Mob Talk - 1/25/16

[joeycigars]

Montreal, Philadelphia... why do these topics all get polluted with nonsense and bullshit? Some of you need to dial it back.

Huge 10 page topics like this should have page after page of interesting discussion and new info, not "what would Merlino be like if he came up in NYC" and "does he seem more like a gang leader or a mob boss?" Listen to yourselves.

A few people said Merlino is smart, I can't debate that with them? Threads always go slightly off track, that's how they keep going.

The quality of this discussion is fucking garbage and below this board.

The Merlino threads are for us low IQ posters thats how we roll , Thas the melanzana part of the Sicilian brain, Lets us live "B"

[B.]

Let's look at the Philly family...

Sabella, boss for over a decade with strong ties to the Bonanno family who retired at 40 and spent the rest of his life outside of Philadelphia. Though it's never been 100% proven why he stepped down, Sabella lost a lot of his stature after his retirement and was a nobody in the family by the time he died many years later.

Avena took over for Sabella and lasted several years in South Philadelphia before he was killed by a non-made rival Italian gang.

Dovi/Bruno ran the family remotely first from outside of Trenton and then New Brunswick. No major issues known during much of his run.

Ida ran the family remotely from New Brunswick and expanded the membership with no major threats to his power that we know of. Was personally devastated by Appalachin and his own legal problems and fled to Italy where he stepped down as boss but hoped to become an Italy-based Philly capodecina.

Pollina, who operated from the heart of South Philly, had a very brief run but was ultimately deposed and almost killed for the way he treated popular South Philly soldier Angelo Bruno, who had a close relationship with NY.

Bruno, like Pollina, was a constant presence in South Philadelphia. Though he had been a member for fewer years than a lot of his peers, he replaced his rival Pollina as boss. He lived in South Philly but Bruno was consumed by national mob politics, traveling, and legit business. He spent a great deal of time in Florida, both meeting with other families as well as handling his own interests there. He was killed in South Philly by underlings in South Philly and North Jersey who wished to take over.

Testa was the third boss in a row who lived and operated out of South Philly and his reign was short, being blown up by a rival South Philly faction.

Scarfo was based out of Atlantic City for many years and his run as boss was spent primarily in AC, prison, Florida, and more prison.

Stanfa originally lived in the heart of Philly but had been estranged from the city for a number of years before he became boss and wasn't a native to Philly or even the US. He was an outsider from Sicily who rested on the laurels of his Sicilian ties. Went to war with his young rivals, whom he made into the family, before he was taken down by the FBI and forced to relinquish his title.

Natale, who in his heyday was a union enforcer for the Philly family, got out of prison and was quickly made and promoted boss. Lived just over the bridge from Philly in South Jersey as boss but had limited influence next to his underboss Merlino. Ultimately flipped.

Merlino from South Philly has been the official boss since around '99 and much of that has been spent in prison. Long believed to have had his title taken by Joe Ligambi, it came out on wiretaps from 2011 that Ligambi was still an acting boss who recognized Merlino as his official boss. Since then, his close friend Mazzone has also allegedly helped run the organization. Since his release from prison, Merlino has spent most of his time in Florida and has allegedly been visiting South Philadelphia and South Jersey more recently, where he is believed to remain the official boss, possibly the second longest in family history.

A lovable group of misfits. What do they have in common? All bosses of the same Philadelphia family, which has been around more than a hundred years, each with their own unique story. That much is fact. Another fact is that the bosses based in South Philly seem to have had a rougher time than the other ones who have run the family -- with that in mind maybe it's a good thing Merlino spends so much time in FL? I don't know, when you compare him to the full list he doesn't look too bad on paper. Angelo Bruno was the longest running boss, a wealthy businessman, and also possibly the most influential Philly boss when it comes to national mob politics, but he ended up with the back of his head blown off. Was he "smart" or "lucky"?

[B.]

I think B's response is over the top.

The tangent in conversation was good natured and has somewhat of a point. Merlinos 'quality' as a gangster. Would his skill set be transferable or was it more his environment which allowed him to prosper.

Sometimes I think the 'ruling clique' here need to develop a little patience in exercing latitude when it comes to material slightly not to their specific tastes.

As in, can we all get over oursleves a little.

I'm over the top on here sometimes, sure, but I'm completely over myself. That's why I try to stick to conversations that use facts and context, not start blind arguments based on my feelings.

There is no ruling clique, I only speak for myself which is why I turned down being a mod in the past. I just want to do my thing like you do, but I see the same people challenging reasonable info and ideas over and over.

Joey Merlino and Vincent Basciano are something like two or three years apart and cut from the same mold in certain ways, but one is serving a life sentence and the other is living it up as a free man. Would Basciano be in Merlino's position if he grew up in South Philadelphia? Would Merlino be serving a life sentence if he grew up in the Bronx? Was Basciano dumb or unlucky? Is Merlino smart or lucky? Who has better hair and clothes?

