Sciascia and Montagna

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Lupara
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by Lupara »

B. wrote:The number of members in a tiny town like Cattolica Eraclea is probably outnumbered by the ~20 in Montreal. Hell, probably most of that family's best prospects left for Montreal anyway.

Wiseguy -- was there a conversation where a Rizzuto told someone he didn't recognize Montagna as boss of the Bonannos? Or are you thinking of when Montagna told Nick Rizzuto to step aside and Rizzuto refused?
It's from this now famous article from Capeci. I'm sure you've read it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-cap ... 17688.html

What is interesting is that Capeci states that the Bonannos in New York were very much interested about what was going in Montreal. Perhaps that offers some clues..
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by HairyKnuckles »

SonnyBlackstein wrote:An aside: does anyone have any background on Urso?
Crew, borough, history etc?

Personally have little knowledge of 'Tony Green' and his arrest as acting was my first awareness of him.

Thanks in advance.
I believe he originally was from a Brooklyn neigborhood located close to the Queens border. Perhaps East New York, but later operated out of Queens and moved to East Meadow, LI when the money started pouring in. He was made in 1988 and took over Louis Restivo´s crew in 1991, the crew once lead by Sal Catalano. It´s uncertain though if Urso, when he was made, was made into this same crew.
There you have it, never printed before.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by toto »

Chris Christie wrote:Interesting idea. I kinda have a different opinion. Allegedly upon deportation he allegedly told a guard "he is done." He could have been lying. There's that. But I don't think there is much of a way of him bossing NY from afar. New info has come out that he was a subservient to Mancuso, given his status as acting, I find it difficult believing NY would keep him as an AB. I see him eventually deciding to get back in on the action and perhaps tried to "wrestle" Montreal under his control. Using his former status of AB with a guarantee that he can "bring NY closer" ie: send more money. I think NY said: "do what you want but we can't officially back you." This is all fantasy and speculation from my end.

And as for some more fantasy. First, credit to Lupara for explaining/providing info that the son's murder WAS NOT a directly related. I say not directly because do you believe this businessman would have carried it out if Vito was still on the street? Obviously their status was weakened for such a hit to occur. Since it appears Montagna tried to "take over" Montreal, it probably didn't involve him pulling out two tommy guns and announcing "I'm takin' over!" with a stoogie in his mouth. It was more likely he was integrating himself into that world, feeling his way around and using his former NY status as his moxy in why he should be considered influential. That would most likely go outside the realm of made guys and into the pool of statused associates who despite being non-made, make the mafia what is is via connections to legitimate businessman and thus, have influence in some areas. If Montagna advertised that certain members could do better under him, I could see them going along. Outside of the Rizzuto blood family, how many other members loved them? We know that certain made members were formerly with the Cotronis. Some of them probably wouldn't have minded Rizzuto's being removed.

I guess what we can take from this, is that there was an opening for Montagna to do what he did. If he were deported in 85 would he have tried such a thing? This shows the greed of NY (they could have told Montagna to cease and desist at any time) combined with the factionalization of Montreal following Vito's incarceration. That's my take.
Agree with your post. As I mentioned in another post in this thread there is also the Gambino-'Ndrangheta link which must have given some kind of nice words or an indication of backing for the moves in Montreal. I find the coincidence between that link getting stronger and the moves in Montreal against Rizzuto too suspicious.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by Pogo The Clown »

HairyKnuckles wrote:
SonnyBlackstein wrote:An aside: does anyone have any background on Urso?
Crew, borough, history etc?

Personally have little knowledge of 'Tony Green' and his arrest as acting was my first awareness of him.

Thanks in advance.
I believe he originally was from a Brooklyn neigborhood located close to the Queens border. Perhaps East New York, but later operated out of Queens and moved to East Meadow, LI when the money started pouring in. He was made in 1988 and took over Louis Restivo´s crew in 1991, the crew once lead by Sal Catalano. It´s uncertain though if Urso, when he was made, was made into this same crew.

He was also the Acting Consiglieri for a few years before become the Acting Boss. He is also the recipient of the Dumbass Award for talking about a 13 year old murder with a wired up Jimmy Tartaglione. :mrgreen:


Pogo
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by TommyGambino »

toto wrote:
Chris Christie wrote:Interesting idea. I kinda have a different opinion. Allegedly upon deportation he allegedly told a guard "he is done." He could have been lying. There's that. But I don't think there is much of a way of him bossing NY from afar. New info has come out that he was a subservient to Mancuso, given his status as acting, I find it difficult believing NY would keep him as an AB. I see him eventually deciding to get back in on the action and perhaps tried to "wrestle" Montreal under his control. Using his former status of AB with a guarantee that he can "bring NY closer" ie: send more money. I think NY said: "do what you want but we can't officially back you." This is all fantasy and speculation from my end.

