General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Ivan]

So are all those sweepstakes machines Outfit, then? Or do they just control a portion of them, and if so, how big is their share, roughly?

[Patrickgold]

So are all those sweepstakes machines Outfit, then? Or do they just control a portion of them, and if so, how big is their share, roughly?

The two companies I know are controlled by Outfit guys and I have never seen a place that carries sweepstake machines that are not from those two companies

[Coloboy]

Fosco cleared the Pagano thing up on the boards a while back. It was false they were related and the other Paganos that are in-laws don't seem like winners either. Fosco did say that there Matassa and Pagano of NYC know each other (and I believe they were named in several broader national LUINA investigations together and would have likely both known people like Coia). I've seen people saying they did own a restaurant together as well.

I personally think John Matassa's latest scam was quite sad and shows he was quite desperate for cash, but you guys know better. I don't think he was nearly on the level of Daniel Pagano.

https://www.americannewspost.com/susan- ... ara-candy/

I tend to agree on the desperate nature of his last arrest/scam. It did reek of someone not doing great financially. However, you never know. Meaning a lot of these guys are just career criminals and are going to take advantage whenever and wherever they can. I've known multimillionaires to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. Hard to tell.

These guys get off on scamming people for money, no matter how small. Desperate? Maybe but look at Fatass Pritzker. A billionaire that risked a federal investigation by taking toilets out of his house just to save $30,000 when you have billions. The information I got about Pudgy is reliable and I was surprised myself. But also remember something about Pudgy. He is a made guy and for him not to use that to his advantage would be stupid in my opinion.

Remember how everyone laughed on ANP and elsewhere when it came out that Sarno was in a position of authority in the Outfit? Turns out he was feared and respected. He did time for the Outfit (even before the 2010 conviction) and had a reputation for violence. Now, Matassa seemingly wasn't a violent guy and only did a year in lockup, but I think the point still stands that made guys are treated differently and carry a lot of weight as long as the organization lets them.

Also, we know now from a recorded conversation with Sam Volpendesto in the early 2000's, that Sarno was actually being considered for boss at THAT time. Volpendesto was insinuating that Sarno got screwed by having Marcello be selected as boss.

You dont get to be the top of the heap in that MP crew without being dangerous. Just think of the folks that we know were or are still involved in that Melrose Park/Cicero faction to this day.

Yep; you also have to wonder how much influence DiFronzo still had at that point. You'd think he would have helped decide the boss matter if there was any type of dispute between the Marcello and Cicero camps over who should get it. I'd imagine Marcello got it via seniority and that he was the right-hand man of a previous boss (Carlisi).

You have as much insight into that time as anyone, but from every source available, my opinion is that he still held quite a bit of sway. SOMEONE was making those decisions, particularly in all the turmoil caused by family secrets. There is enough evidence to support him very much being involved until the early 2010's in some capacity. I've laid these out before, but we have him on camera meeting with other EP guys in the "Lunch with No Nose" feature on the news, we know paulie carparelli was afraid to cross him in the Melrose Park car dealer debacle, the FBI states that Sarno was forced to either kick up or share in profits with him, and also the FBI also reports him meeting with members of the grand ave crew in 2005 or 2006 at a restaurant. Sure seems like he had some type of position.

Wasn’t Lombardo also seen meeting with him right before he went on the lamb for family secrets? Or am I misremembering?

I've never heard that, although it would be interesting. Maybe someone else has some info.

[Snakes]

Fosco cleared the Pagano thing up on the boards a while back. It was false they were related and the other Paganos that are in-laws don't seem like winners either. Fosco did say that there Matassa and Pagano of NYC know each other (and I believe they were named in several broader national LUINA investigations together and would have likely both known people like Coia). I've seen people saying they did own a restaurant together as well.

I personally think John Matassa's latest scam was quite sad and shows he was quite desperate for cash, but you guys know better. I don't think he was nearly on the level of Daniel Pagano.

https://www.americannewspost.com/susan- ... ara-candy/

I tend to agree on the desperate nature of his last arrest/scam. It did reek of someone not doing great financially. However, you never know. Meaning a lot of these guys are just career criminals and are going to take advantage whenever and wherever they can. I've known multimillionaires to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. Hard to tell.

These guys get off on scamming people for money, no matter how small. Desperate? Maybe but look at Fatass Pritzker. A billionaire that risked a federal investigation by taking toilets out of his house just to save $30,000 when you have billions. The information I got about Pudgy is reliable and I was surprised myself. But also remember something about Pudgy. He is a made guy and for him not to use that to his advantage would be stupid in my opinion.

