Massino/ Basciano recorded conversations (notes)

[JakeTheSnake630]

Hey Chin any update on the documents being uploaded to the files section?

[chin_gigante]

Hey Chin any update on the documents being uploaded to the files section?

Working on it. It'll be the next couple of days

[JakeTheSnake630]

Hey Chin any update on the documents being uploaded to the files section?

Working on it. It'll be the next couple of days

Awesome man appreciate it!

[chin_gigante]

7 January 2005

Basciano as acting boss

- Massino pulls Basciano up for playing with him

VB: I am always honest with you Bo, can I just say one thing?

JM: Go ahead.

VB: I might not tell you everything, everything that I’ve ever told you…

JM: But, uh.

VB: … is the truth.

- Basciano justifies how he ran the family

VB: My objective over here was for Joe Massino, not for Vinny Basciano. I put everybody together as a tough guy and told everybody that this is you, it’s not me. I made certain decisions over there to avoid all the bullshit of comin’ back and forth in the can and I hadda make them in street. I told everybody, these decisions that I’m making aren’t set in stone. If Joe wants to change ‘em, he changes them. I’m doin’ this right now for the good of this borgat’. Everybody agreed. Michael Nose says Vinny, you know somethin’? I’m proud of ya. He says you fell into the position, he says, all… […] He says all the moves that you made were right, I’m very happy. Michael complimented me. Before I came in here Michael says, Vinny, if anything happens to you I’ll stay close to Dominick. I got the same accolades with Louie Electric, Anthony Rabito, Nicky, everybody. We were strong.

- Basciano wanted to strip search James Tartaglione but Joseph Cammarano and Anthony Urso wouldn’t let him
- Massino got word that some people resented that Basciano made the captains strip
- Massino, Basciano, and Cammarano agreed that they didn’t like it but times are changing
- Basciano points out he was drawing from a limited pool when he was filling positions on the street
- Massino claims he was working with nothing when he put the family back together

JM: When I first went to jail, I had nobody. Think about it, when I went in in ’87, I had nobody. We just made Sal, we just made all the Louies, we just straightened guys out. We had nobody, we didn’t make nobody for six years.

VB: Well, I’m gonna tell you this.

JM: We didn’t make nobody from ’76 to ’84.

- Basciano was more active than administration members in other families who are on parole

VB: You know why I took advantage of? All these guys wanted to stay home. I came out! I came out, I says listen to me, there’s one way to lead this thing.

JM: Didn’t I do the same thing?

VB: I said I was born to this life.

JM: Didn’t I do the same thing?

VB: I’m a hoodlum, I’m a tough guy, I ain’t sittin’ on my fuckin’ couch, whatever happens, happens. Let’s go.

- Basciano states he and Massino would have “takin’ over the world” if they were out on the street together for two years
- Vic Juliano sent Basciano a message that Massino put him in as acting boss and the commission approved it

JM: There ain’t no commission.

VB: Well, that’s what he told me.

JM: No.

VB: That’s what…

JM: No.

VB: … that’s what he told me.

JM: There, no, you know that, there’s no commission.

VB: Yeah, I know, but that’s what he told me.

JM: There’s no commission.

VB: He says and the commission approved you.

JM: There’s no commission.

VB: This is what Vic Juliano told me.

JM: There hasn’t been a commission…

VB: I know that, but how…

JM: … since…

VB: … but listen…

JM: … since Paul got killed.

- After he got that message, Basciano started being introduced as the acting boss

JM: We was okay until I got pinched.

VB: Yeah, no.

JM: We was on top of the world.

VB: We were terrific, terrific, and we’re gettin’, we got news for you, those subsequent months over there? We fell apart. We fell apart, and I took the bull by the horns, Bo.

- Massino feels no matter how much he did for the family he can’t please everyone

VB: Now they’re pissed off, who’s fault is that? I said how many guys did this guy [Massino] save? How many guys did this guy save?

JM: That, that don’t mean nothin’. Did you ever hear the story? […] Did you ever hear the story about the guy who built a hundred bridges?

VB: That’s right, Bo. You’re right.

JM: Suck one cock, look at that dirty cocksucker.

VB: Cocksucker, a hundred percent, Bo.