And as for some more fantasy. First, credit to Lupara for explaining/providing info that the son's murder WAS NOT a directly related. I say not directly because do you believe this businessman would have carried it out if Vito was still on the street? Obviously their status was weakened for such a hit to occur. Since it appears Montagna tried to "take over" Montreal, it probably didn't involve him pulling out two tommy guns and announcing "I'm takin' over!" with a stoogie in his mouth. It was more likely he was integrating himself into that world, feeling his way around and using his former NY status as his moxy in why he should be considered influential. That would most likely go outside the realm of made guys and into the pool of statused associates who despite being non-made, make the mafia what is is via connections to legitimate businessman and thus, have influence in some areas. If Montagna advertised that certain members could do better under him, I could see them going along. Outside of the Rizzuto blood family, how many other members loved them? We know that certain made members were formerly with the Cotronis. Some of them probably wouldn't have minded Rizzuto's being removed.

I guess what we can take from this, is that there was an opening for Montagna to do what he did. If he were deported in 85 would he have tried such a thing? This shows the greed of NY (they could have told Montagna to cease and desist at any time) combined with the factionalization of Montreal following Vito's incarceration. That's my take.
Agree with your post. As I mentioned in another post in this thread there is also the Gambino-'Ndrangheta link which must have given some kind of nice words or an indication of backing for the moves in Montreal. I find the coincidence between that link getting stronger and the moves in Montreal against Rizzuto too suspicious.

Someone did say Cali has been back and forth to Canada recently, intersting theory
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

Thanks Pogo and HK for the info.
Always appreciated.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by B. »

Chris Christie wrote:
B. wrote:
Chris Christie wrote:
B. wrote:The number of members in a tiny town like Cattolica Eraclea is probably outnumbered by the ~20 in Montreal. Hell, probably most of that family's best prospects left for Montreal anyway.

Wiseguy -- was there a conversation where a Rizzuto told someone he didn't recognize Montagna as boss of the Bonannos? Or are you thinking of when Montagna told Nick Rizzuto to step aside and Rizzuto refused?
I thought that after Montagna got deported, Rizzuto the father said he would not recognize Montaga.

I think the Castellammaresi group in Williamsburgh probably outnumbered the group in CDC by 1920. Just my thinking based on everything else I've seen.
Oh yeah, I'd say any "New World' family was bigger by the 1920s (or even earlier) than their Sicilian counterparts.

I don't know what the original source is on the Montagna / Nick Rizzuto conversation. The gist of it seems to be that Montagna was looking to put himself in a leadership role and Rizzuto opposed it, but unless there is a recording of the conversation itself, I think we have to interpret it loosely. It wouldn't be surprising to hear that Montagna was still holding onto the idea of being acting boss and thought he could use that to start running the show there. Despite being a Montreal citizen with ties to Sciascia and probably a familiarity with the Montreal landscape, it's obvious why the dominant faction wouldn't take kindly to it. Still, one of the things I've theorized over the past few years is that some of Montagna's allies in Montreal joined him in part because he was "in the right" when it came to mob politics, along with their own personal agendas

Good thing there were those "hundreds of Sicilian made men" looking out for the Rizzuto's interests throughout the world!
Interesting idea. I kinda have a different opinion. Allegedly upon deportation he allegedly told a guard "he is done." He could have been lying. There's that. But I don't think there is much of a way of him bossing NY from afar. New info has come out that he was a subservient to Mancuso, given his status as acting, I find it difficult believing NY would keep him as an AB. I see him eventually deciding to get back in on the action and perhaps tried to "wrestle" Montreal under his control. Using his former status of AB with a guarantee that he can "bring NY closer" ie: send more money. I think NY said: "do what you want but we can't officially back you." This is all fantasy and speculation from my end.
That's along the lines of what I meant. Not that he was still acting boss (or trying to be acting boss) of the Bonannos from Montreal, but that he was using his status as the most recent acting boss to help take control of Montreal.