[Angelo Santino]

It's just another version of "Had Frankie DeCicco become boss..."

Merlino to me, is a watered down version of Al Capone when you consider they began as associated outsiders, challenged the leadership, earned alliances with stronger mob powers in other cities and used that to "take over" their respective cities. That doesn't happen very often. They were at the right place and the right time.

[Lupara]

Let's look at the Philly family...

Sabella, boss for over a decade with strong ties to the Bonanno family who retired at 40 and spent the rest of his life outside of Philadelphia. Though it's never been 100% proven why he stepped down, Sabella lost a lot of his stature after his retirement and was a nobody in the family by the time he died many years later.

Avena took over for Sabella and lasted several years in South Philadelphia before he was killed by a non-made rival Italian gang.

Dovi/Bruno ran the family remotely first from outside of Trenton and then New Brunswick. No major issues known during much of his run.

Ida ran the family remotely from New Brunswick and expanded the membership with no major threats to his power that we know of. Was personally devastated by Appalachin and his own legal problems and fled to Italy where he stepped down as boss but hoped to become an Italy-based Philly capodecina.

Pollina, who operated from the heart of South Philly, had a very brief run but was ultimately deposed and almost killed for the way he treated popular South Philly soldier Angelo Bruno, who had a close relationship with NY.

Bruno, like Pollina, was a constant presence in South Philadelphia. Though he had been a member for fewer years than a lot of his peers, he replaced his rival Pollina as boss. He lived in South Philly but Bruno was consumed by national mob politics, traveling, and legit business. He spent a great deal of time in Florida, both meeting with other families as well as handling his own interests there. He was killed in South Philly by underlings in South Philly and North Jersey who wished to take over.

Testa was the third boss in a row who lived and operated out of South Philly and his reign was short, being blown up by a rival South Philly faction.

Scarfo was based out of Atlantic City for many years and his run as boss was spent primarily in AC, prison, Florida, and more prison.

Stanfa originally lived in the heart of Philly but had been estranged from the city for a number of years before he became boss and wasn't a native to Philly or even the US. He was an outsider from Sicily who rested on the laurels of his Sicilian ties. Went to war with his young rivals, whom he made into the family, before he was taken down by the FBI and forced to relinquish his title.

Natale, who in his heyday was a union enforcer for the Philly family, got out of prison and was quickly made and promoted boss. Lived just over the bridge from Philly in South Jersey as boss but had limited influence next to his underboss Merlino. Ultimately flipped.

Merlino from South Philly has been the official boss since around '99 and much of that has been spent in prison. Long believed to have had his title taken by Joe Ligambi, it came out on wiretaps from 2011 that Ligambi was still an acting boss who recognized Merlino as his official boss. Since then, his close friend Mazzone has also allegedly helped run the organization. Since his release from prison, Merlino has spent most of his time in Florida and has allegedly been visiting South Philadelphia and South Jersey more recently, where he is believed to remain the official boss, possibly the second longest in family history.

A lovable group of misfits. What do they have in common? All bosses of the same Philadelphia family, which has been around more than a hundred years, each with their own unique story. That much is fact. Another fact is that the bosses based in South Philly seem to have had a rougher time than the other ones who have run the family -- with that in mind maybe it's a good thing Merlino spends so much time in FL? I don't know, when you compare him to the full list he doesn't look too bad on paper. Angelo Bruno was the longest running boss, a wealthy businessman, and also possibly the most influential Philly boss when it comes to national mob politics, but he ended up with the back of his head blown off. Was he "smart" or "lucky"?

Great summary! I'm not quite sure why I never had that much interest in Philly, probably because of Montreal, but the more I read about it the more intrigued I become. Fortunately there is a huge amount of info available about this family along with plently of experts on this forum, which makes it fairly easy to catch up.

[phatmatress777]

Merlino doesn't sound like a smart guy at all, sounds very lucky to me.

Say what you want about merlino but he's been boss of a family for close to 20 years and he's never been caught on a wire saying anything very incriminating, never been convicted of the numerous hits he's been involved in, and he's not doing life. His guys are loyal to him which is the main reason he's not doing life. Must be doing something right most guys don't make it 5 years. Of course luck plays a role though

Put him as the boss of any other family and he'd fail miserably.

That's an irrelevant argument that doesn't hold water, try again.

Is it? Merlino and his crew are more like a street gang then CN. He wouldn't have got far in NY with his attitude.

Look at my response to Sonny for the NY argument, Joey wouldn't have been what he was if he was a Brooklyn or Bronx guy because the climate of things in NY are different, so there's no comparison worth anyone's time.

Joey's father was the underboss and his uncle was a skipper, his friends outside of Mazzone are the sons, nephews or brothers of other made guys, he's been around and close with made guys all his life. You can say he's "more like a gang leader then CN", but fact is he's been a made guy for roughly 25 years and outside of the Sodano bullshit, which he was in the right, NY/NJ never had a problem with him as boss. Look at all the bosses from the 80s and 90s, how many are still on the street? Just him, and it's not by accident.

