Organization & Operation revisited

[B.]

Good post, Peppino.

[Angelo Santino]

Both D'Amico and DiBella are good examples of organizational, same could be said for Gambino captain Garofalo. None of these men were hardened criminals in the traditional sense yet they all joined and eventually held rank. If it were purely a criminal organization you would think these slots went to those who generated substantial criminal proceeds, just goes to show there's more to this than what readily meets the outside eye.

Theres many reasons for why someone can get made- bloodlines, criminality, connections, childhood friendship. Same goes for captains on up.

All good points, gentlemen.

[Don_Peppino]

Even the Bosses themselves have differing operating styles. The Genoveses, Chicago and Joe Bonanno are prime examples of different leadership styles.

[Angelo Santino]

According to DiLeonardo, 10% went up. I dont know if that was a universal set amount or just what sent up. Whereas the Bonannos apparently didnt require kickups. The Colombos allegedly bleed their crews. According to Pennisi, he made it sound like Christmas pickups were the big thing.

This is part of the mafia ingenuity, there are no set rules for this which makes it flexible.

There are people more expertise in the modern stuff so correct me if I'm wrong on something or someone has more to elaborate.

[Snakes]

According to DiLeonardo, 10% went up. I dont know if that was a universal set amount or just what sent up. Whereas the Bonannos apparently didnt require pickups. The Colombos allegedly bleed their crews. According to Pennisi, he made it sound like Christmas pickups were the big thing.

This is part of the mafia ingenuity, there are no set rules for this which makes it flexible.

There are people more expertise in the modern stuff so correct me if I'm wrong on something or someone has more to elaborate.

Yeah, I think it varies family to family and racket to racket.

Scarpelli said he would take a "salary" of $2,000 out of the monthly street tax collections, which ran anywhere from 10k to 30k. Minus additional expenses, anywhere from 13 to 20k would go to Infelise (Scarpelli's acting capo at the time). Rocky took a cut of that and the remainder was whacked up among the "top bosses" like Carlisi (boss), Ferriola (capo), and "others."

[chin_gigante]

Joe Massino was obviously in a unique position to describe his income at the very top of a family, and it's interesting to contrast what he had to say with the overgeneralisation of the boss getting a cut of everything.

- every member was to kick up $1,000 at Christmas unless they were broke, in which case they didn't have to give anything (receiving a total of about $150,000-$160,000 a year)
- monthly tribute from a few captains ($2,000 from Frank Coppa, $1,200 from Richie Cantarella, $500-$600 from Tony Urso)
- partners with Sal Vitale in a loan shark operation where they lent money to the captains for one point (estimates the most money he had on the street at one time was $400,000-$500,000), with personal income on an average week being about $2,000
- extortion money from trucking companies at Kennedy Airport (started off at $10,000 a month, went down to $800 a month)
- annual extortion money from an electrician ($4,000 split evenly with Anthony Mannino)
- a sports betting business he turned over to Patty DeFilippo (receiving $500 a week which he split evenly with Vitale)
- a joker poker machine business
- a baccarat game run from November to January in partnership with the Gambino family (Louie Restivo and Frank Navarra representing the Bonannos, Bobby Bernace representing the Gambinos)
- personally receiving about $25,000 a year from the Bonanno family's control of the Feast of San Gennaro
- add to that his own income from his personal businesses

Tribute is a very good way of looking at the operational differences between different and administrations.

[Don_Peppino]

Don't hold me to the fire on this but I believe Gravano once said that because tribute is not a "requirement" one of the things Castellano did was loan money to his Capos, in essence, making them beholding to paying a tribute.

[B.]

Curious if DiLeonardo's 10 percent was for all operations or just construction. I remember seeing somewhere the Gambinos took 10 from construction but don't know if that applied to everything.

