Motorfab's Blog: Une Histoire de Crime Organisé

[motorfab]

Excellent Tony thanks.

[Guest]

According to what Joe Bonanno said about when Philly got their seat Bruno would have been the Boss at the time. Though Bill was incorrect about LaRocca retiring to Sicily since we know he remained as the Pittsburgh Boss until his death in 1984. If he lost his seat it must have been for some other reason.


Pogo

1959 wiretap of Accardo and Giancana discussing the Commission (Giancana having succeeded Accardo in ‘56).

At least per this conversation:

• Giancana and Bonanno put Zerilli on the Commission.

• Joe Ida had a seat on the Commission during Accardo’s tenure (mid ‘40s - ‘56).

• A NE boss prior to Patriarca also had a seat on the Commission (unclear exactly if this was during or prior to Accardo’s tenure).

• Accardo asserts that there was a period when Bonnano did not have a seat on the Commission (?).

Also interesting to note that Accardo is keen to underscore to Giancana that Lucchese, Bonanno, and Magaddino are paesani. Now, obviously, two are Castellammaresi and one Palermitano, but all were Sicilians, as were Accardo and Giancana, unlike Patriarca and Genovese, or Accardo-era Commission reps like Costello, Anastasia, and Joe Ida. Accardo neglected to put Profaci in with the other three, but he is noting that the Sicilians voted as a bloc, which would seem to align with Bonanno’s account of the “conservative faction” on the Commission.

In a different part of the same conversation, Accardo and Giancana note that LaRocca was Pittsburgh boss, but don’t seem to discuss him as part of the Commission, though we have enough otherwise to conclude that LaRocca did have a seat.

[PolackTony]

According to what Joe Bonanno said about when Philly got their seat Bruno would have been the Boss at the time. Though Bill was incorrect about LaRocca retiring to Sicily since we know he remained as the Pittsburgh Boss until his death in 1984. If he lost his seat it must have been for some other reason.


Pogo

1959 wiretap of Accardo and Giancana discussing the Commission (Giancana having succeeded Accardo in ‘56).

At least per this conversation:

• Giancana and Bonanno put Zerilli on the Commission.

• Joe Ida had a seat on the Commission during Accardo’s tenure (mid ‘40s - ‘56).

• A NE boss prior to Patriarca also had a seat on the Commission (unclear exactly if this was during or prior to Accardo’s tenure).

• Accardo asserts that there was a period when Bonnano did not have a seat on the Commission (?).

Also interesting to note that Accardo is keen to underscore to Giancana that Lucchese, Bonanno, and Magaddino are paesani. Now, obviously, two are Castellammaresi and one Palermitano, but all were Sicilians, as were Accardo and Giancana, unlike Patriarca and Genovese, or Accardo-era Commission reps like Costello, Anastasia, and Joe Ida. Accardo neglected to put Profaci in with the other three, but he is noting that the Sicilians voted as a bloc, which would seem to align with Bonanno’s account of the “conservative faction” on the Commission.

In a different part of the same conversation, Accardo and Giancana note that LaRocca was Pittsburgh boss, but don’t seem to discuss him as part of the Commission, though we have enough otherwise to conclude that LaRocca did have a seat.

I posted this further comment but apparently got logged out while doing so, thus it had me as “Guest”.

[B.]

Great job, Fab.

Someone should have replaced Patriarca when he had to give up his seat, maybe that was LaRocca. Joe Bonanno's problems with Frank Desimone started because Bonanno repped LA on the Commission but Desimone violated protocol by consulting with LaRocca instead.

Freddy Santantonio told the FBI John Scalish of Cleveland had a seat in the early 1960s but Lonardo says they reported to the Genovese going back to the 1920s. The Commission didn't exist back then and Lonardo wasn't made until the 1940s so he may have been unaware of Cleveland having a seat for a short time in the 30s, though I trust him that Scalish didn't have a seat later on.

[PolackTony]

Great job, Fab.

+1, excellent work as always.

Someone should have replaced Patriarca when he had to give up his seat, maybe that was LaRocca. Joe Bonanno's problems with Frank Desimone started because Bonanno repped LA on the Commission but Desimone violated protocol by consulting with LaRocca instead.

Good point. Patriarca had to step down from the Commission even though he was still boss of his Family; very well could be that this resolves the confusion around LaRocca. When exactly did Patriarca give up his seat? When exactly did the DeSimone/LaRocca thing happen?

Freddy Santantonio told the FBI John Scalish of Cleveland had a seat in the early 1960s but Lonardo says they reported to the Genovese going back to the 1920s. The Commission didn't exist back then and Lonardo wasn't made until the 1940s so he may have been unaware of Cleveland having a seat for a short time in the 30s, though I trust him that Scalish didn't have a seat later on.

