Mob Talk - 1/25/16

[Ivan]

Faffy Iannarella is back in town, now in a halfway house.

Thanks Chucky. Scott article about this also up:

http://gangsterreport.com/numbers-on-so ... k-in-town/

[Pete]

To be clear I never said Fresolone misrepresented himself. I only find his instant rise to capo questionable, same with Previte. They were wired up at all times, yet somehow never recorded Tony Buck or Natale/Merlino with even the slightest: "You can head that up over there." Now I'm not making an argument that they were lying, they both might not have had a recorder on that day. I enjoy both of their works and without them, my knowledge on modern Philly decreases 75%. But I also remember Fat Vincent Teresa's tell all as the No. 3 man in NE. Only came out later that he wasn't even made. But all three of these men were "legitimate" in that the knew and dealt with the people they speak of. Fresolone was close to Specs and rode his coattails and probably aided in his duties as a foreman, Previte was in NJ and answered to himself and had 2 associates under him, Fat Vinnie dealt with Patriarca very exclusively. But these instances were technical but perhaps not official. All it would take is for another Philly informant to say Previte wasn't ever a captain. That would change how many of us look at TLG and inspire a reevaluation. It would make sense since Previte never explains when he became captain and never spoke of attending any administrative meetings such as when Merlino became AB following Natale's reincarnation. In contrast: Fratianno and Gravano's autobiographies explain their promotions with the same detail as their making ceremonies and no one questions their authenticity. Just gonna throw that out there.

Also, according to Kenji (who through his association with the Colombos was introduced to certain Philadelphia members and was told) Veasey wasn't made. Take that however you want. For me it's possible but I'm in no position to know.

Previte was a capo in his own mind. Not even made. Like you said there's a reason he doesn't describe even a making ceremony, he didn't have one.

[Angelo Santino]

To be clear I never said Fresolone misrepresented himself. I only find his instant rise to capo questionable, same with Previte. They were wired up at all times, yet somehow never recorded Tony Buck or Natale/Merlino with even the slightest: "You can head that up over there." Now I'm not making an argument that they were lying, they both might not have had a recorder on that day. I enjoy both of their works and without them, my knowledge on modern Philly decreases 75%. But I also remember Fat Vincent Teresa's tell all as the No. 3 man in NE. Only came out later that he wasn't even made. But all three of these men were "legitimate" in that the knew and dealt with the people they speak of. Fresolone was close to Specs and rode his coattails and probably aided in his duties as a foreman, Previte was in NJ and answered to himself and had 2 associates under him, Fat Vinnie dealt with Patriarca very exclusively. But these instances were technical but perhaps not official. All it would take is for another Philly informant to say Previte wasn't ever a captain. That would change how many of us look at TLG and inspire a reevaluation. It would make sense since Previte never explains when he became captain and never spoke of attending any administrative meetings such as when Merlino became AB following Natale's reincarnation. In contrast: Fratianno and Gravano's autobiographies explain their promotions with the same detail as their making ceremonies and no one questions their authenticity. Just gonna throw that out there.

Also, according to Kenji (who through his association with the Colombos was introduced to certain Philadelphia members and was told) Veasey wasn't made. Take that however you want. For me it's possible but I'm in no position to know.

Previte was a capo in his own mind. Not even made. Like you said there's a reason he doesn't describe even a making ceremony, he didn't have one.

We don't know that for a fact, we can only raise the possibility. Fact is both the FBI and Anastasia took him at his word. Neither is perfect but they both screen cooperators with scrutiny. We need another insider to give his thoughts on it. Borgesi hated The Last Gangster and bitched to Anastasia about it over the phone. If Borgesi was a youtube personality he'd probably upload multiple rants about Previte.

[Pogo The Clown]

Previte claimed he never went through a ceremony. Only that Stanfa told him he was a member and that they would do the ceremony after the war. Most likely BS since Stanfa held several ceremonies during that time period and could have easily made Previte if he had wanted to. The point was moot though since Natale and Merlino thought he was made and treated him as such.


As for being a Capo he claimed that Natale told him that he (Previte) was "his guy" down there (South Jersey). Not sure if he expounded on that during his debriefings or testimony. This was in 1995 (Previte wasn't wired up until 1998/9). Could also be bullshit but not unbeliavable considering the state of the family in 1995. I mean Natale was made by Merlino and became Boss the same day. Mazzone and Borgesi were also made by Merlino in 1994 (when Stanfa was still the recognized Boss) and promoted soon after. Not that long after Bobby Luisi bought his membership and was soon promoted to Capo. So it is not crazy to believe that Natale named Previte a Capo as well.


Pogo

[B.]

I wouldn't put Fresolone in the same category as Previte. I do believe he was at least slated for promotion, if not to underboss then to capo as he says. Scarfo and Piccolo were relying on the North Jersey crew for both muscle and political leverage with New York, as the Philadelphia and South Jersey operations were a mess. With Martirano being basically useless by this time, it would make sense that they would replace him with someone from the North Jersey crew, as the North Jersey crew was fully intact, loyal, and heavily associated with NY. Plus they had just made five new members up there (later invalidated).