With Massino a lot of the money he got from certain members looks to be a return from his own investment or partnership in specific operations, not blanket tribute like the Christmas and birthday money. Vitale said when he was an associate on record with Massino he didn't have to give him a cut but split everything 50/50 to show his appreciation. Pete Zuccaro also testified when he was "with" Frank Bonomo he never had to give him any money from scores and Bonomo still repped him at sitdowns and helped him, said he never had to kick anything up.

[Angelo Santino]

I'll ask him.

[InCamelot]

"When you look at operational and organizational they tell different histories that intersect and overlap" - B

This helps me further understand why 'organizational' might be a necessary distinction. Glad this still turned out to be a great thread.

[PolackTony]

According to DiLeonardo, 10% went up. I dont know if that was a universal set amount or just what sent up. Whereas the Bonannos apparently didnt require pickups. The Colombos allegedly bleed their crews. According to Pennisi, he made it sound like Christmas pickups were the big thing.

This is part of the mafia ingenuity, there are no set rules for this which makes it flexible.

There are people more expertise in the modern stuff so correct me if I'm wrong on something or someone has more to elaborate.

Yeah, I think it varies family to family and racket to racket.

Scarpelli said he would take a "salary" of $2,000 out of the monthly street tax collections, which ran anywhere from 10k to 30k. Minus additional expenses, anywhere from 13 to 20k would go to Infelise (Scarpelli's acting capo at the time). Rocky took a cut of that and the remainder was whacked up among the "top bosses" like Carlisi (boss), Ferriola (capo), and "others."

Antiliar can chime in, but IIRC Mike Mags told him that Chicago guys kicked up 10% too, though it's unclear to me if this was true for any and all illegal income or just for specific operations.

We've discussed Scarpelli's account before and there are still questions as to whether the arrangement that he described pertained after he was made, as he hadn't been made long and had a long career as an associate (a lot of what Scarpelli told the FBI was, of course, specific to his time as an associate). Either way, I also wonder if street taxes were handled differently from racket operations like gambling and juice, as these latter require some degree of "start-up capital", so some of what may be seen as "kicking up" may in actuality be a "return on investment" to the guys who bankrolled the operation.

Street tax is interesting, as it really is the foundational mafia revenue-generating activity (the "pizzu"). The mafia clearly exercises a degree of quasi-state authority over both the underworld and certain sectors of legitimate enterprise (or at least it certainly did back in the day in Chicagoland), so to me the "tax" notion isn't just a metaphor, but reflects a state-like prerogative to collect revenues from their territory. For this reason, if anything was going to be kicked up the hierarchy, street taxes would presumably always be something going up.

We have an account from the early 70s by a Chicago CI (who I strongly suspect may have been Dick Cain) who said that Ricca and Accardo received no income from street activities at that point, as they neither needed the money nor wanted the heat. We also know that Ricca and Accardo were acting bosses serving in a provisional role then, however, so if they actually weren't receiving any kick that could also be part of it.

[PolackTony]

"When you look at operational and organizational they tell different histories that intersect and overlap" - B

This helps me further understand why 'organizational' might be a necessary distinction. Glad this still turned out to be a great thread.

Two facets or faces of the same complex set of phenomena; both are needed to fully understand the story, but it's a critical analytic distinction to demarcate which is which. If we understand the mafia as a social institution and a formally constituted organization, there are dynamics that are formal ("organizational") and informal ("operational"), the same as there would be with any other institution, like a state or a corporation. There are individuals, for example, who can exert tremendous political influence while not holding an actual office or position in the government by virtue of their personal relationships with those who do. Those relationships are not the same thing as the formal positions in the government (and the authority/legitimacy and structures that bind those positions together within an institution as a system), but if we want to understand how a particular administration worked at a particular time we need to understand both the formal and informal aspects of power and interaction between actors.

[Angelo Santino]

"When you look at operational and organizational they tell different histories that intersect and overlap" - B

This helps me further understand why 'organizational' might be a necessary distinction. Glad this still turned out to be a great thread.