- It’s difficult to tell a guy he isn’t cut out to be a captain when he’s a good guy and loyal
- The other families took advantage when Massino got arrested and thought they’d get away with it with Basciano


Randolph Pinzolo and Greg Andres

- Massino believes he will be indicted again for murder conspiracy and that it must be related to Pinzolo or the solicitation to hit Greg Andres
- Alfred Altadonna told Massino’s daughter that he heard indictments were coming down by the end of the month
- Massino mentions that the government moved Louis Attanasio into the MDC and posits there must be a superseding indictment coming
- Massino asks who knows about the Pinzolo murder
- Basciano tells him nobody who was involved could think that Massino was involved in it
- Basciano insists that Dominick Cicale is “a standup kid” and he trusts him “two thousand percent”
- Basciano believes Cicale is holding up Giuseppe Gambina’s induction because he dogged the Pinzolo hit, but he isn’t sure
- When asked who Cicale got to kill Pinzolo, Basciano guesses that it was probably Anthony Aiello
- Massino asks if anyone else knows about the solicitation to hit Greg Andres
- Basciano insists only he and Massino know about it
- Massino later asks again if Basciano mentioned anything about wanting to hit Andres to anyone else, including Cicale
- Basciano strongly denies telling anyone


Michael Mancuso

- Michael Mancuso isn’t moving on Basciano’s orders until he hears from Massino
- Since their last conversation, Basciano has sent word to the street that Massino approved his decisions

VB: But I already told them it’s comin’ from you. I sent word yesterday.

JM: But I guess they don’t believe you.

- Basciano tries to argue that he bumped Mancuso to the administration with Massino’s consent
- Massino denies this as he was only informed of the promotion after the fact
- Basciano thinks problems started on the street because Mancuso moved too fast after he (Basciano) got pinched
- Mancuso immediately went to Cicale wanting to know what Basciano had on the street
- Cicale “caught a delusion” and had an argument with Mancuso
- Basciano tried to “tone it down” and told Cicale that what he had on the street was none of Mancuso’s business
- Massino points out it is Mancuso’s business if it’s illegal, but not if it’s legitimate

VB: All I know is that he [Mancuso] needs experience, but he’s a good to sit down because he’s a former (UI)

JM: Because you, you put him there.

VB: Yeah, but I, I was teachin’ him. He was comin’ along good, Joe, I like Michael. For me to reverse myself now I’d be hypocritical.

- Massino likes Mancuso
- Massino is still under the impression that Mancuso wasn’t in on the Pinzolo murder, and Basciano doesn’t correct him
- Massino questions if Mancuso’s problems with Cicale started after the Pinzolo murder

JM: He feels you’s clipped him and now he don’t trust you, maybe he’s hallucinatin’ you’re gonna clip him.

VB: Could be.

JM: This runs away with people, listen to Joe.

VB: And Mike, especially he’s a delusionist anyway, it could be, Bo, it could be, you might be right about that.

JM: What are they gonna do, are they gonna clip me next?

VB: You’re right.

JM: Maybe Vinny.

VB: Right.

JM: And, and, and Dom lookin’ to take this whole fuckin’ family.

VB: Yeah, right.

JM: I ain’t movin’ till I hear from Joe. Somethin’ spooked him.

- If Massino had been asked about Mancuso, he would have blocked his promotion
- Massino would have instead bumped Jerome Asaro and Joseph Cammarano, Jr. to the panel
- Asaro and Cammarano are both level-headed guys
- Massino changed his mind on Cammarano, Jr. when he heard Joseph Cammarano, Sr. worrying that his sons were going to be pinched
- Asaro works nine to five, so Massino says guys should go see him at night so as not to stop him from making a living


Patrick DeFilippo

- Patrick DeFilippo told Massino he only trusted him (Massino) and John Spirito
- DeFilippo also told Basciano that he’d support him
- Massino points out DeFilippo has no choice because he knows Massino backs Basciano
- “Vinny from Vegas”, “Tommy” [Ferreri?], and Armando Rea are in Las Vegas now
- Basciano suggested DeFilippo go to Vegas as well

VB: I says you know what you should do, Patty? I said you got your whole family in Vegas, why don’t you stay as a captain? Go to Vegas, I says, and take that dugime to Vegas, see what you could do with it. I says Johnny Joe’s a good guy. I says you leave John Joe up over here. John Joe’s a good guy for captain. What do you think about that, Joe?

