General Mob Questions

[johnny_scootch]

These cant be the same DeCiccos as the gotti ones , right???

Jeremy I’ve never watched any of Calandra’s videos but Bobby DeCicco is the son of Georgie DeCicco former Gambino captain and nephew of Frank the former underboss.

Was calandra known to associate wjth them?

They’re all from the same neighborhood so it’s very likely.

[B.]

George DeCicco's club was two doors down from Spero's club and Calandra said his apartment was around the corner on the same block as both clubs so he grew up going to both. Calandra said he was close to the DeCiccos and Fappianos as a kid.

[Sullycantwell]

Can anyone be made into both America and Sicily, but without transferring membership. So a member of both an american family and Sicilian family at the same time? I remember John Pennisi talking about a Gambino member who was, but cant recall if he was a member in two families at the same time.

[johnny_scootch]

Can anyone be made into both America and Sicily, but without transferring membership. So a member of both an american family and Sicilian family at the same time? I remember John Pennisi talking about a Gambino member who was, but cant recall if he was a member in two families at the same time.

I am of the opinion that members must transfer their membership from one family to the next, never having allegiance to multiple bosses at the same time but would love to know what other people think maybe even get some examples of guys who were members of multiple Cosa Nostra families simultaneously if I am in fact wrong.

[PolackTony]

Can anyone be made into both America and Sicily, but without transferring membership. So a member of both an american family and Sicilian family at the same time? I remember John Pennisi talking about a Gambino member who was, but cant recall if he was a member in two families at the same time.

I am of the opinion that members must transfer their membership from one family to the next, never having allegiance to multiple bosses at the same time but would love to know what other people think maybe even get some examples of guys who were members of multiple Cosa Nostra families simultaneously if I am in fact wrong.

My understanding is that by definition it’s not possible, of course. Examples where guys here may have thought a guy was made into Families “on both sides” would probably just be based on faulty assumptions (eg, a guy who is formally a member of a Sicilian Family but plugged into a US Family’s network here). If anyone does have a potential case, it would be interesting to discuss and see if that was really what was going on.

Now, a guy can be both a member of another “mafia”, like the ‘Ndrangheta and Camorra, and Cosa Nostra, of course, but this is obviously not the same question. I could imagine, however, that this could cause confusion for people who might then think that one could simultaneously be a member of both a Sicilian and US CN Family.

[johnny_scootch]

Now, a guy can be both a member of another “mafia”, like the ‘Ndrangheta and Camorra, and Cosa Nostra, of course, but this is obviously not the same question. I could imagine, however, that this could cause confusion for people who might then think that one could simultaneously be a member of both a Sicilian and US CN Family.

I think even the examples of these we can come up with have their stipulations. In John Dickies book he lists a few very powerful Ndrangheta bosses who became members of Sicilian Cosa Nostra but this didn’t mean they could be sent out on hits or have to kick up to the Sicilian family they were inducted into. It was more of an honorary thing I believe to make conducting business between the two mafias easier. I don’t think there are any examples of an active lower ranked Ndranghetisti being inducted into Cosa Nostra and also being active with them too as it would create a conflict having two bosses to answer to.

As for Camorra I don’t believe they’re a formal organization in Italy after the Viterbo trial in 1910 so one could be considered a Camorristi and come to America and be inducted into Cosa Nostra with no problem at all.

It would be great to hear what others think about this.

[PolackTony]

Now, a guy can be both a member of another “mafia”, like the ‘Ndrangheta and Camorra, and Cosa Nostra, of course, but this is obviously not the same question. I could imagine, however, that this could cause confusion for people who might then think that one could simultaneously be a member of both a Sicilian and US CN Family.

I think even the examples of these we can come up with have their stipulations. In John Dickies book he lists a few very powerful Ndrangheta bosses who became members of Sicilian Cosa Nostra but this didn’t mean they could be sent out on hits or have to kick up to the Sicilian family they were inducted into. It was more of an honorary thing I believe to make conducting business between the two mafias easier. I don’t think there are any examples of an active lower ranked Ndranghetisti being inducted into Cosa Nostra and also being active with them too as it would create a conflict having two bosses to answer to.

As for Camorra I don’t believe they’re a formal organization in Italy after the Viterbo trial in 1910 so one could be considered a Camorristi and come to America and be inducted into Cosa Nostra with no problem at all.

It would be great to hear what others think about this.

