Project Otremens Recordings

[B.]

Now we have to factor in that a "high-ranking Bonanno" member was introducing Caruana-Cuntreras as amici nostri and the Buffalo faction in Ontario had to decide whether or not to recognize them. Was that a Montreal Bonanno leader or an NYC-based one? Was it someone from the Sicilian faction? That's one of the most interesting new details for me in addition to Gambino-linked Los Angeles members being made in Ontario.

Thinking that could've been John Zancocchio. We know he was the one who "informed" Buffalo about Morena's induction in 2015, then he was serving as consigliere (or at least "the position" rather than "the title" of consigliere per Lovaglio) by the time the talk of recognising the Cunteras comes up in late 2016.

That'd be pretty wild but the admin at the time had Sicilian ties.

- The"Joe" who arranged/approved contact with Ciccio Domingo could have been Cammarano since Bosco wasn't part of the admin anymore and possibly shelved. Those arrangements are supposed to be made boss to boss (or their proxies) and Cammarano / Zancocchio were the admin by then.

- Plus a former Grimaldi associate confirmed to me that Vito Grimaldi kept ties to the Sicilian mafia and his relatives in Venezuela. One of the Families in Venezuela was formed by men from Grimaldi's origins in Santa Ninfa and the other was dominated by the Caruana-Cuntreras so there could be a relationship there. The Grimaldis were a key part of the Cammarano/Zancocchio admin as we know.

- From the list of who voted Cammarano in as boss, it looks like other Sicilian faction members supported him.

Not saying any of this directly involved the "high-ranking Bonanno" who was introducing Caruana-Cuntreras to Buffalo but the network definitely existed within the Bonanno admin at this time to do it. The alternative is that it was a Montreal-based "high-ranking Bonanno" which would equally blow our minds.

[chin_gigante]

Somebody's gotta track down Morena and get him on a podcast

[B.]

Something to remember is that every formal introduction requires a previous formal introduction. If a Bonanno member introduced Caruana-Cuntreras to a Buffalo member, it's because someone else introduced the Bonanno to the Caruana-Cuntreras first.

Same thing with the interactions between Violi and the visiting Bonannos. They didn't just go to Hamilton and tell him they were going to induct Morena, someone had to formally introduce them to Violi which is especially interesting because he was a new member so the window of time is small when that happened. Todaro was obviously contacted too in some way and gave his approval.

It's Buddhist "dependent origination" done mafia-style haha. None of these formal interactions are a one-off or exist in a vacuum, they all require a previous formal interaction.

[CabriniGreen]

We don't actually know when/how the Bonannos first established themselves in Montreal. Galante did organize a decina / inducted members with Joe Bonanno's approval, but there were colonies from the familiar Western Agrigento villages in Montreal with mafia ties and interesting visitors dating back to the early 20th century. The Cattolicensi were with/around the Bonanno Family in NYC dating back to the 1920s/30s so a Bonanno relationship with those towns didn't first begin when the Rizzuto-Renda clan settled permanently in Canada later on.

You also have Joe Bonanno's mafioso first cousin Giuseppe Silinonte (an ex-Williamsburg murderer/bootlegger in Endicott at the time) spending a month in Montreal in 1931 right after Maranzano's murder and Maranzano allegedly sent his Family there for protection during the Castellammarese War. There's likely much more to it than we know but unfortunately we lack sources who can clarify exactly what was there and how it connected to the Bonanno Family in a formal sense pre-Galante. Remote crews aren't created randomly and usually utilize existing relationships.

Personally I don't believe it was just Galante attempting to strongarm local rackets even though that was part of what he did. Joe and Bill Bonanno were themselves taking a great personal interest in Montreal but refused to shed much light on it in their memoirs.

I quite agree, the Bonanno Crime Family indeed had interests or connections in Montreal well before the 1950s.