And Lupara, re: Capeci mentioning NY's interest in Montreal. If you think we're interested in what was going on up there, you can only imagine how the NY Bonannos felt. They like to read Gangland and mob books, too haha.

Anyway, maybe worth starting another topic to discuss what could be going on now. Felice mentioned that the Montreal crew may be under the direction of the Gambino family now (whether that means they transferred membership or are simply under them in the same way the DeCavalcantes are is another question). But this is already 20 pages deep and I'd rather we get a new topic for that.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by B. »

Interestingly, JD mentioned that the Romero Gucci who appears as a deceased member (died 1997) on a Bonanno induction list from Vitale was probably Romeo Bucci, part of the Montreal crew.

Based on this list, they were going to be making a New York member to replace the deceased Bucci in Montreal. This list is from at earliest 1999, but more likely 2000 or 2001, so the NY administration was still keeping track of Montreal member deaths at that time.

I would doubt that they were getting this info by reading the obituaries in Montreal newspapers, so someone had communicated this info. Maybe Sciascia before he died since Gucci died in 1997.
Last edited by B. on Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by LcnBios »

They were aware of other Montreal deaths after Sciascia also. Patrick DeFilippo and some of his crew members (Guaragna, Mancuso, Spirito) were all surveilled attending the wake of Giuseppe Arcuri in June 2001.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by Lupara »

JD wrote:They were aware of other Montreal deaths after Sciascia also. Patrick DeFilippo and some of his crew members (Guaragna, Mancuso, Spirito) were all surveilled attending the wake of Giuseppe Arcuri in June 2001.
But that was a Giuseppe Arcuri from New York, not Montreal. I believe he was a cousin of the Arcuris in Montreal. Montagna was close to him as well so I think he was a member of DeFillipo's crew.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by B. »

Lupara wrote:
JD wrote:They were aware of other Montreal deaths after Sciascia also. Patrick DeFilippo and some of his crew members (Guaragna, Mancuso, Spirito) were all surveilled attending the wake of Giuseppe Arcuri in June 2001.
But that was a Giuseppe Arcuri from New York, not Montreal. I believe he was a cousin of the Arcuris in Montreal. Montagna was close to him as well so I think he was a member of DeFillipo's crew.
He may have been with Sciascia before that, like Montagna apparently was. Though I've mocked the Sixth Family's wild speculation, they did do great research and talk about Arcuri's close relationship to Sciascia. It could also be a Baldo Amato type situation where he was in a different crew but socially very close to Sciascia.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by antimafia »

Lupara wrote:
JD wrote:They were aware of other Montreal deaths after Sciascia also. Patrick DeFilippo and some of his crew members (Guaragna, Mancuso, Spirito) were all surveilled attending the wake of Giuseppe Arcuri in June 2001.
But that was a Giuseppe Arcuri from New York, not Montreal. I believe he was a cousin of the Arcuris in Montreal. Montagna was close to him as well so I think he was a member of DeFillipo's crew.
I think JD was suggesting or stating that because Montrealers attended Giuseppe Arcuri's wake in New York and would have interacted with the New York Bonannos, the Bonanno Family administration did know of people in the Montreal Mafia who had died. B. speculated that maybe New York knew of this Romeo Bucci's death in 1997 through Sciascia, which is very possible, but I think JD is suggesting or stating that New York would have at least known of Bucci's death and other Montrealers' deaths after 1999, the year of Sciascia's death.

In the rest of the post I will be repeating what I've previously written here and other organized-crime forums.

Please note that despite some posters' thinking that part of Humphreys and Lamothe's agenda when writing The Sixth Family included wiping out all links between the Rizzuto organization and the New York Bonannos, those of you on the Real Deal or formerly there may recall that the earlier part of my quote from my personal communication with Humphreys states "{t}he Giuseppe Arcuri we were interested in was born in 1930 in Cattolica, arrived in New York and was decidedly a made Bonanno man who was a Sixth Family partner through Gerlando Sciascia and others." I found out through Canadian organized-crime writer James Dubro that during Lee Lamothe's crime-writing days (Lamothe was also an investigative reporter besides being an organized-crime writer), Lamothe had always been interested in determining in what family or to what family Canadian mafiosi or mafia associates respectively belonged. Dubro told me Lamothe was obsessed. I don't think Lamothe was aware how interested many of us would be, especially the Canadian posters among us, to read that type of information in articles or books--even simple charts or lists would probably be voraciously gobbled up.