Good points. I am definitely not overstating the significance of the few cases of "dual membership" that we have, but rather just pointing out that it did happen in limited circumstances with other Italian "societies", whereas it presumably could not with CN.

Yes, from what we know the 'Ndranghetisti inducted into CN seem to have been high-ranking members of the former and the practice was limited to what seems like an "honorary" membership in CN.

With respect to the post-Viterbo Camorra, I'd agree that the old Neapolitan "Honored Society" appears to have collapsed and devolved into loose groups that coalesced around street-corner guappi, at least in urban Napoli (the situation in the Campanian provinces during this period is much less clear to me). I was referring to later Camorristi like Michele Zaza who were made by Sicilian CN, and the "Nuova Famiglia" was clearly an attempt to reinvigorate the Camorra as an organized "society". But, those cases were again limited to bosses of their own groups who were inducted into CN as apparently "honorary" members to cement ties of affiliation between the organizations.

Now, with Sicilian and US CN, I'm not aware of any such "honorary" dual memberships, but the US and Sicilian CN are cousin/cognate societies and the relationships between the two are not comparable to the relationships between CN and other Italian groups.

We also have the interesting case in the US of the NE Ohio Calabrian Camorra. For example, Dom Mallamo was both a member of the Pitt LCN and the boss of his own local Calabrian group. While the Romeo/Mallamo Calabrian group was thus, in organizational LCN terms, subordinate to the Pitt "outfit", CIs in the 60s claimed that Romeo and Mallamo were under the Milanos in Cleveland. This was of course a complex situation that reflected a particular and longstanding local history of interaction -- it also reflected a terrain where LCN was dominant and other Italian organizations by then only existed in vestigial or localized form, largely absorbed into LCN decades before.

[LarryC]

Can anyone be made into both America and Sicily, but without transferring membership. So a member of both an american family and Sicilian family at the same time? I remember John Pennisi talking about a Gambino member who was, but cant recall if he was a member in two families at the same time.

No. A member cannot be made into both Sicilian and American mafia. You either pledge your allegiance to Palermo or the US. They liken it to the military, being that if there was a war, which side would you fight for.

[PolackTony]

Can anyone be made into both America and Sicily, but without transferring membership. So a member of both an american family and Sicilian family at the same time? I remember John Pennisi talking about a Gambino member who was, but cant recall if he was a member in two families at the same time.

No. A member cannot be made into both Sicilian and American mafia. You either pledge your allegiance to Palermo or the US. They liken it to the military, being that if there was a war, which side would you fight for.

A soldier can't be assigned to more than one commanding officer either. So even in the US mafia, for example, one can't simultaneously have formal membership in two Families, or in two crews of the same Family.

[LarryC]

Can anyone be made into both America and Sicily, but without transferring membership. So a member of both an american family and Sicilian family at the same time? I remember John Pennisi talking about a Gambino member who was, but cant recall if he was a member in two families at the same time.

No. A member cannot be made into both Sicilian and American mafia. You either pledge your allegiance to Palermo or the US. They liken it to the military, being that if there was a war, which side would you fight for.

A soldier can't be assigned to more than one commanding officer either. So even in the US mafia, for example, one can't simultaneously have formal membership in two Families, or in two crews of the same Family.

Of course. You're exactly right.

[Sullycantwell]

thanks for the replies guys, great info.

[MichaelGiovanni]

So for someone like Carlo Gambino who was allegedly made in Sicily, and no doubt countless others from the early days, a formal transfer had to take place?

[johnny_scootch]

So for someone like Carlo Gambino who was allegedly made in Sicily, and no doubt countless others from the early days, a formal transfer had to take place?

If he was made in Sicily (which I’m not sure if he was) yes he would have had to transfer his membership from his Sicilian family (Passo di Ragano?) to the D’Aquila family. Besides his cousins the Castellanos who were already D’Aquila members vouching for him he would have needed a letter from his prior Boss vouching for him and giving him permission to join another family. I guess if you go back far enough before there were organized families in certain cities this process couldn’t happen and individual members probably just coalesced to form a new group.

[Ivan]

What, if anything, is Sal Catalano up to these days? Retired?

[PolackTony]

What, if anything, is Sal Catalano up to these days? Retired?

He lives in his hometown of Ciminna. I believe that he may have attended Frank Cali’s mother’s funeral there, as she was also from Ciminna. No idea what relationship he was to the local mafia though I’d wonder if and when he transferred.