But if I may (and sorry if I stray from the initial topic), I would like to bring a point which is only very rarely addressed by American researchers, but which nevertheless makes consensus among Canadian researchers:

Joe Bonanno sent Galante to Montreal to take him to safety following pressure from law enforcement, that's a fact. But that only explains why he sent Galante.

The main reason why Bonanno sent someone to organize a decina is that he wanted to go all out in heroin trafficking and that local gangsters controlled the port of Montreal which was one of the main entry points to the USA, much less guarded than that of NY. And at the time the heroin came from France.

The Cotronis and their men spoke French unlike the Americans, so they needed them to communicate with the French traffickers, who themselves did not speak a word of English. Especially since just like the Bonannos, the French gangsters also have a long criminal history with local gangsters, and a good number of traffickers settled in Montreal during the 1940s and 1950s such as François Spirito, Joseph Orsini, Antoine D'Agostino and a little later Paul Mondoloni or Jean-Baptiste Croce. As far as I know, Montreal was already a refuge for French mobsters on the run during the 20s/30s and probably before that.

I know I often repeat the same things on this subject, and I'm probably breaking your balls with it guys, but look no further why the Bonanno Crime Family set up shop in Montreal, the reason is there. I insist on that because like I said, it's very underestimated, even ignored, and yet all the evidences are here

-------------------

Moral: there is no such thing as a mafia expert. We're all just dudes hanging around until the next member source shows up.

Oh man, you said it all, I couldn't agree more. And even if I'm not too much interested by the Vito Rizzuto years (yeah, I find his father much more interesting), and the turmoil after 2004. It's always fascinating to see all the connections and events happening in Canada.

Geez, we are even wondering if there is not a return of mafia activity in Los Angeles. If that's not proof that the mafia in Canada is full of surprises, I don't know what it is !

Thst makes more sense... I never REALLY bought into the bookie explanation....

[antimafia]

Somebody's gotta track down Morena and get him on a podcast

The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) and Letter of Agreement (LOA) that the RCMP had Morena sign likely precludes his being able to tell all — or even just a little bit — in a book, newspaper article, televised interview, or podcast. Had he been an RCMP-CFSEU CI, 1. he would not have been called to testify, and 2. the RCMP would prioritize protecting his identity at all costs. But as a paid police agent in witness protection who was classified as a cooperating witness (CW), he would have had to prepare to testify as Vincenzo Morena here in Canada had the defendants chosen to gone to trial.

Police agent Carmine Guido, the ’ndrangheta affiliate who was paid CAD $2.4 million to testify against Siderno Group member Giuseppe Ursino of Bradford, Ontario several years ago, testified under his real name at the 361 University Ave. courthouse in downtown Toronto.

While I understand that Jerry Capeci had the legal right to identify Morena in his Gang Land column because he was not bound by the same restrictions faced by Canadian journalists who could only refer to Morena in their articles as CW-1, I am troubled that the FBI could not do more to protect Morena’s identity in the US up until the point he would actually be called to testify in trials in both countries, said trials never having actually transpired. His life could hang in the balance; as has Domenico Violi’s because Morena was known by individuals in their world. Some posters will recall my criticisms of the RCMP in investigations like Project OTremens — in other countries, Morena’s actions as a police agent would probably be deemed by a judge and/ or jury as entrapment.

Now if Morena chafes because, for example, he finds that the legal documents he signed are preventing him from being paid handsomely for discussing his experience as an agent provocateur, he’ll lose the right — should he want to earn income in the aforesaid manner — to witness protection. And the RCMP might want some of its money back or, if his compensation payments were being spread out, withhold the remaining monies he was owed.

[CabriniGreen]

Was it tribute or was Vito Rizzuto an investor?

With this subject it's very easy to confuse return on investment for tribute which can appear the same from the outside. I define tribute as receiving money out of respect/status/rank without providing capital or resources of some kind.

What makes it murkier is that often people are secret investors though with an illegal operation that distinction doesn't matter.

The sportsbooks to me are by far the most mysterious development up there.

