Barney Bellomo

[Wiseguy]

My argument is that, on the whole, La Eme is larger and more powerful than the Genovese family. They control a much larger territory, likely generate more revenue, and they're not afraid to use violence.

What are you basing this on? Estimates of La Eme's size vary. One chart of the Mexican Mafia in California from 2011 showed 86 members but not all of them were validated. Have you done some sort of geographic measurement comparison between the areas the Mexican Mafia operates in within Southern California and where the Genovese family operates in the NY metro area? And where have you seen any financial estimates of their revenue?

[Newyorkempire]

Not sure it can be said that most mafia members are middle class. Most of the houses we have seen in the other post with all the pics look pretty expensive. Some real expensive

[nizarsoccer]

I mean based on the 2011 ILA bust, it seems like the Genovese are just down to extorting fellow union members. It's doubtful they are in any position to extort any terminal operators or shipping lines.

[Pogo The Clown]

Starting around 2008-2010, the Justice Department did reprioritize it's objectives. Transnational organized crime became the #1 focus, with the LCN dropping to #2, but it doesn't seem it was any single TOC group. Just TOC in general. Whoever gets put on their "TICOT" list have first priority and that is often changing. Again, when it comes to LCN, you're pretty much talking about the extended New York metro area at this point. And there aren't any Russian or Albanian criminal enterprises that have surpassed them there. But elsewhere in the country, that's another story.

Yeah but those designations are motivated by racial politics. By any metric LCN stopped being the top OC threat to the country by the late 70s/early 80s when the Colombian Cartels came on the scene. That LCN was still ranked #1 up to 2008-2010 is utterly ridiculous. No different than the Injustice Department labeling "White supremacists" the top domestic terrorism threat. It is political BS.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Not sure it can be said that most mafia members are middle class. Most of the houses we have seen in the other post with all the pics look pretty expensive. Some real expensive

That's what it seems. The idea that most are millionaires is as false as the idea that most are brokesters.

I mean based on the 2011 ILA bust, it seems like the Genovese are just down to extorting fellow union members. It's doubtful they are in any position to extort any terminal operators or shipping lines.

Like I said, it seems they are focusing on the union jobs. Pretty much down to Locals 1, 1235, 1478, and 1804-1 in New Jersey, as well as some key positions with the METRO and Fringe Benefits funds.

Yeah but those designations are motivated by racial politics. By any metric LCN stopped being the top OC threat to the country by the late 70s/early 80s when the Colombian Cartels came on the scene. That LCN was still ranked #1 up to 2008-2010 is utterly ridiculous. No different than the Injustice Department labeling "White supremacists" the top domestic terrorism threat. It is political BS.

I think the Mafia was clearly the top OC threat on a national basis for about a 50 year window (1930s through 1970s). I suppose an argument could be made that that position extended into the 1980's but, by the 1990's, half the families in the country were pretty much finished. Anyway, it seems the feds put so many resources over decades into the Mafia that they were slow switch their focus. Especially after they started having success.

I should say that, when you go back and read comments from threat assessments, hearings, etc. during the 1980's, the widespread conventional thinking is that the LCN was far and away still the top group. But there was one outlier I came across. An unnamed U.S. Strike Force attorney in 1984 commented that in most major cities the LCN was not a major problem but organized crime was. The only exceptions, he felt, were New York, Miami, Chicago, and Las Vegas. Elsewhere he thought the mob influence was at best minimal and didn't pose any significant problem for law enforcement. More recently, a read another former prosecutor who said that, if you were to look at the top OC threats in the U.S. in the 1970s, the Mafia would have headed the list. But today he thought it would barely crack the top 20.

[SonnyBlackstein]

This is a thread which has been repeated several times.

It all depends on what you define as power.
Who earns the most money? Cartels
Who has the most organized rackets? Bikie gangs.
Who has the capacity to exert the most violence? And in the criminal underworld, this card trumps all others as if you have the third, you can take the first two. And the answer to that is easy: Any of the groups I mentioned above OVER the Westside.
A sinaloa leader and Barney in a room. Barney end of day isn't go to say or do shit.
National President of the Hells could take a dump on Barney's lawn and he's not going to do jack. 3000 full patch + X'000 Hangers on plus X'000 Prospects plus X'00 feeder clubs vs what? 200 shooters for Barney?
Every group I mentioned in my first post can marshal factors of degrees more violence than Barney. And that is the ultimate card in the underworld, and puts Barney bottom of the list.

