1963 Chart Discussion/Suggestions.

[Angelo Santino]

The methodology and aim is provide the most accurate account by utilizing documentation and experts (Deitche- Tampa, Burnstein- Detroit, Kansas City- Jenkins, Genovese- HK, Rockford-Cavita etc). There are individuals who people believe may be a member, they can be included in a Suspected Member section.

The focus is on the membership which is very black and white. They will be accurate in terms of LCN membership but it's not the full story or showcase of these groups who as we know, utilized/worked with alot of non-members, Italian and non. Any US Mob history that doesn't illustrate the significance of Lansky, Alex, Rockman & many others is incomplete. But they weren't official full ceremony'd amico nos strombergs. They would go on an Operational chart which doesn't adhere to the Valachi-style layout.

The Sangiorgi report inspired me to include the background info- parents, origin, marriage, occupation because that's what he noted in his 1898 reports which gave contemporary researches a glimpse into the Palermo Mafia at the time. It was John Dickie who took Sangiorgi's work and compiled the info into stats and was able to conclude that most of the membership's occupations centered around the citrus trade while bosses were fondo managers. The occupations of the 63 members show most of them were employed. I think back to when the Bonanno member within the last 10 years was shot on his way to work and some on the forum mocked him for having a job and using that as an example of how the mob has fallen. In all actuality they always had jobs and most of them were not fronts. Hopefully the work with these 63 charts will serve future researchers the same way.

With each chart I'm including statistics-
Origins
Occupations
Addresses

Once all the Families are complete all of these statistics can be merged and we will be able to make definitive factual statements within a margin of error about the US as a whole. Which is why they all need to be congruent with each other.

[cavita]

I'll get to work on my end with addresses, occupations, etc

[Angelo Santino]

I'll get to work on my end with addresses, occupations, etc

For what family? Rockford? Already completed it. DM me your email and I'll send you the excel doc.

[cavita]

I'll get to work on my end with addresses, occupations, etc

For what family? Rockford? Already completed it. DM me your email and I'll send you the excel doc.

Yes i have it .. I think some of the addresses and occupations aren't listed though

[Angelo Santino]

I'll get to work on my end with addresses, occupations, etc

For what family? Rockford? Already completed it. DM me your email and I'll send you the excel doc.

Yes i have it .. I think some of the addresses and occupations aren't listed though

Correct away, you're the expert on this group and I appreciate all your input.

[thekiduknow]

I think your suggestion of including the wives was a smart move. They are a great window into how interconnected a lot of these guys actually were.

[chin_gigante]

This is a very interesting methodology when considering the inter-marriages. Just naturally I've found myself doing a lot of 2015 charts (Philadelphia, DeCav in process, Bonanno in progress) and I hit a grey area considering a lot of people are still alive. Don't want to post someone's details online. But especially with the DeCavs the intermarriages are fascinating

[B.]

A lot of great stuff has already come from finding these occupations and wives. As Joe the Father said, the membership of his Family was a "microcosm of society itself" and we can see that through some of this info. We're finding employment / marital connections we didn't know existed.

I was open to the idea of including one or two significant associates if people felt strong about it, but I agree it is not true membership data and that's the focus of these charts. I believe each chart should be consistent, where if we're not going to have Joe Diaz in Tampa then we're not going to have Gus Alex in Chicago or Lansky in Genovese. It's not about denying their influence, it's just not the focus of a chart series focused on the strict membership of Cosa Nostra and it saves us debating which associates to include.

This project is going to provide us with hard data that will be valuable for future research. I'm guilty of generalizing based on who was dominant in a Family but we'll be able to actually see what the make-up of the Families were with only a small margin of error.