It's the main thing I find implausible in the Scoppa book. Vito owing Bertolo ( Or was it Gervasi? I confuse the 2 ....) money on a sportsbook.

I can't reconcile Vito being the point man for a massive gambling expansion in Ontario, and owing money to the local Montreal book. I also don't understand why or how the sportsbook for the Montreal organization became consolidated into one ledger. And how are there NO American-Bonnano shareholders? Like there's Bikers in there but no New Yorkers? It's like... what happened?

If New York members weren't investors in the sportsbook they wouldn't be shareholders. The only consistent tribute the Bonannos asked for Family-wide was Christmas, boss's birthday, and then the warchest, with the local joker poker profits intended to go into the latter.

From the excerpt Antimafia posted, it specifically says Rizzuto "invested" in Ontario which more or less answered my original question. There's a massive difference between someone "paying tribute" versus giving someone a return on their investment. If we don't know the arrangement from the outside it can look like "tribute" but if you look into the actual arrangements that's often an inaccurate term and that's true for NYC as well. Tribute does exist but outsiders tend to frame every transaction that way.

I don't know anything about Rizzuto and the sportsbook but what's inconsistent about him owing someone money? He was a very powerful and influential figure but he's a member and he can receive money from one operation while owing money on another.

You missing the larger point. In NY, you have decentralized sportsbook operations, and historically, a few centralized narcotics operations. In Canada, you apparently have a centralized sportsbook, and a proliferation of narcotics ops.

I'm wondering why it developed that way....

[CabriniGreen]

We don't actually know when/how the Bonannos first established themselves in Montreal. Galante did organize a decina / inducted members with Joe Bonanno's approval, but there were colonies from the familiar Western Agrigento villages in Montreal with mafia ties and interesting visitors dating back to the early 20th century. The Cattolicensi were with/around the Bonanno Family in NYC dating back to the 1920s/30s so a Bonanno relationship with those towns didn't first begin when the Rizzuto-Renda clan settled permanently in Canada later on.

This stuff right here is where I need a little clarification. Because it sounds just like " Torretesi" to me.
When you say Cattolicensi, is this just people from Cattolica Eraclea who immigrated? Or members of the Cattolica Eraclea FAMILY in Sicily, who went to NY?. Keep in mind the pm I sent you as far as my mindset on mafiosi in different territories.

[antimafia]

Was it tribute or was Vito Rizzuto an investor?

With this subject it's very easy to confuse return on investment for tribute which can appear the same from the outside. I define tribute as receiving money out of respect/status/rank without providing capital or resources of some kind.

What makes it murkier is that often people are secret investors though with an illegal operation that distinction doesn't matter.

The sportsbooks to me are by far the most mysterious development up there.

It's the main thing I find implausible in the Scoppa book. Vito owing Bertolo ( Or was it Gervasi? I confuse the 2 ....) money on a sportsbook.

I can't reconcile Vito being the point man for a massive gambling expansion in Ontario, and owing money to the local Montreal book. I also don't understand why or how the sportsbook for the Montreal organization became consolidated into one ledger. And how are there NO American-Bonnano shareholders? Like there's Bikers in there but no New Yorkers? It's like... what happened?

If New York members weren't investors in the sportsbook they wouldn't be shareholders. The only consistent tribute the Bonannos asked for Family-wide was Christmas, boss's birthday, and then the warchest, with the local joker poker profits intended to go into the latter.

From the excerpt Antimafia posted, it specifically says Rizzuto "invested" in Ontario which more or less answered my original question. There's a massive difference between someone "paying tribute" versus giving someone a return on their investment. If we don't know the arrangement from the outside it can look like "tribute" but if you look into the actual arrangements that's often an inaccurate term and that's true for NYC as well. Tribute does exist but outsiders tend to frame every transaction that way.

I don't know anything about Rizzuto and the sportsbook but what's inconsistent about him owing someone money? He was a very powerful and influential figure but he's a member and he can receive money from one operation while owing money on another.