I agree on Scalish. Lonardo doesn’t support it, and we also don’t see him mentioned by either of the Bonannos or the Chicago wiretap.

[B.]

- Not sure when Patriarca gave up his spot, guessing before the 1960s. It almost sounds like Zerilli replaced him, not sure when he's first referenced but Accardo mentions him joining the Commission after he says Carlo Gambino got a "probationary" seat post-Anastasia but we know these conversations aren't always chronological to say the least.

- Bonanno became LA's avugad in 1956 after Dragna died and things came to a head around 1961 when he tried to use Bomp and Fratianno to set up Desimone by lying about a Desimone-sanctioned murder contract on Bomp. Not sure when the problems with Desimone started but that would coincide with LaRocca being on the Commission.

- Reportedly Desimone was also going to other East Coast bosses in addition to LaRocca and this fits something Magaddino said about Desimone coming to him about a problem and Magaddino wondering why he didn't go to Joe Bonanno in nearby Arizona. Magaddino said he encouraged Desimone to step down after he was elected LA boss as he felt Desimone wasn't qualified for membership let alone leadership so he def wasn't a fan.

- The different accounts show that Joe Bonanno's attempted takeover in LA was dirty and underhanded but as usual there's more to the story given Desimone was violating national rules by seeking out other Commission reps/bosses other than his own. What's funny is JB tried to do that himself when he requested a favor from Frank Balistrieri without Sam Giancana's involvement and Giancana harshly reprimanded Balistrieri for leaving him out of the process. Might be why Balistrieri was so enraged when a Bonanno member visited Milwaukee in the 1960s without approval and made threatening comments to Pistone when he visited in the 70s -- Chicago probably put him on edge about the rules.

--

It makes a lot more sense JB used an infraction on Desimone's part as an opening rather than the typical story we hear about him randomly sending Bill Bonanno and his 40 Thieves to take over. Someone like Joe Bonanno is always going to have some half-cocked justification for a scheme like that which he can then use to explain his actions (Cosa Nostra 101).

The events as I understand them:

- Desimone is supposed to report directly to Bonanno on the Commission but goes around him to other bosses like LaRocca and Magaddino.
- Bonanno probably has cartoon rage and wants to kill Desimone but knows he can't do it directly.
- Bonanno has Tony Bello meet with Bomp, Fratianno, and Biagio Bonventre where he tells them Desimone has plans to bomb Bomp's car.
- Bomp's daughter and grandkid use the same car, he flies into a rage and goes to LA where he, Fratianno, and Bonventre surveil the LA leaders for several days.
- Instead of killing Desimone, they kidnap LA captain Angelo Polizzi at gunpoint and take him to meet with Bello but Polizzi denies there's a murder contract and Bello admits it was a ruse designed to take out the LA leadership so Bonanno could take over.
- The Commission is informed and most of them criticize Bomp's actions but sympathized with him, Bello telling them he was forced into the scheme by Bonanno.

The Bill Bonanno and the 40 Thieves story is mentioned by high-level sources but I'm not sure exactly how it fits in, who the 40 men were, or what the plan was. Were the 40 guys Bonanno members/associates who were going to filter into LA after Desimone was killed? Was Bill going to transfer and become LA boss? Either way it shows Accardo wasn't off-base in thinking Bill's promotion in Arizona was a bad omen -- side note but I wonder if saying Joe made Bill a "boss" in Arizona was them saying capodecina since Chicago used the literal translation of capo=boss or if they perceived that JB was trying to create a Family there.

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Long post, everyone please check out Fab's great blog.

[B.]

Another interesting scenario worth mentioning...

- Shortly after the death of Vito Genovese in early 1969 Rocco Scafidi was told by his uncle Joe that Nick Civella's brother Carl was supposed to move to New York and take over both the Genovese Family and Vito's former Commission seat. This was prompted by a newspaper article that made this claim but the original source who told Joe Scafidi was underboss Ignazio Denaro.

- In a follow-up discussion a little over a week later Joe Scafidi backtracked about Carl Civella becoming Genovese boss but Rocco was under the impression Carl Civella would definitely join the Commission based on this conversation.

- The FBI learned fourteen Kansas City members led by Carl Civella did travel to Florida a couple weeks earlier as part of an annual vacation they took together and an NYC source was told by Genovese captain Tommy Greco that while in Miami the KC group made it known they didn't want Tommy Eboli on the Commission and instead wanted someone from the Midwest to fill Genovese's slot. This upset the mafiosi they spoke to in Miami.

- Obviously the game of telephone was at play, as Carl Civella was ID'd by the FBI as a capodecina at the time so it makes no sense he'd join the Commission but maybe there's some truth to the idea that KC wanted the spot for his brother Nick. Chicago was typically an ally of the Genovese Family but maybe they were backing KC given the close relationship/proximity. Having Commission seats in both Chicago and KC would greatly pivot mafia politics toward the Midwest and we know from the Accardo/Giancana tape they were deeply concerned about NYC exerting influence out west. Can't imagine KC would make this suggestion without having spoken to their avugad in Chicago and having their support.