Remember how everyone laughed on ANP and elsewhere when it came out that Sarno was in a position of authority in the Outfit? Turns out he was feared and respected. He did time for the Outfit (even before the 2010 conviction) and had a reputation for violence. Now, Matassa seemingly wasn't a violent guy and only did a year in lockup, but I think the point still stands that made guys are treated differently and carry a lot of weight as long as the organization lets them.

Also, we know now from a recorded conversation with Sam Volpendesto in the early 2000's, that Sarno was actually being considered for boss at THAT time. Volpendesto was insinuating that Sarno got screwed by having Marcello be selected as boss.

You dont get to be the top of the heap in that MP crew without being dangerous. Just think of the folks that we know were or are still involved in that Melrose Park/Cicero faction to this day.

Yep; you also have to wonder how much influence DiFronzo still had at that point. You'd think he would have helped decide the boss matter if there was any type of dispute between the Marcello and Cicero camps over who should get it. I'd imagine Marcello got it via seniority and that he was the right-hand man of a previous boss (Carlisi).

You have as much insight into that time as anyone, but from every source available, my opinion is that he still held quite a bit of sway. SOMEONE was making those decisions, particularly in all the turmoil caused by family secrets. There is enough evidence to support him very much being involved until the early 2010's in some capacity. I've laid these out before, but we have him on camera meeting with other EP guys in the "Lunch with No Nose" feature on the news, we know paulie carparelli was afraid to cross him in the Melrose Park car dealer debacle, the FBI states that Sarno was forced to either kick up or share in profits with him, and also the FBI also reports him meeting with members of the grand ave crew in 2005 or 2006 at a restaurant. Sure seems like he had some type of position.

Wasn’t Lombardo also seen meeting with him right before he went on the lamb for family secrets? Or am I misremembering?

I've never heard that, although it would be interesting. Maybe someone else has some info.

I don't recall them meeting, but I can't say they didn't. Lombardo was seemingly on the shelf before he was indicted, but that didn't stop guys like Andriacchi from seeing him so I guess Matassa could have as well.

[Ivan]

Why was Lombardo shelved?

[Coloboy]

@snakes - Do you have confirm somewhere of Andriacchi meeting with Lombardo in that era?

[Snakes]

@snakes - Do you have confirm somewhere of Andriacchi meeting with Lombardo in that era?

I don't remember the exact wording, but Frank Calabrese implied that Lombardo was on the shelf, but Andriacchi was still seeing him.

Ivan, we aren't sure why Lombardo was put on the shelf, but Rick thinks it may have been done as early as the 80s, when Lombardo was first imprisoned. He was caught on a wire badmouthing the KC boss ("shit or get off the pot") and Aiuppa admonished him. I'll try and find the exact quotes. He may also have been shelved after his release in 1992, for reasons unknown but possibly involving him trying to insert himself back into the picture (he was alleged to be rebuilding the Grand Avenue crew and may have angled for the boss position at a time when the Outfit was in turmoil). The reasoning is all speculation until we see otherwise, though.

[Ivan]

@snakes - Do you have confirm somewhere of Andriacchi meeting with Lombardo in that era?

I don't remember the exact wording, but Frank Calabrese implied that Lombardo was on the shelf, but Andriacchi was still seeing him.

Ivan, we aren't sure why Lombardo was put on the shelf, but Rick thinks it may have been done as early as the 80s, when Lombardo was first imprisoned. He was caught on a wire badmouthing the KC boss ("shit or get off the pot") and Aiuppa admonished him. I'll try and find the exact quotes. He may also have been shelved after his release in 1992, for reasons unknown but possibly involving him trying to insert himself back into the picture (he was alleged to be rebuilding the Grand Avenue crew and may have angled for the boss position at a time when the Outfit was in turmoil). The reasoning is all speculation until we see otherwise, though.

thanks Snakes

[Snakes]

Actually, Lombardo told off St. Louis boss Tony Giordano in 1979. He told Giordano to "shit or get off the pot" when it came to getting money from Morris Shenker (lawyer who ran the Dunes) and that Aiuppa dressed him down after that. Aiuppa said you can't talk them like that and added that they were the "same" as "we" are (indicating they are all made guys). Aiuppa also implied that talking like that to another boss could start a war. Lombardo was still on the streets for a while after this, but as with most shelvings (or murders for that matter), it's often an accumulation of things that lead to a decision.