Papalia was murdered at the end of May 1997. I’m not in the least surprised that Project Scopa revealed he was paying actual tribute to Rizzuto and that the unmade Pat and Angelo Musitano circumvented Papalia and paid tribute directly to Rizzuto prior to Papalia’s murder.

My opinion is based upon the following, with points 2, 3, and 4 being arguments for gambling partnerships in a post-Papalia world:

1. the actual investments in physical properties that Vito Rizzuto and the Caruana-Cuntrera group made in Ontario from 1995 onward — at least a couple of these investments were mediated by Panepinto

2. the revelation that there were about 15 men who Rizzuto met with in October 22 and 23, 1997, not just Musitano and Panepinto (we have Paul Manning to thank for disclosing Project Scopa documents)

3. the sophisticated-at-the-time video-gambling ring headed by Rizzuto that operated in Montreal, Toronto/GTA, Hamilton, and Ottawa between 1998 and at least 2002 by using satellite signals he arranged to come via Toronto, New York, and Israel (the ring seemed to continue to operate in 2003 — Pino Avignone faced a gaming-house charge for operating VLTs from Monello’s Sports Bar on Barton St. E.; he mentioned to an undercover cop in the sports club that permission would be needed from Cosimo Commisso to install VLTs in Ottawa; incidentally, Avignone was acquitted in 2004)

4. the January 2001 meeting that Rizzuto called at a Toronto restaurant, where the guests included members of the ’ndrangheta, the Gambino Family, the Buffalo Family, and local Sicilian guys.

Is there a reason we posters have a hard time believing, after our initial shock, that Rizzuto and Papalia had this tribute arrangement?

[CabriniGreen]

Was it tribute or was Vito Rizzuto an investor?

With this subject it's very easy to confuse return on investment for tribute which can appear the same from the outside. I define tribute as receiving money out of respect/status/rank without providing capital or resources of some kind.

What makes it murkier is that often people are secret investors though with an illegal operation that distinction doesn't matter.

The sportsbooks to me are by far the most mysterious development up there.

It's the main thing I find implausible in the Scoppa book. Vito owing Bertolo ( Or was it Gervasi? I confuse the 2 ....) money on a sportsbook.

I can't reconcile Vito being the point man for a massive gambling expansion in Ontario, and owing money to the local Montreal book. I also don't understand why or how the sportsbook for the Montreal organization became consolidated into one ledger. And how are there NO American-Bonnano shareholders? Like there's Bikers in there but no New Yorkers? It's like... what happened?

If New York members weren't investors in the sportsbook they wouldn't be shareholders. The only consistent tribute the Bonannos asked for Family-wide was Christmas, boss's birthday, and then the warchest, with the local joker poker profits intended to go into the latter.

From the excerpt Antimafia posted, it specifically says Rizzuto "invested" in Ontario which more or less answered my original question. There's a massive difference between someone "paying tribute" versus giving someone a return on their investment. If we don't know the arrangement from the outside it can look like "tribute" but if you look into the actual arrangements that's often an inaccurate term and that's true for NYC as well. Tribute does exist but outsiders tend to frame every transaction that way.

I don't know anything about Rizzuto and the sportsbook but what's inconsistent about him owing someone money? He was a very powerful and influential figure but he's a member and he can receive money from one operation while owing money on another.

Papalia was murdered at the end of May 1997. I’m not in the least surprised that Project Scopa revealed he was paying actual tribute to Rizzuto and that the unmade Pat and Angelo Musitano circumvented Papalia and paid tribute directly to Rizzuto prior to Papalia’s murder.

