Joseph cammarano jnr

[Wiseguy]

This same discussion is going on over on the BB.

It may only be the Daily News so far that has identified Mancuso as boss but they have said the info comes from law enforcement. It may not hold quite as much weight as, say, an indictment but I suspect the same people would also dispute that. We already see them do it by taking it upon themselves to anoint Crea the Lucchese boss despite the feds still saying Amuso is. And they do it for the same reason, ie it "doesn't make sense" to them that Mancuso is the boss (as if that matters at all) so it must be someone else.

Like I said on the other board, too many look at the real life mob like it's some kind of Mafia computer game where they can build their own family, decide who's on the throne, and so on. It's a complete disconnect from reality, which is ironic considering many of them claim being "from the area" somehow affords then special insight to the inner workings of the mob. After nearly 10 years on these forums you'd think this would stop, considering the poor track record of these Internet insiders compared to official info, but nope.

[Angelo Santino]

To be fair, it was Capeci who stated (and then retracted two years later) that Crea was boss. And each time you had the usual assclowns responding like it was "common knowledge" and that they had been saying "that" for years. It'd a circle jerk.

Like I said on the other board, too many look at the real life mob like it's some kind of Mafia computer game where they can build their own family, decide who's on the throne, and so on. It's a complete disconnect from reality, which is ironic considering many of them claim being "from the area" somehow affords then special insight to the inner workings of the mob. After nearly 10 years on these forums you'd think this would stop, considering the poor track record of these Internet insiders compared to official info, but nope.

This I agree with 100%

[Wiseguy]

To be fair, it was Capeci who stated (and then retracted two years later) that Crea was boss. And each time you had the usual assclowns responding like it was "common knowledge" and that they had been saying "that" for years. It'd a circle jerk.

That's true and I respect Capeci for being willing to retract himself upon further info. For him to do that it must have been pretty convincing. And, in one of his articles, he cited an FBI agent giving fairly recent court testimony that Amuso is still the boss.

Of course, that's where the discussion becomes whether it's in name only or not. Capeci said that, according to his sources, Peter Gotti is just a figurehead boss with no power remaining. But I haven't seen much info, aside from forum speculation, that the same applies to Amuso or Mancuso.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Hang on for a sec.

If Capeci's word is as good as we've got, and he can be wrong, and wrong big time, over a lengthy period of time, then isn't it fair call to say what is released isn't gospel?

Why do we take the Daily News and Capeci as undisputed when it's apparent it isn't set in stone?

We can't give Capeci absolutism on one hand (Mancuso) and ignore precious inaccuracies (Amuso) on the other.

The only lesson learned is that nothing is certain and hence logical speculation has base.

Neither side can have their cake and eat it too

[Wiseguy]

Hang on for a sec.

If Capeci's word is as good as we've got, and he can be wrong, and wrong big time, over a lengthy period of time, then isn't it fair call to say what is released isn't gospel?

Why do we take the Daily News and Capeci as undisputed when it's apparent it isn't set in stone?

We can't give Capeci absolutism on one hand (Mancuso) and ignore precious inaccuracies (Amuso) on the other.

The only lesson learned is that nothing is certain and hence logical speculation has base.

Neither side can have their cake and eat it too

First, Capeci has a much better track record than the board speculators. Second, he isn't the only source about Amuso. It also came straight from the feds, who are an even better source than Capeci.

Granted, people can be excused a little more for Mancuso than Amuso, considering it's only been the Daily News so far that's talked about Mancuso being boss (as far as I recall anyway.) But it's often the same people questioning both.

And why give the benefit of the doubt to the often wrong forum guessers rather than Capeci or the Daily News who is at least citing law enforcement sources?

[SonnyBlackstein]

Hang on for a sec.

If Capeci's word is as good as we've got, and he can be wrong, and wrong big time, over a lengthy period of time, then isn't it fair call to say what is released isn't gospel?

Why do we take the Daily News and Capeci as undisputed when it's apparent it isn't set in stone?

We can't give Capeci absolutism on one hand (Mancuso) and ignore precious inaccuracies (Amuso) on the other.

The only lesson learned is that nothing is certain and hence logical speculation has base.

Neither side can have their cake and eat it too

First, Capeci has a much better track record than the board speculators. Second, he isn't the only source about Amuso. It also came straight from the feds, who are an even better source than Capeci.

Granted, people can be excused a little more for Mancuso than Amuso, considering it's only been the Daily News so far that's talked about Mancuso being boss (as far as I recall anyway.) But it's often the same people questioning both.

And why give the benefit of the doubt to the often wrong forum guessers rather than Capeci or the Daily News who is at least citing law enforcement sources?

Ivy if it were simply which source to believe, all else being equal, then of course. Feds v Board speculators, Feds win hands down.

But thats not the only factor to consider.

There are very logical reasons to hold suspicion on either Amuso and/or Mancuso. And its this illogical-ness (perceived or not) which is reason that, in an area not set in stone (informants, secret society, guesswork, misinformation, wire-tickling etc etc) that justifies questioning current information when it appears unjustified.

With a lack of rats, nothing can be certain. And even then, rats can be subjective, motivated.