[PolackTony]

Actually, Lombardo told off St. Louis boss Tony Giordano in 1979. He told Giordano to "shit or get off the pot" when it came to getting money from Morris Shenker (lawyer who ran the Dunes) and that Aiuppa dressed him down after that. Aiuppa said you can't talk them like that and added that they were the "same" as "we" are (indicating they are all made guys). Aiuppa also implied that talking like that to another boss could start a war. Lombardo was still on the streets for a while after this, but as with most shelvings (or murders for that matter), it's often an accumulation of things that lead to a decision.

Yeah, it’s purely speculative but my guess is that while the Giordano incident would have at least gotten him a serious warning, Lombardo was shelved after getting out of prison in the 90s. As you noted before, this would assume that he may have made a power move and wound up getting shelved in that period, given all of the turmoil in the organization. There’s just so much that we don’t yet know about what was happening in these years, so best to not jump to too strong of conclusions unless more comes out. That he was indeed shelved I think is strongly supported by the Calabrese prison tapes.

Lombardo meeting with Joey A while he was shelved, they could at least use the fact that they were family as a cover. I’m not aware that he was ever documented as meeting with DiFronzo during this period. He was also of course on parole for the years in question, and thus had to be careful about who he was seen with apart from being shelved, but we also know that he was a very wily guy and presumably found ways to meet with people when he needed to.

[funkster]

Interesting i've listened to those wiretaps a million times and never realized he wasn't talking to Shenker when he said that.

[Snakes]

Interesting i've listened to those wiretaps a million times and never realized he wasn't talking to Shenker when he said that.

He was, what I referenced was a separate incident. Apparently, it's a phrase he enjoyed using lol

[funkster]

Interesting i've listened to those wiretaps a million times and never realized he wasn't talking to Shenker when he said that.

He was, what I referenced was a separate incident. Apparently, it's a phrase he enjoyed using lol

LOL

[chicagodog]

Fosco cleared the Pagano thing up on the boards a while back. It was false they were related and the other Paganos that are in-laws don't seem like winners either. Fosco did say that there Matassa and Pagano of NYC know each other (and I believe they were named in several broader national LUINA investigations together and would have likely both known people like Coia). I've seen people saying they did own a restaurant together as well.

I personally think John Matassa's latest scam was quite sad and shows he was quite desperate for cash, but you guys know better. I don't think he was nearly on the level of Daniel Pagano.

https://www.americannewspost.com/susan- ... ara-candy/

I tend to agree on the desperate nature of his last arrest/scam. It did reek of someone not doing great financially. However, you never know. Meaning a lot of these guys are just career criminals and are going to take advantage whenever and wherever they can. I've known multimillionaires to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. Hard to tell.

These guys get off on scamming people for money, no matter how small. Desperate? Maybe but look at Fatass Pritzker. A billionaire that risked a federal investigation by taking toilets out of his house just to save $30,000 when you have billions. The information I got about Pudgy is reliable and I was surprised myself. But also remember something about Pudgy. He is a made guy and for him not to use that to his advantage would be stupid in my opinion.

Remember how everyone laughed on ANP and elsewhere when it came out that Sarno was in a position of authority in the Outfit? Turns out he was feared and respected. He did time for the Outfit (even before the 2010 conviction) and had a reputation for violence. Now, Matassa seemingly wasn't a violent guy and only did a year in lockup, but I think the point still stands that made guys are treated differently and carry a lot of weight as long as the organization lets them.

Also, we know now from a recorded conversation with Sam Volpendesto in the early 2000's, that Sarno was actually being considered for boss at THAT time. Volpendesto was insinuating that Sarno got screwed by having Marcello be selected as boss.

You dont get to be the top of the heap in that MP crew without being dangerous. Just think of the folks that we know were or are still involved in that Melrose Park/Cicero faction to this day.

Yep; you also have to wonder how much influence DiFronzo still had at that point. You'd think he would have helped decide the boss matter if there was any type of dispute between the Marcello and Cicero camps over who should get it. I'd imagine Marcello got it via seniority and that he was the right-hand man of a previous boss (Carlisi).

You have as much insight into that time as anyone, but from every source available, my opinion is that he still held quite a bit of sway. SOMEONE was making those decisions, particularly in all the turmoil caused by family secrets. There is enough evidence to support him very much being involved until the early 2010's in some capacity. I've laid these out before, but we have him on camera meeting with other EP guys in the "Lunch with No Nose" feature on the news, we know paulie carparelli was afraid to cross him in the Melrose Park car dealer debacle, the FBI states that Sarno was forced to either kick up or share in profits with him, and also the FBI also reports him meeting with members of the grand ave crew in 2005 or 2006 at a restaurant. Sure seems like he had some type of position.

