Early members of non-NYC families

[B.]

Thanks to research from a number of people, including some of our fellow Black Handers, we know a decent number of NYC area members who were active before the 1920s and even before the 20th century in some cases.

Some of this spills out into other parts of the US and people like Nicola Gentile have given us names and starting points for other parts of the US.

Kind of like the list of murdered members topic, I'm looking to plant the idea here and anyone who wants to throw out names can feel free. Just list the city and whoever you believe may have been active in the "early days"... I don't want to list a specific range of years because it will vary based on the city and what info is available. I also understand we can't confirm that certain people were members or even if they were confirmed members, when they were made. I trust your judgment either way and this can be a discussion not just a list...

If you do know the years they were first active it would be great to include that with their name. Maybe include the city in Sicily/Italy they came from as well if you know it.

[Ivan]

People like Mike Merlo and Anthony D'Andrea, made members of the Chicago Mafia (as opposed to the Chicago Outfit), were probably active in Chicago well before 1920.

[FriendofHenry]

People like Mike Merlo and Anthony D'Andrea, made members of the Chicago Mafia (as opposed to the Chicago Outfit), were probably active in Chicago well before 1920.

I believe that the original Pittsburgh crew went back to the 1920's. JCB would be best to give the correct date.
I know that Charlie Imburgia was sent to Warren, Ohio in 1929 and bought into the Sunrise Inn.

[Angelo Santino]

If I may inteject: it's hard to confirm who was a member and who wasn't in that time period. Outside of the bosses and a few select members we can surmise was made and can only guess at their rank. Confusion was random in the 60's and it was then. What we best have is guilt by association and that can be very misleading when trying to guess at membership, what is can do is dust off the tracks that the train ran on. For instance, the Bonannos, circa 1890- Williamsburgh; circa 1910 Williamsburgh and East Village and so on. We have a list of names of people who were related to members, lived in the area, arrested etc. We've been able to place them as active participants of the network. But to surmise that they were formally made is strictly guesswork, which at the end of the day isn't very accurate.

Nick Gentile was more than likely accurate in who he identified as members, but certain things he confirmed were largely ambiguous. If you went by him alone and never read Bonanno or Valachi, you'd never have it officially confirmed that Maranzano took over Schiro's family. Things like that.

When it comes to alternative research, take the Ribera family of Elizabeth, we can start looking into demographics (no one suspects the Genoans of importing the mafia), what we cand o is look at when people from Ribera began immigrating. We can compare that to those with records and see their affiliations (if any) to members of the 1960's who were identified when the FBI got serious and surmise that certain people were part of "the mafia." What part is an issue: were they associates, members, leaders? Look at it from a different perspective, we can guess when the potential was there for a family to form. That's as close as we can bring things.

[Ivan]

If I may inteject: it's hard to confirm who was a member and who wasn't in that time period. Outside of the bosses and a few select members we can surmise was made and can only guess at their rank.

Yeah... That's why I only mentioned D'Andrea and Merlo - they were bosses, so their status as "made" is probably a safe assumption.

[Angelo Santino]

If I may inteject: it's hard to confirm who was a member and who wasn't in that time period. Outside of the bosses and a few select members we can surmise was made and can only guess at their rank.

Yeah... That's why I only mentioned D'Andrea and Merlo - they were bosses, so their status as "made" is probably a safe assumption.

My post wasn't directed towards you, just in general.. Who you cited was correct.

[Ivan]

My post wasn't directed towards you, just in general.

I know, I was just agreeing with you, and pointing out that I limited myself to only mentioning those two worthies for the precise reason you gave.

[B.]

All very good points, Christie.

I think I'm looking for a couple things here:

1) To ID who the earliest known members are in each non-NYC family, even if that means starting in the 1940s or 1950s.... or hell the 1970s if that's all we've got. Kind of like discussions we've had about the Philly family, where we have a list of the first dozen or so members from the 1920s, but little to nothing about who the members were before that.

2) To speculate who some early members might have been based on reasonable evidence, even if it can't be confirmed. This is more what you were commenting on.

I should have probably started with a list of my own.

Here are the earliest "known" Philly members based on Sam Scafidi's info, circa 1920:
Gaetano Scafidi
Joseph Scafidi
Dominick Festa
Francesco Barrale
Marco Reginelli
Antonio Pollina
Michael Maggio
John Scopelliti
Mario Riccobene
Salvatore Testa
Salvatore Sabella

Despite all my research into Philly, I don't feel confident in who some of the earlier members might have been except for Nicola Gentile's brief time there after getting made. There is little reason to think that any of these guys had fathers who were members in the Philadelphia area (though it's likely that some, like the Scafidis, Riccobene, and Sabella, had fathers and relatives who were members in Sicily).

On the other hand, if you look at the DeCavalcantes, it seems like Giovanni Riggi (John's grandfather), Alfonso LaRasso (Louis' father), Calogero Majuri (Frank's father) and other relatives of well-known guys are possible members but it's pure guesswork based on the way that family has historically recruited its members.