So he wouldn't have bet into his friends books or not pay bookies if he was from NY? Sounds like Merlino would have grown up to be a piece of shit, no matter where he's from.

merlino's spent what, 4 years free since being made boss 16 years ago? and got indicted the same year he was made boss.

New York's interest certainly isn't what it was when it comes to Philly.

He allows top members to hang around with KNOWN rats, like i said he comes across more a gang leader then CN boss.

From what I understand he didn't bet into his friends and not pay. Him and his friends bet into guys like previte who weren't even made guys and didn't pay. Guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree though

An article said he bet into Johnny Changs book and didn't pay, some other made member as well i forget, someone posted it on bb not too long back. Couldn;t believe it.

prove it....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cheech]

Merlino didnt bet into a Chang book and not pay. thats not how it works. you find books that arent "with" anyone and then you bet in to them. then you offer to make them "partners".

tommy, you may be talking about this article?

http://articles.philly.com/2001-06-21/n ... on-witness

[joeycigars]

Is Merlino lucky ? You have to look at his whole inner circle too...Are they just lucky , If most people try to do what these guys have done will it just take luck ?,

The answer is NO . Its not luck , For the record Merlino has had some very bad luck and wasnt handed the throne he went and got it,

If it was luck ....Just maybe there is a 100 other ways he could have risen to the top spot very easy through his Father and uncle but it didnt happen that way , So he shot the TWO bosses sons Stanfa and Scarfo and won a deadly war ,Merlino did it the hardest way possible, If people call that luck then I hate to have there luck

[Sol]

Is Merlino lucky ? You have to look at his whole inner circle too...Are they just lucky , If most people try to do what these guys have done will it just take luck ?,

The answer is NO . Its not luck , For the record Merlino has had some very bad luck and wasnt handed the throne he went and got it,

If it was luck ....Just maybe there is a 100 other ways he could have risen to the top spot very easy through his Father and uncle but it didnt happen that way , So he shot the TWO bosses sons Stanfa and Scarfo and won a deadly war ,Merlino did it the hardest way possible, If people call that luck then I hate to have there luck

I would say there is some luck to Merlino raise, but a lot more smarts and loyalty then luck. You could argue that every boss there ever was had some luck in his raise.......Soliai

[Pete]

Is Merlino lucky ? You have to look at his whole inner circle too...Are they just lucky , If most people try to do what these guys have done will it just take luck ?,

The answer is NO . Its not luck , For the record Merlino has had some very bad luck and wasnt handed the throne he went and got it,

If it was luck ....Just maybe there is a 100 other ways he could have risen to the top spot very easy through his Father and uncle but it didnt happen that way , So he shot the TWO bosses sons Stanfa and Scarfo and won a deadly war ,Merlino did it the hardest way possible, If people call that luck then I hate to have there luck

That is something I have wondered about why Joey was essentially a nobody when his father was the underboss? Did chucky not want him involved? There were guys like scafidi and Phil narducci that were same age or close to joeys age and they were made in the mid 80's under scarfo yet Joey didn't get his button till 93 or whatever under stanfa. Also does anyone know if chucky had any behind the scenes role in the war with stanfa?

[Chucky]

Joey wasn't a nobody when his father was around, far from it, he was already hanging around Chang's kids and was buddies with Nicky Jr, they all use to hang around Faffy's clubhouse.

Joey was made in '92 by the way

[Lupara]

Is Merlino lucky ? You have to look at his whole inner circle too...Are they just lucky , If most people try to do what these guys have done will it just take luck ?,

The answer is NO . Its not luck , For the record Merlino has had some very bad luck and wasnt handed the throne he went and got it,

If it was luck ....Just maybe there is a 100 other ways he could have risen to the top spot very easy through his Father and uncle but it didnt happen that way , So he shot the TWO bosses sons Stanfa and Scarfo and won a deadly war ,Merlino did it the hardest way possible, If people call that luck then I hate to have there luck

The only luck he had was when Stanfa was indicted.

[Ivan]

Yeah, this "lucky" thing has been used on him for too long to hold up. It's like people don't want to admit to his ability for some weird reason.

As far as mobsters go, the guy seems to be pretty competent, as do a lot of those around him like Ciancaglini and Mazzone. I don't see how he's any worse at it than, say, his dad.

[Pogo The Clown]

He certainy had a lot of luck on his side. If Veasey's bullet had gone a few inches higher, if that bomb under his car had gone off or if any one of the countless murder plots aganst him had gone off he would be dead. So he had luck or maybe it was just the devil in him.


Pogo

[Ivan]

He certainy had a lot of luck on his side. If Veasey's bullet had gone a few inches higher, if that bomb under his car had gone off or if any one of the countless murder plots aganst him had gone off he would be dead.

He does get lucky a lot, but he's also proven himself capable.

So he had luck or maybe it was just the devil in him.

"They can't kill me. I got the devil in me."