My opinion is based upon the following, with points 2, 3, and 4 being arguments for gambling partnerships in a post-Papalia world:

1. the actual investments in physical properties that Vito Rizzuto and the Caruana-Cuntrera group made in Ontario from 1995 onward — at least a couple of these investments were mediated by Panepinto

2. the revelation that there were about 15 men who Rizzuto met with in October 22 and 23, 1997, not just Musitano and Panepinto (we have Paul Manning to thank for disclosing Project Scopa documents)

3. the sophisticated-at-the-time video-gambling ring headed by Rizzuto that operated in Montreal, Toronto/GTA, Hamilton, and Ottawa between 1998 and at least 2002 by using satellite signals he arranged to come via Toronto, New York, and Israel (the ring seemed to continue to operate in 2003 — Pino Avignone faced a gaming-house charge for operating VLTs from Monello’s Sports Bar on Barton St. E.; he mentioned to an undercover cop in the sports club that permission would be needed from Cosimo Commisso to install VLTs in Ottawa; incidentally, Avignone was acquitted in 2004)

4. the January 2001 meeting that Rizzuto called at a Toronto restaurant, where the guests included members of the ’ndrangheta, the Gambino Family, the Buffalo Family, and local Sicilian guys.

Is there a reason we posters have a hard time believing, after our initial shock, that Rizzuto and Papalia had this tribute arrangement?

My question was more on the structure of the gambling ops up there, why it was centralized.

This post did a pretty good job of showing how Vito organized it all with shareholders.

The Bonnanos and no tribute thing kinda baffles me.
Like, fuck tribute, when Tomasulos dad died, didn't Vitale take the whole thing?

Montagna get to Canada, the FIRST thing he starts doing it seems is demanding tribute...I dunno....

[CabriniGreen]

If New York members weren't investors in the sportsbook they wouldn't be shareholders.

WERE they investors? If not, why? I mean you don't have to answer, but it IS a good question....look at Antis list...was everyone there EXCEPT the New Yorkers? Montagna didn't seem like he was demanding something preexisting, like the " Bonnano share" , of the profits. Did the "family" have points in?

Buffalo is weird. They had a 14 million a year gambling op in their jurisdiction, and they just let it get.....what? Usurped? Did they even beef about it? And WHY was Papalia hit exactly? He was an asshole? To whom? It reminds me of the Piccolo explanation. Why was he hit? "He was an asshole".... OK. Was Papalia an asshole to other mafiosi to HIS families benefit? If so, thats being a good soldier.

Buffalo signed off on his murder, just to relinquish the territory to a rival group? Or did Rizzuto indeed, pay Buffalo?

Why was it in Buffalos interest to allow the Musitanos to ( im borrowing terminology here) to "service" their operation? Or let the Gambinos ( I cant see it as the L.A. fam) recruit from their pool of talent? It's weird you have Cece Luppino turning down a button saying there's not enough opportunities for money, and that his dad struggles for 30 years, and they let these apparently unmade kids take their cash cow? I think k Joe Violi was telling the truth, these NY families were a little aloof it seems. To the point some of the Canadians
might have seen them as lethargic. Similar to a government thst just won't invest in certain areas.

I swear, between Buffalo's gambling and the Bonnanos drugs, these 2 families got together at Morenas ceremony and ask themselves why they let these guys run roughshod all over the country.

[Wiseguy]

It's been a while since I read the English translation of what Scoppa said but the idea of a single centralized sportsbook stood out to me as very strange because he framed it in terms of the "Montreal book," the "Toronto book," etc. Though it seems more plausible when you remember that the Montreal metro area is roughly the size of Boston. Relatively speaking, not that big.

[stubbs]

Cabrini brings up some good points, why were the Musitanos kicking up to Rizzuto and not Buffalo? Unless it was both, like a joint family operation?

Also thought it was interesting that as early as the late nineties that Sergi says the Musitanos essentially disregarded Buffalo and got close to Toronto and Montreal instead.

If the Musitanos were made by Rizzuto after the Papalia hit, maybe they were Bonanno members? Unless they were made by Buffalo and Rizzuto as a Bonanno member was present at the ceremony.