What is interesting is at this time Licata was said to believe that New York was taking over their crew, and Fresolone makes this sound like Licata was scared and willing to give in to New York, but I wonder if he misread Scoops. Scoops Licata was very close to the NJ Lucchese crew and before he was identified as a made member of the Philly family, some LE believed he was a Lucchese associate. Personally I wonder if Licata was only acting scared as a front and was in reality more than willing to leave the badly damaged Philly family and join his friends in the Luccheses or another NY family. He may have been obsessing about an NY takeover like Fresolone talks about in his book because he secretly wanted it to happen... seems like that's what Fresolone, Martirano, and Piccolo start to take from it, at least according to Fresolone.

But go forward 20 years and Nicky Scarfo Jr. is a Lucchese capo and Licata is standing behind Philly boss Merlino and supporting the Philly family's beef with the Lucchese family. If someone had told Licata in 1990 that in 2011 he'd be meeting with John Gambino along with acting boss Ligambi (who in 1990 was serving life in prison) to discuss Lucchese capo Scarfo Jr.'s attempts to pull disabled former underboss Joe Ciancaglini Jr., plus Joe Grande and Lou Fazzini, into the Lucchese family, he'd probably think you had a very vivid imagination. The truth is stranger than fiction.

[johnny_scootch]

Lucchese capo Scarfo Jr.'s attempts to pull disabled former underboss Joe Ciancaglini Jr., plus Joe Grande and Lou Fazzini, into the Lucchese family

This seems like an inconceivable scenario. Those 3 guys would need permission to transfer and there was absolutely no shot of that happening. Nicky Jr just stirring the pot?

[Ivan]

The truth is stranger than fiction.

Indeed. And that is why I will never tire of the Philadelphia Mafia.

There was a meme on crime forums a while back (it still pops up occasionally) that went: "Philly mob: We are just a crew of glorified bookmakers". That really should be replaced with "Philly mob: You can't make this shit up."

[Pete]

Lucchese capo Scarfo Jr.'s attempts to pull disabled former underboss Joe Ciancaglini Jr., plus Joe Grande and Lou Fazzini, into the Lucchese family

This seems like an inconceivable scenario. Those 3 guys would need permission to transfer and there was absolutely no shot of that happening. Nicky Jr just stirring the pot?

In theory if amuso is the boss why couldn't that have happened? If he said there with us now philly couldn't do shit about it. Not saying it was ever likely but certainly seems like it could be done

[Pogo The Clown]

There was a meme on crime forums a while back (it still pops up occasionally) that went: "Philly mob: We are just a crew of glorified bookmakers."

[Pogo The Clown]

Crap it is not comming up.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

B can you clarify Scarfo juniors moves against Philly?

I was under the understanding he was attempting a takeover of the family garnering support from members not recruiting for the Lucchese's?

Cheers

[Chucky]

Lucchese capo Scarfo Jr.'s attempts to pull disabled former underboss Joe Ciancaglini Jr., plus Joe Grande and Lou Fazzini, into the Lucchese family

This seems like an inconceivable scenario. Those 3 guys would need permission to transfer and there was absolutely no shot of that happening. Nicky Jr just stirring the pot?

I assumed the idea by the Scarfo's would be that Nicky Jr would get released "back" into the Philly family, not the Luccheses absorbing made guys from another family. It seemed like more than stirring the pot considering it led to a major meeting between Ligambi and the Gambinos.

The Scarfo's had the support of Joe Grande at one point before Licata swayed him back to the "new administration", he approached Lou Fazzini through his brother, and had dinner with Joe Chang Jr in South Philly in 2008 about jumping ship to him.

[brianwellbrock]

So the idea was having Scarfo Jr. Go to the Philly family and was trying to have enough people on his side so he could take over? Obviously Sr. Was pulling strings also. So when he was arrested in 2011 and put in iso the feds mustve actually had reason too.

Scarfo Jr. Up until the day he was put away doing everything his dad asked of him. And Scarfo still wishing to run the family.

[Rocco]

Lucchese capo Scarfo Jr.'s attempts to pull disabled former underboss Joe Ciancaglini Jr., plus Joe Grande and Lou Fazzini, into the Lucchese family

This seems like an inconceivable scenario. Those 3 guys would need permission to transfer and there was absolutely no shot of that happening. Nicky Jr just stirring the pot?

I assumed the idea by the Scarfo's would be that Nicky Jr would get released "back" into the Philly family, not the Luccheses absorbing made guys from another family. It seemed like more than stirring the pot considering it led to a major meeting between Ligambi and the Gambinos.

The Scarfo's had the support of Joe Grande at one point before Licata swayed him back to the "new administration", he approached Lou Fazzini through his brother, and had dinner with Joe Chang Jr in South Philly in 2008 about jumping ship to him.

I don't understand why Ligambi didn't just reach out to Merlino so he could get word to Joey Perna since they are friends and deal with the Luchese family directly. The Perna's were much closer to the Family Panel in NY then any Gambino member and certainly more so then Nicky Jr. BY 2007 Ralph Perna was Capo and Nicky was knocked down. What was the Date on the meeting Between Ligambi and Johnny Gambino? was it prior to 2007 or after?

[johnny_scootch]

Lucchese capo Scarfo Jr.'s attempts to pull disabled former underboss Joe Ciancaglini Jr., plus Joe Grande and Lou Fazzini, into the Lucchese family

This seems like an inconceivable scenario. Those 3 guys would need permission to transfer and there was absolutely no shot of that happening. Nicky Jr just stirring the pot?

In theory if amuso is the boss why couldn't that have happened? If he said there with us now philly couldn't do shit about it. Not saying it was ever likely but certainly seems like it could be done

Bosses can't just take made guys from other families without throwing all the rules out the window.