As lefty said, why wouldn't you want to be made, you've got an army behind you. We can do anything we want.
Times changed and those armies are now on the other team.

[aleksandrored]

One question, in New York is there a specific group that is the strongest?

[Wiseguy]

This is a thread which has been repeated several times.

It all depends on what you define as power.
Who earns the most money? Cartels
Who has the most organized rackets? Bikie gangs.
Who has the capacity to exert the most violence? And in the criminal underworld, this card trumps all others as if you have the third, you can take the first two. And the answer to that is easy: Any of the groups I mentioned above OVER the Westside.
A sinaloa leader and Barney in a room. Barney end of day isn't go to say or do shit.
National President of the Hells could take a dump on Barney's lawn and he's not going to do jack. 3000 full patch + X'000 Hangers on plus X'000 Prospects plus X'00 feeder clubs vs what? 200 shooters for Barney?
Every group I mentioned in my first post can marshal factors of degrees more violence than Barney. And that is the ultimate card in the underworld, and puts Barney bottom of the list.

As lefty said, why wouldn't you want to be made, you've got an army behind you. We can do anything we want.
Times changed and those armies are now on the other team.

Biker gangs the most organized rackets? Have you read the MC indictments in the U.S. over the years? Big club or small, the vast majority of case after case is retail drug trafficking, weapons violations, and violence (brawls and the like).

One question, in New York is there a specific group that is the strongest?

According to law enforcement, the NY metro area is the one area where the LCN is still the strongest.

[Dave65827]

TBH this convo has been done to death. Are cartels stronger nationally ? Hell ya and can’t be disputed. Is the Mafia still the “Main” OC group in NY ? Yes

Just saved 20 pages on this thread

IMO what puts even the modern day Mafia above other groups is the influence in “legitimate” industries and unions however declined they are.

[Amershire_Ed]

This is a thread which has been repeated several times.

A sinaloa leader and Barney in a room. Barney end of day isn't go to say or do shit.
National President of the Hells could take a dump on Barney's lawn and he's not going to do jack. 3000 full patch + X'000 Hangers on plus X'000 Prospects plus X'00 feeder clubs vs what? 200 shooters for Barney?
Every group I mentioned in my first post can marshal factors of degrees more violence than Barney. And that is the ultimate card in the underworld, and puts Barney bottom of the list.

As lefty said, why wouldn't you want to be made, you've got an army behind you. We can do anything we want.
Times changed and those armies are now on the other team.

All this might be true, but again, Barney is living an exponentially more comfortable life than 99% of the Sinaloa Cartel and any biker gang. And he’s under a fraction of the pressure from law enforcement that those guys are. Read about El Chapo’s last few years as a free man. It was a pretty miserable lifestyle. These groups wield more power than the westside because, in most cases, they outnumber them 100:1 (and their primary racket is drugs).

And also, the mob still holds a lot of weight with these groups. They’ve all seen The Godfather. They love that shit. I know he’s a moron but Gene Borello talked about his first time being on Rikers—which was *before* he was with Ronnie G or affiliated in any way whatsoever. But he said once the blacks and Latinos learned he was Italian, they just assumed he was connected (even tho he wasn’t) and gave him a lot more respect.

Barney also would most likely never put himself in a situation where he was in a room with a Sinaloa leader. Not because he’d be scared of the cartel but because that would just come with a million eyes of law enforcement.

[SonnyBlackstein]

TBH this convo has been done to death. Are cartels stronger nationally ? Hell ya and can’t be disputed. Is the Mafia still the “Main” OC group in NY ? Yes

Just saved 20 pages on this thread

This.

[SonnyBlackstein]

This is a thread which has been repeated several times.

A sinaloa leader and Barney in a room. Barney end of day isn't go to say or do shit.
National President of the Hells could take a dump on Barney's lawn and he's not going to do jack. 3000 full patch + X'000 Hangers on plus X'000 Prospects plus X'00 feeder clubs vs what? 200 shooters for Barney?
Every group I mentioned in my first post can marshal factors of degrees more violence than Barney. And that is the ultimate card in the underworld, and puts Barney bottom of the list.

As lefty said, why wouldn't you want to be made, you've got an army behind you. We can do anything we want.
Times changed and those armies are now on the other team.

