toto wrote:What gave Fernandez the cajones to try and pass himself off as a stessa cosa in Sicily? I don't think anyone can answer with definity. And what gave Desjardin the thought that he could "take over" a mafia crew despite being non-Italian and not-made. I'd love to hear thoughts on this though all around. This is interesting shit.
I don't think that Desjardins was trying to take over the Rizzuto organization. I think that he just wanted them out of the way to gain more power for himself and his people.
As for Fernandez, the guy was a brute and bragging was part of his nature. Perhaps he was so stupid and arrogant that he truly saw himself as a made guy.
toto wrote:What gave Fernandez the cajones to try and pass himself off as a stessa cosa in Sicily? I don't think anyone can answer with definity. And what gave Desjardin the thought that he could "take over" a mafia crew despite being non-Italian and not-made. I'd love to hear thoughts on this though all around. This is interesting shit.
I don't think that Desjardins was trying to take over the Rizzuto organization. I think that he just wanted them out of the way to gain more power for himself and his people.
As for Fernandez, the guy was a brute and bragging was part of his nature. Perhaps he was so stupid and arrogant that he truly saw himself as a made guy.
Just my two cents.
Point taken on Desjardins.
Regarding Fernandez. that's possible. But made and not made is a pretty significant thing. You don't hear about alot of non-Italians claiming to be made. That Fernandez could claim such a thing in Palermo of all places is ballsy. He was either a retarded and ignorant criminal (which all evidence leads against) or he truly "believed" he was amico nos. I don't know honestly. I think it's just a question we should keep raising, not to argue it to general consensus but to raise questions to be answered if and when we have more intel. He could have been making it up because he liked to brag, he could have been actually ceremonied by Rizzuto, it could have have been a "you're one of us" misunderstandings, or he could have thought he could "pull it off." From what I see, each POV is possible. But until we get any factual reports, it's all opinion.
Chris Christie wrote:It just seems that Montreal's connections extended outside of the Italian colony, they made alliances with the local criminals (who weren't connected to a Sicilian Honored Society aka the Mafia) and they became their own New-World Crew, composed of made guys and non-members forming a vast and powerful ring. This is what made the Montreal Crew/decina/Family so influential. So much so that Desjardin and Fernandez believed enough they were a part of "it" to lay claim over it. Think a Montreal version of the Chicago Outfit: an inner circle of made guys, and influential underworld members every bit as influential in the Outfit as some of the made guys themselves.
I think that's a good analysis of how things were set up under the Rizzutos. I've also thought that they were similar to the Outfit even though Montreal was more Cosa Nostra than the Outfit ever was. The whole criminal landscape in Montreal was pretty much as you described, but the inner-core was more like a traditional Sicillian clan. I don't think that you have access to the RD forum anymore, but there is an old post there by Lee Lamothe about the structure of the Montreal Mafia. I consider that probably the best post I've ever read about Montreal, I think it's even better than anything he wrote in the Sixth Family.
You have to realize CC that Desjardins is the MOST powerful French-Canadian or non-Sicilian/Italian in Canada probably period. Like Lupara said, I don't think he so much wanted to take over, he just went along with things until Montagna felt the need to try and kill him. Desjardins was kind of the FC boss even under Rizzuto and holds a ton of power there among the non-Italians. Of course Rizzuto seemed to have seen this as not being loyal as he did with his brother in law Di Maulo.
As for Joe Bravo, I think he was just trying to strut there in Palermo and try to use Rizzuto's name to get folks to work with him and push drugs. Like you said though, we will probably never know his end game to that claim. I think he was just trying to stay important and was hoping Rizzuto was over thrown after he got out, and he obviously panicked when Rizzuto called him to the Dominican Republic and he didn't show up there or in Cuba and we know the rest.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
Chris Christie wrote:It just seems that Montreal's connections extended outside of the Italian colony, they made alliances with the local criminals (who weren't connected to a Sicilian Honored Society aka the Mafia) and they became their own New-World Crew, composed of made guys and non-members forming a vast and powerful ring. This is what made the Montreal Crew/decina/Family so influential. So much so that Desjardin and Fernandez believed enough they were a part of "it" to lay claim over it. Think a Montreal version of the Chicago Outfit: an inner circle of made guys, and influential underworld members every bit as influential in the Outfit as some of the made guys themselves.