[Angelo Santino]

I remember years ago Allan May argued that Frank Costello never went through the making ceremony because he never read a book saying that or could envision Costello undergoing such a thing.

According to one informant, in 1920 Masseria wasn't a member, in 1921 it was confirmed that he was brought in. That's the same time-frame Gentile first cites his becoming boss, and it fits with the time frame. But one could argue that Masseria went from associate to boss based on that one informant. Additionally, Luciano was rumored to have been made in 1919.

We all kinda have this image, myself included, that the norm is traditionally the most veteran hold the highest positions. That's not true. Same goes for people of recognition vs actual made members. You know this, so does Ivan, I'm not trying to sound anal retentive or pompous. I guess I'm just sharing my mindset on what/who/how I myself label things. I tend to be very cautious because I don't want to be known as "jumping the gun" on what I can prove via sources.

I've also tried to create a list and just gave up eventually, outside of a handful of names, everything else is guesswork. I could create hierarchies for the NY families under each boss with hierarchies of potential captains and soldiers 1900-1923ihs). But it wouldn't be accurate or verifiable. The info is just not there. Law enforcement didn't ask the right questions, the scope of criminal investigation wasn't evolved to the idea of organizational crime. The 1890's "organized crime" was debated by scholars to be a criminal act planned out prior to the actual act. It was that archaic.

[Ivan]

We all kinda have this image, myself included, that the norm is traditionally the most veteran hold the highest positions. That's not true.

Experience doesn't seem to be a huge factor in determining rank. It seems to be more a matter of either the more forceful personalities assuming those positions because they can, or of people being appointed by someone even higher ranking who just likes them for whatever reason, often irrespective of their experience in either scenario. Or often the more veteran members drift upward into capo positions because of their experience, but the highest positions are just as likely to go to those who outright grab them.

I did think that Allan May thing about Costello never going through the ceremony because it "didn't fit his personality" or whatever was kind of a weird theory on May's part when I read it years ago.

[B.]

I don't mind someone, especially someone who otherwise "knows their shit", throwing out an oddball theory here or there just to make people think.

The Costello one is ridiculous in my opinion, but sometimes left field ideas like that can lead to new findings or help people better understand why they believe what they do.

Also thanks for sharing that about Masseria. Didn't realize he may have risen that fast. I know people love to point out Ralph "Joe the Boss" Natale going from associate to boss like it was some kind of travesty, but like you said, the norm isn't necessarily for veterans to get the big promotions and there are plenty of examples of guys rising very quickly.

[Angelo Santino]

I don't mind someone, especially someone who otherwise "knows their shit", throwing out an oddball theory here or there just to make people think.

The Costello one is ridiculous in my opinion, but sometimes left field ideas like that can lead to new findings or help people better understand why they believe what they do.

Also thanks for sharing that about Masseria. Didn't realize he may have risen that fast. I know people love to point out Ralph "Joe the Boss" Natale going from associate to boss like it was some kind of travesty, but like you said, the norm isn't necessarily for veterans to get the big promotions and there are plenty of examples of guys rising very quickly.

That came from one informant who we've been unable to verify. Opinions are like assholes, true then and true now. Some of his things we cannot verify. But just didn't we can't doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I think once I rediscover those references i'll email them to you and you can form your own opinion. If you see something different I'm all ears.

Masseria, like Luciano, grew up on the Lower East Side where the Gambino, Genovese and Bonanno families were rubbing elbows. This was a mafia metropolis as opposed to Gen dominant Harlem, Gambino Red Hook and Bonanno Williamsburgh. By the 1920's these guys could have gone with any which one. Masseria was affiliated with Bonanno members in his early career, connected indirectly to 1909-1912 Boss DiGaetano. Luciano was close to Gambino members like Joe Biondo and I believe even once shared a room.

The Genovese Family was a renegade family built on the foundations of New World Italian combines and old world Morello capo dei capi contacts. It was at first "boycotted" cast out from the Fratellanza to by 1924 "everyone is coming together" which implies that the Masseria-Morello-Pollacia-Yale combine HAD TO BE recognized as part of the element. That came through force and criminal ingenuity in that they brought in a close perhaps previously overlooked membership potential of New World Italian criminals outside of the traditional Sicilian Mafia recruitment of the day, 1920's. That can be largely attributed to Joe Masseria. Everything Luciano gets credit for Joe earned his nickname as "The Boss" for accomplishing all that 10 years prior, at a time when the Palermitan' Family and their politics were dominant. Masseria needs a serious re-evaluation. "Old school mustache" he was anything but!

[Pogo The Clown]

Don Battista Balsamo - The first Godfather


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

Don Battista Balsamo - The first Godfather


Pogo

[Ivan]

Don Battista Balsamo - The first Godfather

All right this cracked me up. Pogo wins the internet today.