Angelo Bruno's home to become city landmark?

[Pogo The Clown]

And wasn't Stanfa the driver by chance? I rememeber reading (maybe Freselone) after Martorano backed off driving Bruno asked Stanfa to drive him out of the guy's at the restaurant.


Pogo

[toto]

And wasn't Stanfa the driver by chance? I rememeber reading (maybe Freselone) after Martorano backed off driving Bruno asked Stanfa to drive him out of the guy's at the restaurant.


Pogo

Which means if Martorano was part of it, they wanted only to kill Bruno. So he backed out and thought Bruno will drive himself so they can kill him easily. Instead Stanfa is there.

[B.]

I do strongly believe Martorano was part of it. He was close to Bruno, but would not have gotten made if Bruno hadn't died.

I've given this alot of thought and my I'm still evolving, most, if not all, of our American and Sicilian cross Mafia connections involve Sicilian-Americans. You do not see that same thing with non-Sicilian bosses (and by non-Sicilian I would include Sicilians without any long-historic blood connections -Luciano, Accardo, Ligambi- but just happens to have been born Sicilian). Historically connected Sicilian-Americans (Bruno, Gambino, Stanfa) recognized both Sicily and American non-Sicilian members like the Gen as the "same." Meanwhile the Gen, according to Cafaro, did not recognize Sicilians. I think it boils down to the personal relationship with members. Someone like a Frank Cali with many Sicilian connections would be in a better position to recognize Sicilians whereas a Barney with mostly Harlem/NYC connections may not be in a position to vouch for anyone due to a lack of connections. And since there aren't many national meetings for people to mingle, connections have dwindled down to mostly a local level with the exception of familial connections. Bellomo has Corleonese roots and his grandfather lived very close to Giuseppe Morello, but that doesn't prove anything. Whereas Frank Cali has been reported to be linked to Palermo. D'Aquila's mother was a Cali.

As this relates to Stanfa, in the country 30 years, how long must someone be a resident to not be considered a zip? I think Anastasia used that to contrast Merlino's style. The truth is Stanfa did not run Philadelpia in the traditional Sicilian fashion. His "zips" were actually Calabrian-American migrants from Cittanova who just happened to be criminals in Philadelphia with a Cittanovesi population since 1964. His other recruits were Veasey (non-Italian in his father's side) and Previte (a former cop). If he had brought over relatives from Caccamo I'd say Stanfa was trying to bring about a Sicilianismo renaissance but his administrative/membership choices paint a different story. Stanfa wasn't Furio Giunta or Sal Catalano. By 1990 he was as American as Luciano or Cali.

Also, I *heard (we'll file this under internet allegation) that Massimino has blood-relations to the Sicilian Mafia. I can't confirm or deny.

It was Tag who used to post that Massimino had possible relatives involved with the mafia in Agrigento. Maybe that's where he can trace his heritage, but I'd be surprised if he has connections there.

I think you're both right about the Sicilian/American connection being mainly on a case by case basis, with Sicilian-Americans with relatives overseas being the main connection.

[Angelo Santino]

Oddly, a "Camorra consigliere" was sound to have came from Naples and got protection or was at least associated with the Gen in Springfield. This was in the 25 YAV testimony.

[joeycigars]

And wasn't Stanfa the driver by chance? I rememeber reading (maybe Freselone) after Martorano backed off driving Bruno asked Stanfa to drive him out of the guy's at the restaurant.


Pogo

You have to think why on the night of the big hit the regular driver ( Long john ) backed out , Then you have a unsanctioned hit on a boss and they left a Live witness (Stanfa ),

The question that begs to be answered is ..Why would the killer leave Stanfa alive if he wasnt part of the hit , That would lead to questioning of Stanfa of the highest order and death sentences , I dont buy it,

[B.]

And wasn't Stanfa the driver by chance? I rememeber reading (maybe Freselone) after Martorano backed off driving Bruno asked Stanfa to drive him out of the guy's at the restaurant.


Pogo

You have to think why on the night of the big hit the regular driver ( Long john ) backed out , Then you have a unsanctioned hit on a boss and they left a Live witness (Stanfa ),

The question that begs to be answered is ..Why would the killer leave Stanfa alive if he wasnt part of the hit , That would lead to questioning of Stanfa of the highest order and death sentences , I dont buy it,

Stanfa apparently jumped out of the car and ran to his own house a few blocks away, leaving his personal car, right after the initial shotgun blast hit. He was hit with buckshot from the same shot that hit Bruno, which is why he was hospitalized, but whether or not they intended to kill Stanfa we'll never know.

[rayray]

I assume someone had to pass word to the killer that Bruno was in the passenger seat, if they were expecting him to be alone, without his driver.

And, for the killers being concerned, didn't they believe they had the backing of the Genovese's and possibly the commission?

[B.]

I assume someone had to pass word to the killer that Bruno was in the passenger seat, if they were expecting him to be alone, without his driver.

And, for the killers being concerned, didn't they believe they had the backing of the Genovese's and possibly the commission?

Definitely a good point. If they believed that it was a Commission order, they may have overlooked their personal feelings for Bruno and followed the order.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

About the whole Martarano being an associate and not being able to tell Stanfa what to do, that's true in theory. But we've heard of numerous cases in which associates held more power than the average soldier and had the ability to pass commands onto those soldiers. Joe Watts for example. Martarano had a lot more influence I think in the Philly family than Stanfa did at the time, even as a made soldier. He earned more, had the union connects and operations with Bruno & Frankie Flowers, and the business in which Bruno was on the payroll as a salesmen. I think Martarano could've easily told Stanfa what was going on, and where to be that night. But the story goes that after Martarano called Cous' and informed Bruno he wouldn't be able to make it, Bruno himself asked Stanfa for a ride home, noting the proximity of their homes and the relationship they had.

[Cheech]

long john wasn't made or wasn't made at the time?

[Pogo The Clown]

He wasn't made at the time.


Pogo

[B.]

Harry Riccobene wouldn't allow his brother Sonny or Martorano to be members, which Bruno honored. When Bruno died, I guess that went out the window as Martorano was made not much later.

And I agree that Martorano had more influence in Philadelphia as an associate than Stanfa did. I'm not sure how that would play into the Bruno hit. Most of the info about the Bruno hit is conjecture from people who weren't involved or even made at the time.

[toto]

Harry Riccobene wouldn't allow his brother Sonny or Martorano to be members, which Bruno honored. When Bruno died, I guess that went out the window as Martorano was made not much later.

And I agree that Martorano had more influence in Philadelphia as an associate than Stanfa did. I'm not sure how that would play into the Bruno hit. Most of the info about the Bruno hit is conjecture from people who weren't involved or even made at the time.

Why did Riccobene oppose those two being made?

[rayray]

Assuming Bruno at the last minute asked Stanfa for a ride home, my gut feeling is that Stanfa is innocent and only guilty being at the wrong place at the wrong time, chock it up to bad luck on his part.

Who were the guys that died after the Bruno hit?

[B.]

Assuming Bruno at the last minute asked Stanfa for a ride home, my gut feeling is that Stanfa is innocent and only guilty being at the wrong place at the wrong time, chock it up to bad luck on his part.

Who were the guys that died after the Bruno hit?

The guys who died for allegedly conspiring in the Bruno hit were Tony Caponigro, Alfred Salerno, Frank Sindone, and John Simone.

Joe Ciancaglini was interrogated at gunpoint (according to Caramandi at least) and questioned due to his closeness to Sindone, but ultimately they let him live.