JM: Johnny Joe?

VB: Yeah.

JM: He’s a loyal dog.

VB: Well, I think I have a problem livin’ in the same world with this guy. You tell me who.

JM: With who, Johnny Joe?

VB: No, no, no!

JM: Patty?

VB: Yeah. If you…

JM: Listen to me.

VB: … if you guarantee me, if you guarantee me, if you says Vinny, listen to me. I guarantee ya that this guy’d never come up to you, step up to you, I’ll leave him alone. And if you told me leave him alone, I’ll leave him alone.

JM: No, you gotta leave him alone, Bo.

VB: That’s all.

JM: First of all.

VB: No problem, done.

JM: First, first of all if he wins the case, this and that, we’ll see about maybe just take him down, I think he’ll probably go to Vegas and that’ll be the end of that.

- Basciano would be “disturbed” if DeFilippo were to stay in New York, but Massino tells him killing isn’t the answer
- Massino asks who Spirito would have under him if they made him captain, but he doesn’t get an answer
- Massino has a “pretty good rapport” with Spirito
- Peter Cosoleto took a swing at Spirito, so Spirito “gave him a few cracks”
- Massino wasn’t happy about that
- DeFilippo doesn’t like Louis Attanasio


Robert Perrino and the New York Post

JM: That kid lives with me, the kid Bobby, the Post.

VB: Bobby Perrino.

JM: They wanted to straighten him out. Al Walker put it up a sucka’s holler that he wanted to become a cop, he wore the greys. I took his name off. […] I told Bobby, I said listen, don’t come by the club, you’ll blow your job, there’s a lot of heat. If you got any problems, see Richie. I never got a dime, I never put nobody to work, nothing. I never invited him to any of my kids affairs. Nothin’! I go to jail, next thing, when I come home, my brother-in-law’s got ten people, a ghost. He’s got his kid there, no show job, this and that. I didn’t think he’s gonna be a rat.

VB: And you have made no money from him.

JM: Oh, you gotta do me a favor, Nicky did the ba-ba-ba-ba-bop, and they killed him. I find out when I come home, and I wasn’t happy about it.

- After the Perrino murder, Massino felt his three choices with Vitale were to kill him, take him down, or babysit him
- The Bonanno family still has the Post because Vincent DiSario is there
- DiSario told Basciano the Genovese family was trying to move into the Post
- Basciano told “Junior” [Chilli?] they can’t give up the post
- They don’t get any money from the Post, but they still get jobs
- Emanuel Guaragna’s kid and Massino’s nephew are at the Post
- Massino says he has a theory that they should stay away from unions

JM: I got ten years for nothin’. They become the pimps and we become their whores.

VB: And we’re gonna go away from ‘em.

JM: A hundred percent. That’s the reason why I don’t want no unions.

- Massino told his nephew and Guaragna’s kid that there were no no-show jobs and they had to work


Money

JM: Yeah, Christmas money, just what you sent.

VB: No, there’s another ten, Bo.

JM: And nothin’ else.

VB: Ah.

JM: From nobody.

VB: From nobody?

JM: Nobody. Nothin’, as of yesterday.

VB: Ah, there’s somethin’ wrong here then.

- Basciano sent Massino’s wife $60,000 the first week of November, including $5,000 from the cab stand
- Mancuso is going to buy the cab stand and give Massino his end of “the machines”

VB: Okay, every three months, I give out the war chest money, every two months I give you fourteen thousand, two hundred.

JM: I think they told me, they told me the war chest money, either, either fifty-eight hundred or sixty-three hundred.

VB: Every two months, that’s when we used to collect the war chest.

- The airport pays $6,000 a month and it’s split 50/50
- Frank Adamo owes Basciano $800 from the airport
- Every two month, Basciano was giving Massino roughly $32,000
- November was a bigger month because Basciano collected $5,000 from Peter Calabrese
- Cammarano, Sr. warned Massino that once he got sentenced Basciano would take everything from him
- Massino told Cammarano that Basciano was the only guy who had been giving him anything
- If Basciano was on the street, he would have got $15,000 from Ronald Carlucci this year
- Basciano calls Carlucci a mook

JM: That was Ronnie Mozzarella’s thing, oh, I gotta go sell mozzarella. I said listen, I ain’t never gonna stop anybody from makin’ a livin’. You gotta go at night, or go on the weekend. You gotta service your guys. TG put you there, you’re his gumbata. Oh, okay. I blew my business. I lost my deli. I lost my cake business ‘cause I was on the lam. I blew two fuckin’ business, you don’t wanna hear that? He shut up. Oh, that’s okay.