All this might be true, but again, Barney is living an exponentially more comfortable life than 99% of the Sinaloa Cartel and any biker gang. And he’s under a fraction of the pressure from law enforcement that those guys are. Read about El Chapo’s last few years as a free man. It was a pretty miserable lifestyle. These groups wield more power than the westside because, in most cases, they outnumber them 100:1 (and their primary racket is drugs).

And also, the mob still holds a lot of weight with these groups. They’ve all seen The Godfather. They love that shit. I know he’s a moron but Gene Borello talked about his first time being on Rikers—which was *before* he was with Ronnie G or affiliated in any way whatsoever. But he said once the blacks and Latinos learned he was Italian, they just assumed he was connected (even tho he wasn’t) and gave him a lot more respect.

Barney also would most likely never put himself in a situation where he was in a room with a Sinaloa leader. Not because he’d be scared of the cartel but because that would just come with a million eyes of law enforcement.

The Barney in a room eg was simply to illustrate if push came to shove.
And the discussion wasn't who can commit crime and live a more luxurious lifestyle and get away with it, it was which is the most powerful criminal enterprise in the US.
I agree, I'd MUCH rather be a Capo with the Westside than a Blood Crip Sinaloa Biker ANYTHING (For several reasons, Pogo )

[Amershire_Ed]

This is a thread which has been repeated several times.

A sinaloa leader and Barney in a room. Barney end of day isn't go to say or do shit.
National President of the Hells could take a dump on Barney's lawn and he's not going to do jack. 3000 full patch + X'000 Hangers on plus X'000 Prospects plus X'00 feeder clubs vs what? 200 shooters for Barney?
Every group I mentioned in my first post can marshal factors of degrees more violence than Barney. And that is the ultimate card in the underworld, and puts Barney bottom of the list.

As lefty said, why wouldn't you want to be made, you've got an army behind you. We can do anything we want.
Times changed and those armies are now on the other team.

All this might be true, but again, Barney is living an exponentially more comfortable life than 99% of the Sinaloa Cartel and any biker gang. And he’s under a fraction of the pressure from law enforcement that those guys are. Read about El Chapo’s last few years as a free man. It was a pretty miserable lifestyle. These groups wield more power than the westside because, in most cases, they outnumber them 100:1 (and their primary racket is drugs).

And also, the mob still holds a lot of weight with these groups. They’ve all seen The Godfather. They love that shit. I know he’s a moron but Gene Borello talked about his first time being on Rikers—which was *before* he was with Ronnie G or affiliated in any way whatsoever. But he said once the blacks and Latinos learned he was Italian, they just assumed he was connected (even tho he wasn’t) and gave him a lot more respect.

Barney also would most likely never put himself in a situation where he was in a room with a Sinaloa leader. Not because he’d be scared of the cartel but because that would just come with a million eyes of law enforcement.

The Barney in a room eg was simply to illustrate if push came to shove.
And the discussion wasn't who can commit crime and live a more luxurious lifestyle and get away with it, it was which is the most powerful criminal enterprise in the US.
I agree, I'd MUCH rather be a Capo with the Westside than a Blood Crip Sinaloa Biker ANYTHING (For several reasons, Pogo )

Yeah that’s fair. Sometimes I feel like comparing these groups is like trying to judge who would win a fight…a tiger shark or a gorilla. They’ll literally never be in the same place where they would be forced to fight, so comparing them feels like a waste of energy.

Like there are definitely Calabrians working in the US laundering money and brokering drug shipments. And while Ndrangheta’s global wealth and influence is reportedly greater than any of the cartels, that doesn’t mean some sicarios couldn’t get the drop on some Calabrians and blow them to hell.

[Pmac2]

I look at it like this. Barney is probaly the most powerful WHITE criminal on the east coast. He has other white guys ages 18 to 100 under his control. There's crimes pale in comparison to gangs on the east coast or biker clubs. There more main stream. You can't even compare the crimes the mob does to the cartel or the west coast gangs because the mob is almost legit in alot of areas. They use there numbers for strength and connections.

[Newyorkempire]

The fact that they have become even middle class (by Wise guys assertion) from crime in the mafia's era of "decline" shows it is still a profitable and powerful organization even if only in the Northeast. Middle class income varies wildly especially in NYC. They are still making money. Some hand over fist in the millions and some not. Just like in any other company in the world. Theres bigger earners than others.