Mob Talk - 1/25/16

[Ivan]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

[Pogo The Clown]

Let me add that according to Freselone Scarfo did put a contract on Merlino after the attempt on Nicky Jr. He wanted the North Jersey Crew to carry it out. It never got off the ground because the family was such a mess at that point and because Merlino went to prison not long after.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Blood Oath is one of the best mob books out there.

[Pete]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Blood Oath is one of the best mob books out there.

Just another book by a low level guy who pretends like he was al Capone reincarnated. He was such a great gangster and scoops licata was nothing etc etc it's pretty laughable. Certainly some good info in the book though

[B.]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Don't forget this classic letter Scarfo wrote to Scarfo Jr.:

My dear Son, hold on to these 39 pages for the future. Review them. Tacettas and Pernas are rats and the younger ones are glorified rats by proxy. And who knows how far they will go in the future. As far as I'm concerned, they're all lying rats.
Love, Dad xxoo

[Angelo Santino]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Blood Oath is one of the best mob books out there.

Just another book by a low level guy who pretends like he was al Capone reincarnated. He was such a great gangster and scoops licata was nothing etc etc it's pretty laughable. Certainly some good info in the book though

True enough. But I'd argue that the low level guy is in the majority. Fresolone provided a glorious and great take on the Newark faction of Philadelphia Mafia in era that between the Scarfo and Stanfa years. Fresolone, like all mob tell alls, paint themselves as the only 'honorable' gangster, no one ever says: I was a piece of shit.

At OUR own level, look at Lenehan. As Pic n RD he was the true amico nos. In reality he's a bottom feeder. Then take someone like Previte who claims to be a captain but never went through or a ceremony or detailed his elevation to 'mob capo', but yet that's what he'll go down as.

The uncertainty during the the late 80's early 90's Fresolone describes in detail appears accurate but I don't believe he was made instant captain and underboss by Tony Buck and Patty Specs but it's not my area so don't spend too much time on it. Each guy has their own egos and a feeling of entitlement to what they should have been. Frattiano was Acting Underboss to a do-nothing Acting Boss Louis Dragna of LA, he described himself as "the acting boss" while Dragna was on his knees measuring people for tuxedos. In the end, it was decided he misrepresented himself so just because what someone says they were isn't always the case.

But when Fresolone says Licata and Joe Sodano were captains of two separate crews, I kinda find fault with the George Anastasia narrative that Caprio killed Sodano and inherited his crew when had no ties to the Sodano crew and was in fact more linked to the traditional Jersey Crew. Sodano had no made guys under him, there was nothing for Caprio to inherit but a gambling ring linked with the Genoveses. It's more likely Natale made Caprio captain/acting captain over Licata's crew and perhaps Sodano's interests. But if Sodano was an acting captain it was the same time Licata was and Sodano was a captain in name only with his own assocs. under him.

[Ivan]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Don't forget this classic letter Scarfo wrote to Scarfo Jr.:

My dear Son, hold on to these 39 pages for the future. Review them. Tacettas and Pernas are rats and the younger ones are glorified rats by proxy. And who knows how far they will go in the future. As far as I'm concerned, they're all lying rats.
Love, Dad xxoo

Damn that packs a wallop. Haha "review them".

My favorite Scarfo letter quote is probably his charming message to his mom, "You better save your prayers for them because I don't need no prayers and besides all that, fuck god too."

[brianwellbrock]

I think you guys are giving EB a hard time. While I would too trust the FBI and Capeci more he only states wat he believes to be true, and while he didnt say Barney wasnt boss he sure did imply that he wasnt knee deep in the game no more.

However, it is other posters on here that repeat what he says as if its their own info. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and EB definitely has credibility but we shouldnt bash him for maybe being wrong or not 100 percent right as though the street talk he probably hears is tricky when it comes to the Genovese.

[Sol]

I think you guys are giving EB a hard time. While I would too trust the FBI and Capeci more he only states wat he believes to be true, and while he didnt say Barney wasnt boss he sure did imply that he wasnt knee deep in the game no more.

However, it is other posters on here that repeat what he says as if its their own info. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and EB definitely has credibility but we shouldnt bash him for maybe being wrong or not 100 percent right as though the street talk he probably hears is tricky when it comes to the Genovese.

Even the FBI gets it wrong every once in awhile. EB is a good source outside of the LE.......Soliai

[Mikey_Palmice88]

So he wouldn't have bet into his friends books or not pay bookies if he was from NY? Sounds like Merlino would have grown up to be a piece of shit, no matter where he's from.

merlino's spent what, 4 years free since being made boss 16 years ago? and got indicted the same year he was made boss.

New York's interest certainly isn't what it was when it comes to Philly.

He allows top members to hang around with KNOWN rats, like i said he comes across more a gang leader then CN boss.

Merlino was boss before he had the title, there's a reason the Genovese called for him after the Sodano hit went down and not Natale, the feds and NY knew who was running the show, it wasn't rocket science. He's been the top dog since Stanfa got locked up.

NY interest isn't what it was, true. That said, the Gambinos sent quite a few top guys to meet with Ligambi & Staino, and there were a bunch of NY guys at Staino & Esposito's weddings. There's still a fairly strong relationship with the Gambinos & Colombos.