Two facets or faces of the same complex set of phenomena; both are needed to fully understand the story, but it's a critical analytic distinction to demarcate which is which. If we understand the mafia as a social institution and a formally constituted organization, there are dynamics that are formal ("organizational") and informal ("operational"), the same as there would be with any other institution, like a state or a corporation. There are individuals, for example, who can exert tremendous political influence while not holding an actual office or position in the government by virtue of their personal relationships with those who do. Those relationships are not the same thing as the formal positions in the government (and the authority/legitimacy and structures that bind those positions together within an institution as a system), but if we want to understand how a particular administration worked at a particular time we need to understand both the formal and informal aspects of power and interaction between actors.

See, I might have coined Org and Op but you and Eric have articulated it better than I ever could. You also pointed out things that I myself didn't see.

I went into this in my first post but I'd appreciate your thoughts re. Capo lieutenants ie Acting Captains/Personal Underbosses. We know the mafia didn't create an entire new rank otherwise they would have given it a new name. "Personal under" or "Acting capo" sounds informal or unofficial. "The Commission decided that each Capodecina is to have a second called tenente." That never appeared to happened since they use terms like Acting despite the official being on the street and free of legal trouble.

They are recognized, but .. appreciate yours and Eric's thoughts. You're both teaching me now.

In the 170 years that the Mafia has existed in America, these are only three "additions" that seem to have been implemented. There's Acting Captains, Ruling Panels (composed of captains) and the Genovese Messagero (also composed of a capo). These seem operational to me. As I previously stated, Chin didn't pull Cirillo aside and say "Ok, appoint a capo in your place because I'm creating a whole new position for you, called Messagero." Instead it seems like an operational function for an already existing capodecina.

These aside, each and every family is a replica of each other, some might not have consig (Magaddino), smaller ones might not have captains, but there's no evidence of a single mafia family every adding new ranks like "generale" or "bruglione." It's always been a very static conservative beast, slow to change in terms of org. Op is an entirely different matter, that seems more organic.

Appreciate your thoughts and expertise. Rick and Chin too.

[InCamelot]

Re-read the thread, and it appears that a significant amount of disagreement regarding this subject might be rooted in whether you believe LCN to be a criminal enterprise first and foremost, or not (which was a good thread as well).

From the POV of those that might not see a clear need to differentiate organization vs operational, they might think the purely organizational aspects are arbitrary and "not really there" if the operational aspects alone are able to run the criminal enterprise.

Villain asked: but dont you think that 90% of the ORGANIZATIONAL cases are mainly tied to finances? Meaning the system of representation is mainly created by finances. Without it, there would be no system, right? Because whats the point of it? We are talking about CRIMINAL subculture here, right?

Angelo said (paraphrasing): No. The mafia is a network and its members can utilize that network to generate money, if they want to.

I don't recall Villain responding directly to this, but maybe because its relatively harder to prove with sources either side? I would presume the FBI isn't spending tax payer money to collect info on LCN's non-criminal activities. But this "yes it is" vs "no it isn't" is likely to continue challenge each other.

[CabriniGreen]

Re-read the thread, and it appears that a significant amount of disagreement regarding this subject might be rooted in whether you believe LCN to be a criminal enterprise first and foremost, or not (which was a good thread as well).

From the POV of those that might not see a clear need to differentiate organization vs operational, they might think the purely organizational aspects are arbitrary and "not really there" if the operational aspects alone are able to run the criminal enterprise.

Villain asked: but dont you think that 90% of the ORGANIZATIONAL cases are mainly tied to finances? Meaning the system of representation is mainly created by finances. Without it, there would be no system, right? Because whats the point of it? We are talking about CRIMINAL subculture here, right?

Angelo said (paraphrasing): No. The mafia is a network and its members can utilize that network to generate money, if they want to.

I don't recall Villain responding directly to this, but maybe because its relatively harder to prove with sources either side? I would presume the FBI isn't spending tax payer money to collect info on LCN's non-criminal activities. But this "yes it is" vs "no it isn't" is likely to continue challenge each other.