Wasn’t Lombardo also seen meeting with him right before he went on the lamb for family secrets? Or am I misremembering?

I've never heard that, although it would be interesting. Maybe someone else has some info.

I don't recall them meeting, but I can't say they didn't. Lombardo was seemingly on the shelf before he was indicted, but that didn't stop guys like Andriacchi from seeing him so I guess Matassa could have as well.

Apologizes should have been more clear. Wasn’t DiFronzo seen meeting him prior to Family Secrets? I thought I read that in either the “Family Secrets” book by Jeff Cohn. I could be wrong though.

[Snakes]

Fosco cleared the Pagano thing up on the boards a while back. It was false they were related and the other Paganos that are in-laws don't seem like winners either. Fosco did say that there Matassa and Pagano of NYC know each other (and I believe they were named in several broader national LUINA investigations together and would have likely both known people like Coia). I've seen people saying they did own a restaurant together as well.

I personally think John Matassa's latest scam was quite sad and shows he was quite desperate for cash, but you guys know better. I don't think he was nearly on the level of Daniel Pagano.

https://www.americannewspost.com/susan- ... ara-candy/

I tend to agree on the desperate nature of his last arrest/scam. It did reek of someone not doing great financially. However, you never know. Meaning a lot of these guys are just career criminals and are going to take advantage whenever and wherever they can. I've known multimillionaires to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. Hard to tell.

These guys get off on scamming people for money, no matter how small. Desperate? Maybe but look at Fatass Pritzker. A billionaire that risked a federal investigation by taking toilets out of his house just to save $30,000 when you have billions. The information I got about Pudgy is reliable and I was surprised myself. But also remember something about Pudgy. He is a made guy and for him not to use that to his advantage would be stupid in my opinion.

Remember how everyone laughed on ANP and elsewhere when it came out that Sarno was in a position of authority in the Outfit? Turns out he was feared and respected. He did time for the Outfit (even before the 2010 conviction) and had a reputation for violence. Now, Matassa seemingly wasn't a violent guy and only did a year in lockup, but I think the point still stands that made guys are treated differently and carry a lot of weight as long as the organization lets them.

Also, we know now from a recorded conversation with Sam Volpendesto in the early 2000's, that Sarno was actually being considered for boss at THAT time. Volpendesto was insinuating that Sarno got screwed by having Marcello be selected as boss.

You dont get to be the top of the heap in that MP crew without being dangerous. Just think of the folks that we know were or are still involved in that Melrose Park/Cicero faction to this day.

Yep; you also have to wonder how much influence DiFronzo still had at that point. You'd think he would have helped decide the boss matter if there was any type of dispute between the Marcello and Cicero camps over who should get it. I'd imagine Marcello got it via seniority and that he was the right-hand man of a previous boss (Carlisi).

You have as much insight into that time as anyone, but from every source available, my opinion is that he still held quite a bit of sway. SOMEONE was making those decisions, particularly in all the turmoil caused by family secrets. There is enough evidence to support him very much being involved until the early 2010's in some capacity. I've laid these out before, but we have him on camera meeting with other EP guys in the "Lunch with No Nose" feature on the news, we know paulie carparelli was afraid to cross him in the Melrose Park car dealer debacle, the FBI states that Sarno was forced to either kick up or share in profits with him, and also the FBI also reports him meeting with members of the grand ave crew in 2005 or 2006 at a restaurant. Sure seems like he had some type of position.

Wasn’t Lombardo also seen meeting with him right before he went on the lamb for family secrets? Or am I misremembering?

I've never heard that, although it would be interesting. Maybe someone else has some info.

I don't recall them meeting, but I can't say they didn't. Lombardo was seemingly on the shelf before he was indicted, but that didn't stop guys like Andriacchi from seeing him so I guess Matassa could have as well.

Apologizes should have been more clear. Wasn’t DiFronzo seen meeting him prior to Family Secrets? I thought I read that in either the “Family Secrets” book by Jeff Cohn. I could be wrong though.

That's correct; according to an FBI informant, Lombardo met with Rosemont mayor Donald Stephens at an Elmwood Park Restaurant in 1999. Also allegedly present were John and Peter DiFronzo, Andriacchi, Willie Messino, Rudy Fratto, and Rick Rizzolo. The supposed topic was contracts for a proposed Rosemont casino. Honestly, to me it sounds kind of suspect, especially for a sitting mayor to meet with a guy as notorious as Lombardo (who I think was still on paper at the time). Also, just the amount of guys present at the meeting stretches credulity.