- Massino thinks someone is stealing the money that’s supposed to go to his wife

VB: It was goin’ to Alfred, I thought…

JM: You hear what I just tell ya?

VB: Yeah, you think Alfred would do that to you? He was, he is…

JM: I don’t wanna say, I’m tellin’ you somebody robbed me. My wife ain’t gonna lie, come on.

Inductions

- When Massino got arrested, he told the panel only to induct guys who had been around for at least eight years, they couldn’t make any captains, all three had to agree if they wanted to break a captain, and if they wanted to kill someone they all had to agree and send word to Massino
- Massino asks how many empty slots the family has for new inductees

VB: Just two, and uh, uh, that guy up there in uh, uh, Canada.

JM: Which guy in Canada?

VB: What’s his name.

JM: Frank, uh, Catrone (ph)?

VB: Whatever his name was, the guy that died.

JM: The guy that died?

VB: Yeah.

JM: Frank Catrone (ph).

VB: We got three. They don’t have the three seats to fill ‘em, Bo, anyway.

- Basciano inducted nine members, while Urso and Cammarano inducted six or seven
- Anthony Pipitone and Michael Virtuoso were inducted and assigned to the Cammarano crew
- Massino was shocked that Pipitone was put with Cammarano and didn’t know he “knew people there”
- Virtuoso belongs in the Cammarano crew
- Alphonse DiPilato was also inducted but Basciano acknowledges it was a mistake
- Cicale, Anthony Aiello, Mark Meleo, Michael Cassese, and Vito Badamo were also inducted
- Anthony Rabito knew Cassese and he was given to Nicholas Santora
- Badamo is from Pennsylvania
- Massino disapproves of Badamo’s induction because guys who came home from prison should wait five years before being inducted
- Basciano talked to Anthony Megale and Dominick Cirillo about the five-year moratorium
- Cirillo told Basciano that everyone bends the five-year rule
- Massino points out the Genovese family wanted a 10-year moratorium

JM: They wanted to make ten years. When we had the last meeting in 2000, they wanted to wait ten years. Now it’s Pete’s there, Larry’s there, Louie Bagels is there, and I’m there, Joe Waverly. I said I think ten years is a little too long. They said, what do you suggest? I said five years. Everybody, they all agreed with me. Five years, ten years’ a long time.

- The Gambino family wanted to induct Ernie Grillo after he came home
- Basciano had two guys who were supposed to wait five years because they were away for drug dealing
- Basciano told the Gambino family if they inducted Grillo he’d induct his two guys
- Basciano then put the names on the list and straightened them out

VB: The book’s out, it goes up to five years, but everybody doesn’t say that.

JM: But whatever happened with the two every year? We still didn’t get to the bottom of the line.

VB: I didn’t go along with it.

JM: So, now.

VB: John’s people went along with it, the Lucchese mob went along with it, then they came back and says well, you might have some merit.

JM: That don’t make no sense.

- Massino feels they are going to “blow” the two extra spots and Basciano agrees
- The Gambino family sent a list of 10 proposed members to Mancuso and Basciano
- Mancuso spotted that one of the guys on the list had already been replaced
- Massino points out Peter Gotti would do that
- Basciano went to see Megale and confronted him for trying to take advantage by reusing dead slots
- Megale brought the list back to Joseph Corozzo, who claimed it was a mistake
- Basciano doesn’t believe it was a mistake
- The Genovese family straightened out a couple of guys but they’re all “pieces of garbage” according to Basciano
- Basciano knocked a guy off a Colombo family proposed list because his father was a cop
- The Colombo family tried to claim that Massino approved the guy, but Basciano called bullshit


The Genovese family

VB: I told Dom, I went to see Dom, I went to see Dom. First of all, he’s totally (UI)

JM: Let me ask you another question, do we have anything to do with that?