See, it's NOT based on business either legal OR illegal. It's based on POWER. This relentless pursuit of power puts them at odds with the legitimate power structure. You have Aristocrats who want to oppress, and civilians who oppose oppression, and the mafia in the middle playing both sides for its own benefit. With components from ALL THREE being recruited. It's the dynamic interactions between these classes that "Mafia" phenomenon emerges from. The mafia in Italy is actually its own SOCIAL CLASS. This is why it's not exactly possible for any American gang to truly really duplicate the mafia. The mafia origins are based in politics, and it's mission statement is bigger than immediate economic relief, or identity issues associated with disenfranchised youth.

First off, the mafia has SOME characteristics, but it's NOT a gang. The mafia doesn't RECRUIT like a gang, nor does it have a similar "mission statement". The mafia recruits more like a resistance movement or intelligence service. An intelligence service or resistance movement will go get the baker, the cabbie, the store clerk, the secretary that works in the local politicians office, a cop, a hooker, a doctor, a lawyer, a school teacher, basically all walks of society. This is why you see more examples of mobsters, especially in Italy or early in its history as basically regular people. But this doesn't stop the PURSUIT OF POWER, being a baker or even a doctor doesn't make you powerful, but a mafiosi MUST be self sufficient economically, as well as have a respectable front for his "good face to society".

So in Italy, you can be Nicolo Pidone, Minister of Forestry, whatever the hell that even means, lol. Or a doorman, or whatever. I know Guttadauro is a surgeon, but this guy left his post as Director of some Palermo hospital to move to Rome to oversee a bunch of mafia shit.
Micalizzi from Partanna Mondello. Think on this now....

The heirs of Rosario Ricobonno got their family fortune siezed back in the 80s or something right? All heroin proceeds. Put together a small real estate fortune under a holding company, corporation. The government did some slick shit, long story short, they had to give it all back. So this family has its multimillion dollar fortune returned to them completely intact after like 25 years or some shit. What do they do? Ride off into the sunset? No. They put the entire fortune at the disposal of a Mafiosi, Micalizzi not a financial advisor. He invest in heroin and coke through Iran and Turkey. I'm dead ass serious. This pursuit of power never stops. And mafiosi will manage ANY AND ALL assets that are within their territorial sphere of influence, be it legal OR ILLEGAL. Only in Italy would this be considered any kind of smart financial move. Imagine Todaro putting his Pizza fortune at the disposal of Dom Violi for a shipment from Canada? Nuts... right?

It changes when you get to the States. The mafia is NOT a social class here. In Italy, these guys are defacto Labor racketeers with no unions, lobbyist interacting with politicians, community organizers controlling votes, and these positions are practically hereditary, like inherited, well, almost. Not all families have working dynasties, but the point stands, I think.

This is why it switched to gangsterism when they get to the States. It's all business here, all money. The greater population is NEVER gonna look at the local wiseguy as the "True" authority. They had the SAME mission statement, POWER. But power in the states means Corporate level influence with government, the ability to buy politicians and judges. It's not possible to exercise control over votes here like in Italy. It's almost essentially a cartel of INFLUENCE BROKERS. The Carini boss recently brokered a sale of votes to some Sicilian insurance agent from New York. 6 euro a vote he paid. A hit of coke cost more than a fuckin vote in Italy. Think on that... Look at Zito and what he did in Sicily from Phily....

Schiavone was critical of the sicilians for "being obsessed with favors from politicians". To him, this wasn't business. But their primary concern isn't business, it's really power by ANY MEANS... if they wanted to be regular folk, they could. If they wanted to be honest businessmen, they could. If they wanted to be high professionals, they could. If they wanted to be a cabal of politicians, they COULD. THEY DONT. So either they are unwilling or unable.

Ultimately, I see them as criminal, not because of any particular operation, but because they are fundamentally opposed to law and order, seemingly even when opportunities to transition away from crime presents themselves.