Humphreys and Lamothe did not know the exact relationships between Giuseppe Arcuri of New York, Domenico Arcuri Sr. of Montreal, and Giacinto Arcuri of Toronto. I believe that in the most recent edition of The Sixth Family, the co-authors seemed only reasonably sure that Giuseppe and Giacinto were brothers, with Domenico probably a cousin to the two. Recall that whenever Sciascia found himself in Toronto, he stayed at Giacinto's residence; so this is even more evidence of the close ties between Sciascia and Giuseppe Arcuri, who together owned a Long Island pizzeria.

Giacinto Arcuri had very tight ties with the New York Bonannos because of his ability to supply heroin. Giacinto and his crew were distinguished by law enforcement in Canada as distinct from the Toronto Sicilian Group headed by Nino Cammalleri, the uncle of Vito Rizzuto's wife. However, Giacinto and this Cammalleri have always been very close to each other and probably remain so to this day. I don't know whether we'll ever find out into which family many older Sicilian crime figures in the Toronto area such as Giacinto, Cammalleri, and others were made--or even whether they are made. I suspect that when Lamothe and Humphreys suggested in their book that Giacinto figured even higher in the Toronto underworld hierarchy than Peter Scarcella, Lamothe was the one who had done the research to make this claim. Some of you may know that the professional and personal relationships that Lamothe and Antonio Nicaso previously enjoyed at one time grew even more strained when Lamothe had written on Rick Porrello's old crime board his disagreement with an unnamed person about the number of Sicilian crime groups in Toronto, said unnamed person having been cited in the news the day before. That unnamed person was Nicaso, and when I mentioned to him what Lamothe has posted, I had no idea he and Lamothe hadn't been on good terms for some time. Antonio contacted Lee, and Lamothe later posted an apology on the crime board. This is an example of Lamothe's obsession, but I don't know whether for example, when he and Nicaso were writing their 2001 book Bloodlines, Lamothe limited himself to US Department of Justice reports and FBI reports or whether he also relied on underworld sources.

One of the points I want to make is that not every Sicilian male criminal who was born or raised in Cattolica Eraclea and then made his way to North America last century must have been made into what was then the Cattolica Eraclea cosca led by Nino Manno, who in my opinion Edwards and Nicaso mistakenly indicated in their recent book that Manno settled in Canada shortly after Nick Rizzuto Sr. did--in fact Manno was deported from Canada at least once for being here illegally. Lupara had suggested in this thread that maybe Nick Rizzuto Sr. was a transfer to the Bonanno Family--this is a possibility insofar as there's even the slightest uncertainty that Rizzuto was made in Sicily before becoming a member of the Bonanno Family. Some of that uncertainty comes from Italian law enforcement's views about Rizzuto, who in 1992 was listed in an Italian police report as the head of the Manno crime familly in Cattolica Eraclea, later named the Manno-Rizzuto family. We've all forgotten that Lamothe and Nicaso stated in Bloodlines that Rizzuto was made into the Siculiana family--the detail in Mafia inc. that Nino Manno's mother's maiden name was Caruana was intriguing to say the least. But in that same book you learn that Tommaso Buscetta had asked Rizzuto about the latter's status within the Montreal Mafia, to which Rizzuto replied that he and others were under the Bonannos. If Lamothe still believed Rizzuto was made into the Siculiana family, I think there should have been more of an effort made in The Sixth Family to clarify relatonships, especially if the book's co-authors truly did hold the untenable belief that some Rizzuto organization members had dual membership.

Later tonight or tomorrow I'll try to post a bit more about Bucci in the "Bonanno proposed induction list" thread (http://www.theblackhand.club/forum/view ... 164#p24164).
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by Mikeyb211 »

B. wrote:
Pogo The Clown wrote:
B. wrote:(at one point saying something like, "I was the best kept secret in the NY mob until Basciano blabbed to Tartaglione about me being a capo")

Funny as Cicale wasn't even a Capo while Tartaglione was on the street. You definite ego stroking there.


I haven't read this book so thanks for the tidbits. Does Cicale describe who was present at and made during his making ceremony? Thanks.


Pogo
He specifically says that Basciano referred to him as an acting capo to Tartaglione.

The only reference to his making ceremony is that he was made with a Bronx-based soldier called Little Patty who had done 18 years in prison. This has to be Pasquale Maiorino who had been convicted of murdering a homosexual during a robbery in the early 1980s. His father is Salvatore Maiorino. Little Patty is described as being in the DeFilippo/Mancuso/Montagna crew.