So if something appears contrary to common sense, without a preponderance of evidence one way or the other, questioning is perfectly acceptable.

Why is that so difficult to accept?

[TommyGambino]

You're like a broken record on this subject WiseGuy,. Everyone knows you're opinion, yet you just won't stop. At the very least you say it once a week.

[Lupara]

You're like a broken record on this subject WiseGuy,. Everyone knows you're opinion, yet you just won't stop. At the very least you say it once a week.

Because the fools won't stop either. I'm glad that Wiseguy always takes it upon himself to set the record straight by offering logical explanations, facts and evidence. He brings balance to the table and keeps the ship floating in the right direction. Without people like him these forums would be dominated by idiots.

[Pogo The Clown]

You nailed it Lupara. You figure after being wrong on Gotti-Corozzo, D'Amico-Corozzo, Tommy Gioeli, Sal Montanga, John Riggi, etc the fresh street talk and forum speculation on these matters would have been discredited but people still give it the time of day. Really has it ever been right on these matters?


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Well I've never said jack shit about Gotti-Corrozo, D'Amico-Corrozo, Tommy Gioeli, Sal Montagna, John Riggi etc.

So you're not talking to me.

And Lupara: the only fool is he who has a closed mind. Let's hope that's not you

[SonnyBlackstein]

Let's all fucking remember that this is also a board for discussion.

On contentious subjects.

Not a 'my way or the highway' agree or you're an 'idiot' attitude.
Because people can reserve the right to disagree without being called a fool or and idiot.

And a 'friendly' price of advice, you learn through humility, not arrogance.

Have a great day.

[TommyGambino]

You're like a broken record on this subject WiseGuy,. Everyone knows you're opinion, yet you just won't stop. At the very least you say it once a week.

Because the fools won't stop either. I'm glad that Wiseguy always takes it upon himself to set the record straight by offering logical explanations, facts and evidence. He brings balance to the table and keeps the ship floating in the right direction. Without people like him these forums would be dominated by idiots.

It's like he gets paid to do this shit, defend the FBI and LE. So what if people speculate on forums, it would be fucking boring otherwise. 'Keeps the ship floating in the right direction' Most people take the word of LE over people speculating on forums so I'm not sure why you're acting like Wiseguy is a minority.

[Snakes]

It's a little bit different when we are among friends on the board. But some of this information can get leaked to the "outside" and give people the wrong impression, so I can see where Wiseguy is coming from.

Also, I am not accusing anyone specifically of this but when someone says that "they heard" or "I was told" instead of just saying where they got the information from it becomes much more difficult to sift out the bullshit from potentially factual information.

The way I address it is by explicitly mentioning if something is unofficial or has not been corroborated by a reliable source, i.e. primary sources, law enforcement, or certain areas of the media which have access to law enforcement. At that point, I'm open to discussion on the matter.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

So since we're using Newspaper articles, because you know, they get all their info from law enforcement which is always 100% legit. Are we just going to neglect the older article that was earlier mentioned in which Cammarano was mentioned as being from an opposing side of Palazzolo, who the article mentioned was Mancuso's latest attempt at retaining power, who at Mancuso's design was attempting to usurp the power of Cammarano, by meeting with Queens guys? The article implies he was seeking the backing for a move against Cammarano, this article mentioned Cammarano and those around him as having power. In the Asaro trial, Mancuso wasn't even named as boss at any point, it was Tommy DiFiore, whom law enforcement were calling the boss of the Bonanno's. So there you have two conflicting sources both coming from law enforcement. Yet because the law enforcement may have told the daily news, that Mancuso okayed it, we should believe it. Despite it being a complete contradiction from earlier reports, through the same exact paper?


And nobody is answering to Vic Amuso, except for maybe Nicky Scarfo Jr.

I'll just leave this here.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

I don't know if it's Joe C to be exact, but I have mentioned the power structure being that of Long Island & Queens. Glen Cove was one of the places in particular where I mentioned there being an obvious presence of these guys. I personally don't think he'll last too long, and I think he's holding the seat for someone else, and it isn't Mancuso.

He's Brooklyn, and people have been talking about the power being in LI and Queens for the last year or two on the forums, nothing new.

He's from Brooklyn and came up with those guys, but he's currently based in Long Island, and has more than a couple of those guys around him. I still don't think anyone is taking orders from Mancuso. The article simply says, which is DailyNews by the way, which has been proven inaccurate in the past, that Mancuso was okay with the decision. He might've been, however that's a far way from saying he's the boss and he okayed it. But believe whatever you guys may like.

You mean he lives in Long Island? He took over his father's crew, which was always Brooklyn based.

When did I say anything about Mancuso okaying it? Please tell me, if anything I'd have to agree with you that Mancuso doesn't call the shots but that's just a guess.

For the record, he barely uses his fathers social club these days, he's commonly seen throughout Glen Cove, and that's all times of the day. Not disagreeing with you, but what I've seen, if he is conducting any "business", it's in Long Island, with Long Island guys around him. Therefore would it not be fair, to say he's more Long Island based, as of today?

And I didn't say YOU personally said anything about Mancuso, but that seems to be the discussion going on right now. Am I wrong?