He bet into independents who balked at the street tax, it either put them out of business or got them in line, there was too much heat on all of them to start clipping books, that was their alternative and it worked.

As for the hanging with rats thing, I'm guessing your referring to Johnny Chang's buddy? He was never a player and hung on the fringes....at best. It's not like he's hanging around with Tommy Scafidi. Fuck, Joe Sr and Joe Jr are friends with Virgil, he's a family friend, this is a horseshit example.

Anastasia completely contradicts this in The Last Gangster.

[Chucky]

Faffy Iannarella is back in town, now in a halfway house.

[Wiseguy]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Blood Oath is one of the best mob books out there.

Just another book by a low level guy who pretends like he was al Capone reincarnated. He was such a great gangster and scoops licata was nothing etc etc it's pretty laughable. Certainly some good info in the book though

True enough. But I'd argue that the low level guy is in the majority. Fresolone provided a glorious and great take on the Newark faction of Philadelphia Mafia in era that between the Scarfo and Stanfa years. Fresolone, like all mob tell alls, paint themselves as the only 'honorable' gangster, no one ever says: I was a piece of shit.

At OUR own level, look at Lenehan. As Pic n RD he was the true amico nos. In reality he's a bottom feeder. Then take someone like Previte who claims to be a captain but never went through or a ceremony or detailed his elevation to 'mob capo', but yet that's what he'll go down as.

The uncertainty during the the late 80's early 90's Fresolone describes in detail appears accurate but I don't believe he was made instant captain and underboss by Tony Buck and Patty Specs but it's not my area so don't spend too much time on it. Each guy has their own egos and a feeling of entitlement to what they should have been. Frattiano was Acting Underboss to a do-nothing Acting Boss Louis Dragna of LA, he described himself as "the acting boss" while Dragna was on his knees measuring people for tuxedos. In the end, it was decided he misrepresented himself so just because what someone says they were isn't always the case.

But when Fresolone says Licata and Joe Sodano were captains of two separate crews, I kinda find fault with the George Anastasia narrative that Caprio killed Sodano and inherited his crew when had no ties to the Sodano crew and was in fact more linked to the traditional Jersey Crew. Sodano had no made guys under him, there was nothing for Caprio to inherit but a gambling ring linked with the Genoveses. It's more likely Natale made Caprio captain/acting captain over Licata's crew and perhaps Sodano's interests. But if Sodano was an acting captain it was the same time Licata was and Sodano was a captain in name only with his own assocs. under him.

It's been a while since I read Blood Oath but I dont remember getting the impression that Freselone misrepresented himself at all. In fact, one reason I liked it so much was how well spoken and down to earth Freselone came across. Considering the state of the family at the time, it's not completely unbelievable that he would be put in those top positions after he was made. He makes no secret about cooperating at that point so it's not like he's trying to puff himself up. And yes, he obviously had personal beefs with Licata but I dont recall him saying anything that rings untrue. Yes, Licata is a captain now but thats not saying much considering how bare the cupboard is with that crew.

Just my 2 cents.

[Pogo The Clown]

To clarify Freselone never claimed to be the UnderBoss. He said that Martirano hinted to him that when he (Martirano) died Freselone would be the new UnderBoss. Who knows if it was true or not but it's not really unbelievable considering the state of the family in 1990.


Pogo

[joeycigars]

Funny thinking of Scarfo speaking in the 3rd person. Apparently Scarfo did it ften according to Freselone.

ROFL. That is some serious egomaniac shit. I need to read Blood Oath.

Blood Oath is one of the best mob books out there.

Just another book by a low level guy who pretends like he was al Capone reincarnated. He was such a great gangster and scoops licata was nothing etc etc it's pretty laughable. Certainly some good info in the book though

Freselone did tape the making ceremony which was a real big deal at the time and still kinda is , Other then that and baby sitting Scarfo JR while wearing a wire , No one would have heard of this guy.

Did anyone ever find a picture of Freselone ?

[Angelo Santino]

To be clear I never said Fresolone misrepresented himself. I only find his instant rise to capo questionable, same with Previte. They were wired up at all times, yet somehow never recorded Tony Buck or Natale/Merlino with even the slightest: "You can head that up over there." Now I'm not making an argument that they were lying, they both might not have had a recorder on that day. I enjoy both of their works and without them, my knowledge on modern Philly decreases 75%. But I also remember Fat Vincent Teresa's tell all as the No. 3 man in NE. Only came out later that he wasn't even made. But all three of these men were "legitimate" in that the knew and dealt with the people they speak of. Fresolone was close to Specs and rode his coattails and probably aided in his duties as a foreman, Previte was in NJ and answered to himself and had 2 associates under him, Fat Vinnie dealt with Patriarca very exclusively. But these instances were technical but perhaps not official. All it would take is for another Philly informant to say Previte wasn't ever a captain. That would change how many of us look at TLG and inspire a reevaluation. It would make sense since Previte never explains when he became captain and never spoke of attending any administrative meetings such as when Merlino became AB following Natale's reincarnation. In contrast: Fratianno and Gravano's autobiographies explain their promotions with the same detail as their making ceremonies and no one questions their authenticity. Just gonna throw that out there.

Also, according to Kenji (who through his association with the Colombos was introduced to certain Philadelphia members and was told) Veasey wasn't made. Take that however you want. For me it's possible but I'm in no position to know.