I think that's a good analysis of how things were set up under the Rizzutos. I've also thought that they were similar to the Outfit even though Montreal was more Cosa Nostra than the Outfit ever was. The whole criminal landscape in Montreal was pretty much as you described, but the inner-core was more like a traditional Sicillian clan. I don't think that you have access to the RD forum anymore, but there is an old post there by Lee Lamothe about the structure of the Montreal Mafia. I consider that probably the best post I've ever read about Montreal, I think it's even better than anything he wrote in the Sixth Family.
Please explain this Montreal was more cosa nostra than the outfit. Do you mean more similar to nyc? Obviously most families outside of nyc were run differently than nyc in general, is this what your getting at?
I agree with phat,I love those old fucks and he's right.we all got some cosa nostra in us.I personnely love the life.I think we on the forum would be the ultimate crew! - camerono
Chris Christie wrote:It just seems that Montreal's connections extended outside of the Italian colony, they made alliances with the local criminals (who weren't connected to a Sicilian Honored Society aka the Mafia) and they became their own New-World Crew, composed of made guys and non-members forming a vast and powerful ring. This is what made the Montreal Crew/decina/Family so influential. So much so that Desjardin and Fernandez believed enough they were a part of "it" to lay claim over it. Think a Montreal version of the Chicago Outfit: an inner circle of made guys, and influential underworld members every bit as influential in the Outfit as some of the made guys themselves.
I think that's a good analysis of how things were set up under the Rizzutos. I've also thought that they were similar to the Outfit even though Montreal was more Cosa Nostra than the Outfit ever was. The whole criminal landscape in Montreal was pretty much as you described, but the inner-core was more like a traditional Sicillian clan. I don't think that you have access to the RD forum anymore, but there is an old post there by Lee Lamothe about the structure of the Montreal Mafia. I consider that probably the best post I've ever read about Montreal, I think it's even better than anything he wrote in the Sixth Family.
Please explain this Montreal was more cosa nostra than the outfit. Do you mean more similar to nyc? Obviously most families outside of nyc were run differently than nyc in general, is this what your getting at?
I'd answer that Montreal remains connected to Italy and carries on the Mafia tradition while integrating it to fit a new world model. Whereas Chicago after Capone had no ties to Italy and evolved into a localized organization connected nationally with the LCN network.
If Capone had "lost" his war against the Gennas I would be inclined to believe that the Outfit would have resembled more of a NY-style LCN group. They didn't, and we see the result: a mostly heterogeneous mix of criminals with a solid Italian core.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
Chris Christie wrote:It just seems that Montreal's connections extended outside of the Italian colony, they made alliances with the local criminals (who weren't connected to a Sicilian Honored Society aka the Mafia) and they became their own New-World Crew, composed of made guys and non-members forming a vast and powerful ring. This is what made the Montreal Crew/decina/Family so influential. So much so that Desjardin and Fernandez believed enough they were a part of "it" to lay claim over it. Think a Montreal version of the Chicago Outfit: an inner circle of made guys, and influential underworld members every bit as influential in the Outfit as some of the made guys themselves.
I think that's a good analysis of how things were set up under the Rizzutos. I've also thought that they were similar to the Outfit even though Montreal was more Cosa Nostra than the Outfit ever was. The whole criminal landscape in Montreal was pretty much as you described, but the inner-core was more like a traditional Sicillian clan. I don't think that you have access to the RD forum anymore, but there is an old post there by Lee Lamothe about the structure of the Montreal Mafia. I consider that probably the best post I've ever read about Montreal, I think it's even better than anything he wrote in the Sixth Family.
Please explain this Montreal was more cosa nostra than the outfit. Do you mean more similar to nyc? Obviously most families outside of nyc were run differently than nyc in general, is this what your getting at?
Because I believe that the Outfit had its roots in the Camorra while Montreal was more Sicillian Cosa Nostra for obvious reasons. The Outfit's structure also seemed to differ from that of the other families.
TommyGambino wrote:Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?
Because they didn't stop answering. Anybody who understands Cosa Nostra never believed this kind of story that they decided not to answer.
So they still answer today?
Doesn't seem like it, but it wouldn't suprise me either. It also needs to be said that from the members of the Sciascia period there are only a handful left. However I imagine that Stefano and Leonardo have been made in recent years.
That's another thing I don't understand , which family are making these Montreal guys ?? Bonnanos , gambinos , themselves ???