VB: Absolutely not. C’mon.

JM: Okay, okay, that’s all, that’s it, you tell me, that’s good enough.

VB: I went to Dom.

JM: ‘Cause I don’t know what do think.

VB: No. There was a beef with the kid. There was a beef with the kid, but it was a physical beef.

JM: Okay, okay, you tell me that, I take your word.

VB: They came back and apologized to me. They apologized to me.

JM: But you know what I don’t understand? This was all…

VB: That came from Dom, that came from Dom.

- Ciro Perrone sent word to Basciano through Salvatore Esposito that Perry Criscitelli was a rat

VB: And Zookie sent word that be care, Matty the Horse, be careful, I met with Matty the Horse and Dom. Be careful with the uh, Perry. Listen to me, do you have proof? Do you have proof? Because they wanted Perry to be, be a rat. You wanna know why? So they took over the feast. I said Ciro, do me a favor, stop circulatin’ this guy’s name as a rat. I checked it out, until you have proof let me know.

- Massino has a good rapport with Matthew Ianniello
- Peter Calabrese had also wrongly labelled Criscitelli a rat when it was in fact another Staten Island restaurant owner
- Basciano and Massino both like Criscitelli, but Massino doesn’t know him well
- Massino met Criscitelli once when he straightened him out
- Massino and Criscitelli went to an Oldies show together at Madison Square Garden


The Colombo family

JM: I can’t believe when you told me that Sonny, you’re sure with, you’re sure with Sonny, Franzese?

VB: Official underboss.

JM: Official underboss.

VB: Official underboss.

- Massino can’t believe Franzese is the underboss because he’s on parole
- Nicholas Santora met Franzese as the underboss
- Santora has a good relationship with Thomas Gioeli, so Basciano would send him to see the Colombo family

JM: Tommy Shots a good guy. So is Tommy Shots there, Dino too?

VB: Dino’s a caporegime with them.

JM: See, that I know, I didn’t ever met him, he’s good friends with Sal, he’s a friend.

- Basciano tells Massino that that Gioeli and the Colombo family are behind them on policy 100%
- Massino points out Franzese must love being underboss but is surely going to end up back in prison
- Massino predicts Franzese won’t last until Easter

VB: He’s [Franzese’s] in some shape, Bo. He might live to be a hundred. He’ll be the screwiest underboss on the (UI), oh yeah.

- In the MDC, “Patty Dopey” incorrectly introduced John DeRoss to Basciano as the underboss

VB: Jackie says Patty, you givin’ me a bump? (Claps)

JM: No.

VB: That’s what Jackie told Patty.

- Massino only knew DeRoss as a goodfella but had heard he was on a panel


The Lucchese and Gambino families

- Matthew Madonna is running the show in the Lucchese family but doesn’t see anybody and stays home while he’s on parole
- Joseph DiNapoli is running round for Madonna
- Madonna wanted to talk to Basciano once about something to do with $280,000
- Basciano wanted to talk about “policy”, but Madonna wasn’t interested
- Basciano then said to forget it and he’d meet Madonna once his parole was up
- Massino met Madonna for “three seconds” in Lewisburg and knew he wasn’t a member then
- Massino never met Madonna as a member after he came home

VB: They said he’s [Madonna’s] smart, he goes off the handle once in awhile, but he’s…

JM: I hear he was bitter with them.

VB: … with the Luchese’s?

JM: Yeah, very bitter, he loves Vic. Loves Vic.

- Vic Amuso was put in the hole in USP Atlanta for running the family from prison
- Massino doesn’t think Joseph Corozzo wants to “run around that much”
- Basciano says Corozzo is understandably scared to death, but you can’t be scared and take an administration position
- The Lucchese family are aligned with the Gambino family on policy because Madonna and Arnold Squitieri were in prison together
- Basciano and Mancuso sat down with Anthony Megale a couple of times, but Basciano isn’t “too crazy about him”
- Basciano checked Megale because he heard a tape of him (Megale) claiming that Sal Vitale had been a state trooper for four years


Miscellaneous

- Alfred Altadonna tried to pass messages through Massino’s daughter three times
- Massino reiterates he doesn’t want his daughters involved in passing messages

JM: You, you might as well put my kids against the wall and kill them, too, what do you’s want to do?

