't direct as much of the criminal activities as pop culture would have you believe.

[funkster]

I mean, Pennisi has said Patty Red has dealings with the Outfit so that would track that the Brooklyn faction is tied to them.