[Angelo Santino]

Done:
Dallas
Detroit
Kanas City
Los Angeles
New Orleans
Rockford
San Jose
Springfield
Tampa

Mostly Done:
Gambino
Genovese
Pittsburgh
New England

In Progress:
Lucchese
Colombo
Bonanno (kiduknow & B)
Philadelphia

Remaining:
Buffalo, NY
Chicago, IL
Cleveland, OH
Denver, CO
Elizabeth, NJ
Madison, WI
Milwaukee, WI
Northeast PA
San Francisco, CA
St. Louis, MO

[Angelo Santino]

1 When it comes to transfers, I'll place the individuals with the Family they were with in 63, I'll include a (Transferred from __).

2 Does anyone care about the age stats? Mean, Medium, Mode and Range type stuff? Pogo, Wiseguy? What information (aside from criminal operandi) would you find useful as stats?

3 The stats I include will work for 1) Micro-stats for individual Families and 2) Macro-stats for the American Mafia at large. There will be a margin of error but perhaps in the future, people can take it farther than I am able to currently.

4 What stats would be beneficial? Percentage of members born in US and Italy in 1963? Average age?

5 The Gambinos and Genoveses were estimated each as having approximately 300 members, B., if you could provide me the approximate membership estimates for the other groups you're able to, that would be helpful.

[cavita]

Done:
Dallas
Detroit
Kanas City
Los Angeles
New Orleans
Rockford
San Jose
Tampa

Mostly Done:
Gambino
Genovese
Pittsburgh
New England

In Progress:
Lucchese
Colombo
Bonanno (kiduknow & B)
Philadelphia

Remaining:
Buffalo, NY
Chicago, IL
Cleveland, OH
Denver, CO
Elizabeth, NJ
Madison, WI
Milwaukee, WI
Northeast PA
San Francisco, CA
St. Louis, MO

I guess Springfield was done, more or less. I'll see if I can work on Madison with what paltry info there is.

[Angelo Santino]

Done:
Dallas
Detroit
Kanas City
Los Angeles
New Orleans
Rockford
San Jose
Springfield
Tampa

Mostly Done:
Gambino
Genovese
Pittsburgh
New England

In Progress:
Lucchese
Colombo
Bonanno (kiduknow & B)
Philadelphia

Remaining:
Buffalo, NY
Chicago, IL
Cleveland, OH
Denver, CO
Elizabeth, NJ
Madison, WI
Milwaukee, WI
Northeast PA
San Francisco, CA
St. Louis, MO

I guess Springfield was done, more or less. I'll see if I can work on Madison with what paltry info there is.

You're right. Added.

If you want, start a Madison thread. I'll join in. It's good to take a break from NY from time to time.

I'm curious about Buffalo and St Louis. The DeCavs will also be interesting. Denver as well.

[motorfab]

There was a Family in Omaha ?

[OcSleeper]

I was always under the impression it was mainly a KC crew there and some Chicago guys.

[PolackTony]

There was a Family in Omaha ?

I’m not aware of any evidence for Families in Omaha or Des Moines. Chicago had operations in these places (as well as KC and possibly Detroit); for example, the FBN stated that the Chicago “Italian organization” was responsible for supplying the heroin market in Omaha and a number of other cities, while Chicago member Luigi Fratto was based in Des Moines, but I don’t know that anything has surfaced regarding independent families having existed there. Having said that, it’s probably a strong hypothesis that there could very well have been mafia activity in these towns early on, as they definitely had Sicilian colonies. If they were in Pueblo, Dallas, Madison, Springfield, I don’t think Omaha is an unreasonable speculation. But again, I’m not aware of any actual evidence for it.

In 1967, the FBI had a CI who stated that Fratto was the only LCN member in either Iowa or Nebraska (the CI I think may have been Fratto himself, as he gave info to the Feds in that period while he was dying from cancer). The same CI also identified Robert Matthews in Omaha as close to KC LCN members and acting as the personal representative for Nick Civella’s interests in Omaha, but emphasized that Matthews was not an LCN member as he wasn’t Italian. A 1960s memo also forwarded intel regarding Detroit LCN members to the Omaha FO, though I’m not sure what the context was for that.