- The idea of Carl Civella becoming Genovese boss is absurd and can be dismissed but he did do federal prison time with Liborio Bellomo circa 1940 and they lived in the same wing. Maybe he maintained some contact with the Genovese Family but Bellomo was at most an elderly soldier and can't imagine that'd be enough to give the Civellas influence. They didn't like Eboli though according to Greco so they must have had some interaction with him.

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Probably a last-ditch effort by the Midwestern Families to shift the power away from New York but in an earlier era maybe it wouldn't have been so unrealistic. Would have been a win/win for Chicago as the Genovese Family keeping their seat would work in their favor as would KC taking it. Curious if Chicago was having problems with Eboli.

[motorfab]

Great job, Fab.

+1, excellent work as always.

As always I don't know, but thank you very much gentlemen, much appreciated !

Long post, everyone please check out Fab's great blog.

Man, I will hired you to promote my blog all over the world !

More seriously, no prob for the long posts, on the contrary, I'm happy if my Commission thing allow to debate. I can't debate too much about this because you are all more knowledgable than me for this, but regarding the membership of the Commission I find this during my researchs https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... commission

As I wasn't sure for Scalish, I didn't added him to the list, but in your opinions, should I added him ? My guess was he was one of these guys Bill mentioned as occasional members so I don't know

Regarding Bonanno/DeSimone, during my researchs when I did my article about SD, I find this report saying it was Joe LiMandri the "informant" of Bello, but it's possible I misunderstood https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... california

But here it looks it's Polizzi, so I'm confused https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ndri_bello

[B.]

Oh interesting, so he mentioned Polizzi and LiMandri in different interviews. Polizzi would make more sense since he was a captain and closer to Desimone/Licata but not sure how to explain it. Maybe they spoke to both of them since LiMandri is said to have been the one who told Bello about the murder contract on Bomp while Polizzi was kidnapped because of his position under Desimone.

I think we can fully discount Scalish since Lonardo was made around 1949, close to Scalish, and knew them to report to the Genovese throughout his time in the Family. There's a wiretap where Scalish talked about receiving instructions not to recognize the Bonanno Family in 1964 and he doesn't give any indication he was on the Commission.

[B.]

Bit of clarification on LaRocca:

- In February 1965 Louis LaRasso was under the impression John LaRocca was on the Commission (LaRasso was a previous NJ underboss) but Sam said he wasn't on it. LaRasso asked if John LaRocca reports to the "Metropolitan area" (NYC) and Sam said yes. Sam then brings up how the Commission seats are supposed to be changed every five years.

- In a different conversation Sam said LaRocca once had issues in his Family and the Commission made him relinquish his official title temporarily but he apparently continued to run the Pittsburgh Family he just had to run everything by the Commission. They then gave him his official title back after problems were resolved. Maybe this is what led to him losing his Commission seat.

- Bill Bonanno was wrong about LaRocca retiring to Italy but I'm thinking he confused him with Joe Ida who left for Italy at that time. He said LaRocca was replaced on the Commission by Angelo Bruno which lends itself to that but he's very clear that LaRocca was from Pittsburgh. Even though Joe Ida had a seat before he left we can't assume Philadelphia's seat was continuous even though Bruno got one a couple years later as Domenico Pollina's situation was exactly like Joe Magliocco in that he wasn't fully ratified as official boss and didn't have a seat on the Commission. Bruno's 1959/1960 election to the Commission might well have come from John LaRocca losing his spot rather than inheriting it directly from Ida and Bill confused some of the circumstances.

[motorfab]

New article dedicated to a series of murders linked to the Calabrian mafia in Queensland in the 1920s & 30s https://unehistoiredecrimeorganise.blog ... sland.html

[Antiliar]

Looking forward to reading it.

[Villain]

New article dedicated to a series of murders linked to the Calabrian mafia in Queensland in the 1920s & 30s https://unehistoiredecrimeorganise.blog ... sland.html

Great stuff and thanks Fab.

For what its worth, in 1967 with the help of legit companies controlled by Chicago associate Allen Rothman, the Outfit made shipments of vending machines around Japan and Australia. They often had their own contacts in the countries they made shipments to but I dont have any info on who were their contacts in Australia, although I know the Outfit had office there. In addition, Rothman was a front for Alex, Larner and the whole syndicate.

[Eline2015]

Great article, Fabien

[Angelo Santino]

(I changed this thread to a "sticky" like I did with Eric's work. I thought I had already done it but I guess I didn't. Sorry.)

Great work, BTW!