Lupara wrote:Capeci wrote that Montagna was elected by the family capos. Was Cicale still on the streets when Basciano was incarcerated? How would he otherwise know?
I'm not sure the exactly timeline on him getting busted versus the different personnel changes. They left out all of the details on Basciano's arrest and glossed over a lot leading up to it, and it only abruptly and briefly mentions Cicale's own arrest. It says the family's old timers opposed Montagna's promotion and Montagna began carrying a weapon as a result.

Other stuff:

- Gino Galestro had been arriving to meetings late and not showing respect to his superiors, so Basciano ordered Cicale to physically assault him, which did happen in an attorney's restroom. Galestro apologized and changed his behavior afterward. The belief was that following all of the family's problems, Galestro was purposely trying to get shelved (keep in mind that Galestro's capo Cantarella and acting capo D'Amico had both flipped).

- Mike Mancuso's father was close to Gambinos Funzie Sisca and Arnold Squitieri (who are brothers-in-law) and with them the night he was murdered by "a Bronx street thug." Anyone have any info on this? There was a "Tony Nose" Mancuso in the FBN book whose father was also named Michael. I assume this Tony is Mike Nose's father.

- Mancuso was supposed to be a back-up shooter in the Sciascia hit, but according to Cicale he didn't show up. DeFilippo who was fond of Mancuso protected him when asked about it.

- Basciano and Vito Rizzuto maintained a drug pipeline after Sciascia's murder, which Cicale believes was in part because of Basciano's relationship to Sciascia. The presumption seems to be that Rizzuto's beef was with Massino and not the Bonanno family, so Basciano traveled to Montreal on the premise of getting hair transplants but secretly met with Rizzuto to arrange drug deals without Massino's knowledge.

- Sal Montagna was promoted to acting capo of the DeFilippo crew when Basciano named Mancuso acting underboss. Massino sent an order to Basciano to demote Montagna, but Basciano ignored the order.

- When Tony Green was the acting boss, Vito Rizzuto sent down $25k as a Christmas bonus. When Basciano became acting boss, he sent word that Rizzuto should send $100k and sent Sal Montagna to Canada to pick it up. When Cicale was in jail with Baldo Amato, Amato heard that Rizzuto "gave Montagna shit" about it, but still paid the full amount.
Does anyone know the timeline of Tony Green as acting boss and then I believe subsequently Basciano? I thought I read Tony Green was first then got pinched is that correct?

I asked this on bb but never got an answer..anyone know more about Tony Green? Despite the fact that hes fuckin weird looking, seemed to come out of nowhere to me although im an admitted mob novice especially anywhere outside Philly..does anyone know what crew he was in and was he a skipper bedore being acting I assume and was he a Bk or Queens guy? Appreciate any insight
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by LcnBios »

Anthony Urso came up in the Massino crew beginning around the late 1970s. They met through a guy referred to as Johnny Pigeon. He was made around the 1986-1988 period in Salvatore Vitale's crew. After Massino got out of jail he promoted Urso to a captain, this would have been around 1993, maybe a little later. Before his promotion he had been the guy in charge of running gambling etc for Massino and Vitale, but they didn't want a captain on the street taking care of things so Anthony Furino was put in charge of collections.

Urso was appointed Acting Consigliere around December 2002. He was introduced with that rank in December 2003 and indicted a month later so not sure about the timeline re acting boss.
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Re: Sciascia and Montagna

Post by Mikeyb211 »

JD wrote:Anthony Urso came up in the Massino crew beginning around the late 1970s. They met through a guy referred to as Johnny Pigeon. He was made around the 1986-1988 period in Salvatore Vitale's crew. After Massino got out of jail he promoted Urso to a captain, this would have been around 1993, maybe a little later. Before his promotion he had been the guy in charge of running gambling etc for Massino and Vitale, but they didn't want a captain on the street taking care of things so Anthony Furino was put in charge of collections.

Urso was appointed Acting Consigliere around December 2002. He was introduced with that rank in December 2003 and indicted a month later so not sure about the timeline re acting boss.
Thanks for the solid info JD appreciate the response. So he was a queens guy right being with Vitale? Im assuming he was made capo when Sal became UB? Was he acting consig for TG or is that before he was consigliere? Thanks Again pal
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