- Basciano and Massino agree they both trust Anthony Indelicato
- Basciano and Massino agree they love Indelicato and he’s loyal but he’s smart and dumb at the same time
- Massino brings up how Joseph Cammarano, Sr. was offered an 11-year plea
- Basciano says Cammarano would be nuts not to take the deal
- Louis Restivo is sick and “cryin’ all the time”
- Basciano is confused why Restivo got house arrest because he’s sick when Cammarano and Massino didn’t
- Massino saw in the newspaper that the government was arguing for $3 million bail for John Palazzolo to get out of prison for one day to see a dentist
- An issue of the magazine FHM printed a photograph of Massino with a woman at Frank DeCicco’s funeral in 1986
- Massino doesn’t know who the woman is, but his wife saw the magazine

JM: My daughter tells me yesterday, my wife got a microscope. And she’s lookin’ and she’s tellin’ my daughter, she’s too old and too fat, daddy wouldn’t go with her.

- James Tartaglione flipping broke Massino’s heart
- Everyone liked Frank Lino
- Massino wasn’t happy about how Cicale had beaten up Gino Galestro
- Massino and Basciano agree that Galestro should never have been made
- Massino tells Basciano to shelve Galestro and “throw him out of the family”
- Salvatore Vitale snuck Richard Cantarella into the Bonanno family
- Massino would not have inducted Joseph D’Amico because of his cocaine use
- On John Sciremammano:

JM: Who’s on Bath Avenue? Who you got there?

VB: Dominick, he’s down, too. But Junior [Chilli?] didn’t want him there, he put this Johnny Nassau there.

JM: Everyone’s scared, too, that guy, right?

VB: Scared to death.

JM: That’s what I heard.

VB: Scared to death.

- Sciremammano doesn’t look in Basciano’s eyes when he talks to him
- Massino thinks “Junior” knows Sciremammano all his life

[chin_gigante]

Transcripts now uploaded in the FBI files section (viewtopic.php?f=44&t=9599). Thanks again to thekiduknow for providing me with them.

[Snakes]

Thanks, Chin. Lots of interesting stuff, but two things that stood out to me:

1. The families agreeing on a guy newly released from prison needing to wait five years before induction (of course the Genovese would want ten). Is this something that was previously known?
2. Basciano making the crack about Franzese "living to be 100"

[newera_212]

Thanks. Read through the diner transcripts yesterday. Really funny to see the change of tone and subject matter between the first and second diner meetings. Also funny how these guys seem to follow along and know what's being talked about. Sometimes they were all over the place and it was a little tough to follow. Basciano doesn't seem like he has great command over the English language lol

[johnny_scootch]

Great stuff chin.

Who is Vic Juliano?

[Browniety86]

Great stuff chin.

Who is Vic Juliano?

Same Vic Juliano who did PI work for the Gambinos?

[Cheech]

Thanks. Read through the diner transcripts yesterday. Really funny to see the change of tone and subject matter between the first and second diner meetings. Also funny how these guys seem to follow along and know what's being talked about. Sometimes they were all over the place and it was a little tough to follow. Basciano doesn't seem like he has great command over the English language lol

That kid joe bonelli always comes up. I feel like someone always wanted to kill that guy

[Pogo The Clown]

You got to love how all these guys constantly bad mouth each other behind each other's backs.


Pogo

[Cheech]

ya everyones an assshole.

vinny comes off educated, uses words you dont usually see from typical mob guys. hes for sure not dumb.

[Cheech]

id it get back to Sal? You know who that is, it's Joe
Martino.: He's a friend with the West Side. His
brother hit Anthony, a kid around me. Okay, they had a
fight in the club, and he hit Anthony. And I wanted to
clip him, I wanted to clip him, but he wouldn't let me
clip him. It was two different incidents.
This is different than this?


who is the joe martino? made guy with genovese?

[johnny_scootch]

Great stuff chin.

Who is Vic Juliano?

Same Vic Juliano who did PI work for the Gambinos?

Made guys do PI work? New fucking day

[chin_gigante]

Great stuff chin.

Who is Vic Juliano?

Same Vic Juliano who did PI work for the Gambinos?

Made guys do PI work? New fucking day

Vic Juliano isnt a member, he's an ex cop and PI