[stubbs]

It's been a while since I read the English translation of what Scoppa said but the idea of a single centralized sportsbook stood out to me as very strange because he framed it in terms of the "Montreal book," the "Toronto book," etc. Though it seems more plausible when you remember that the Montreal metro area is roughly the size of Boston. Relatively speaking, not that big.

Montreal metro is 4.6 million people, so maybe not that big compared to New York, but it’s the second largest city in Canada.

Or, are you saying Montreal isn’t big enough to be divided into multiple sportsbooks?

[Wiseguy]

It's been a while since I read the English translation of what Scoppa said but the idea of a single centralized sportsbook stood out to me as very strange because he framed it in terms of the "Montreal book," the "Toronto book," etc. Though it seems more plausible when you remember that the Montreal metro area is roughly the size of Boston. Relatively speaking, not that big.

Montreal metro is 4.6 million people, so maybe not that big compared to New York, but it’s the second largest city in Canada.

Or, are you saying Montreal isn’t big enough to be divided into multiple sportsbooks?

We've obviously seen more than one sportsbook in U.S. cities smaller than Montreal, so Montreal is certainly big enough.

[antimafia]

The Inside the Montreal Mafia book quotes Andrew Scoppa as saying that Paolo Gervasi originally owned the Book; that Vito Rizzuto borrowed $2 million in cash from Gervasi during the time Vito’s father was in Venezuela (which I assume is the time from Nick Sr.’s imprisonment there from 1988 to 1993, not when Nick Sr. had temporarily transferred from the Bonanno Family to the Siculiana / Venezuela cosca in the 1970s; there’s good reason to believe that Vito Rizzuto, Paolo Renda, and Giuseppe Lo Presti were first inducted into this cosca before transferring to the Bonanno Family, but I digress).

Scoppa is also quoted in the book as saying the following about the Book: “How much is it worth? Between $15 and $20 million a year. Or $25 million, even.”

The Book is the physical repository of illicit loans and illegal sports betting, as well as pertinent details about bettors’ personal financials in order to collect the debts and to see how much more money could ultimately be squeezed from the bettors. It is what Raynald Desjardins kept reminding Sal Montagna to literally get his hands on — these two had to ensure no one knew they were working in concert.

The Platinum Sports Book represents Internet gambling, which Vito Rizzuto controlled in Canada. He sat atop it, just as you see him in the Project Scopa chart that displays the Papalia and Musitano groups targeted during the investigation; affiliates are also also seen in the chart.

Platinum had many actors and groups involved. Some sports books associated with it were akin to franchisees using the Platinum offshore server. Then you had other books arranging deals to set up websites like Bet Who, for which Platinum would charge a user fee that represented something else: an agreement not to rob clients.

One of the connected groups was MPH: “M” for Miller; “P” for Peretz; and “H” for Hare. I can’t and won’t elaborate more about Project ORiver (poker reference), which investigated Platinum and then gave rise to Project Sindacato. Some offshore gambling overseen by a key Hells in Ontario was tied to the owner of Dolphin Automobile Platinum Sport.

We already know that the Figliomenis were involved in Platinum from the start, whose setup I date to 2003. Peter Scarcella and a brother of his were also involved in Platinum. So was former Hells Paris Christoforou, who was close to Peretz — you’ll recall that Christoforou punched out fellow inmate Peter Scarcella when the two saw themselves go to prison in relation to the 2004 California Sandwiches shooting fiasco; that Christoforou and Scarcella survived a murder attempt in the west end of Toronto a number of years after they got out.

In 2001, at the time of the biggest arrests in the Rizzuto-led video-gambling ring that operated in Montreal, Toronto/GTA, Hamilton and Ottawa, the police investigators stated that the Rizzutos took in approximately $200 million in bets in Ontario and Quebec. The reporting of the bust is how almost all of us, me included, first encountered the names of arrestees whose names would later mean more to us: Bonanno Family member Giuseppe Renda (nephew of Gerlando Sciascia), Stefano Sollecito (one of Rocco’s sons), and twins Martino and Antonio Caputo.