The "Associates" Thread

[Charlie]

- Not sure if it was just internet talk, but people on the boards used to say Joe Pesci was with the Gambino Family from his days in NJ. He was definitely connected to the old Gambino NJ crew.

If I'm not mistaken Pesci was always with Joe Denti and I'm talking as far back as the 1970's.

[B.]

Could be right. I've never seen the Gambino info substantiated.

[B.]

Here's what Pesci said when asked about his relationship with Denti in 1994:

A: It’s not true at all. My name does not appear on anything. Joe Denti was nice to me when we worked in the Bronx in a restaurant together. I think the gentleman in question has been crime-free for a long time. If he’s doing anything, I certainly don’t know about it. The company he’s affiliated with, Metropolitan Productions--they’re trying to produce pictures. He came up with a project I liked that I wanted to do. That may be the affiliation they were talking about. I don’t have any reason to get involved in any wrong-doing. And I don’t see anything wrong with helping someone who helped me who’s been a friend for long time.

[chin_gigante]

Didnt Burt Young ask Amuso to straighten him out as well

[B.]

That's what it says in D'Arco's book. Looks like Young may have been direct with Corallo and then Amuso if that's the case.

[chin_gigante]

Lines up with Jerry Blavat being on record with Bruno then Testa then Scarfo

[B.]

Yeah, I was going to bring Blavat up earlier. Local celebrity who wasn't powerful in an underworld sense but direct with the admin under multiple bosses and a very useful associate. His father was a Jewish gangster.

Sal Avena too. Son of a former boss, lawyer and confidant to multiple bosses, treated like an insider. He's another one who supposedly asked to be made.

[B.]

Another celebrity I'm curious about is Vincent Minnelli. A Colombo associate told the FBI Minnelli was a made member in the Colombos which we can discount, but he was Palermitan and his grandfather + great-uncle participated in the 1848 revolution (as did many mafiosi) so maybe there was a deeper connection that placed him "with" Profaci's Family.

If there's any truth to him being with the Colombos he'd be a very valuable associate to have regardless of his reputation.

[PolackTony]

Cross-posting this from one of the Chicago threads, as I think it’s a good example of the complexity of what could be considered an “mafia associate”, following B’s definition of anyone who is not a member but who can be represented within the mafia system. According to the Gentile brothers, their grandfather was basically with Vincenzo Benevento. In turn, their father was with Skippy Cerone. Neither seem to have been active criminal associates, and they weren’t part of any crew. They were guys from the neighborhood who had close personal connections to members, who were useful to the Outfit and did them favors and, in turn, received benefits in terms of protection and access to clout (the engine that makes Chicago turn, of course). As one of the sons says, their father had “lots of friends”, but he “wasn’t on one of those charts”. Many such cases as this with any LCN family, and these people formed the extended networks through which the mob exerted its influence within the community.

Has anyone ever checked out the Gentile brothers' book? I've seen it on Amazon, but haven't read it yet. I wasn't aware that these guys grew up in the Grand Ave Patch, so at least for that, I want to check it out. Looks like they have a story about their family coming under the protection of Vincenzo Benevento back in the day (which also goes back to the current "what is an associate?" thread). Worth listening to their interview here:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertai ... story.html

[B.]

It's like Gravano's story about his father's dress factory. He says his father wasn't in the life, but when union thugs bothered him he wasn't worried and immediately went to his compare "Zu Vito" (Sammy has implied they came from the same hometown) who cleared up the problem. Gerlando Gravano was "with" Zu Vito and technically an associate whose dress factory was protected by a made member. He was benefiting from this connection by avoiding union trouble. If Zu Vito had a relative who needed a job, not hard to imagine Gravano could assist with that.

I think Sammy's telling the truth that his father avoided the life but it shows how ingrained the mafia was among immigrants from mafia strongholds, where even a legitimate guy like Gerlando Gravano was on record with someone and could go to him. This isn't exceptional, it was the norm where they were from in Sicily and in the NYC neighborhoods they lived in.

On paper Gerlando Gravano was probably a Gambino associate (if Zu Vito was from Porto Empedocle and lived in Brooklyn he almost certainly was a Gambino) and his son and son-in-law both went on to be Gambino members, but it's not that simple and shows how mafia association is more nuanced than criminals kicking up money to a certain member.

[SB1825]

There’s a good section in Blood & Honor where Caramandi talks about associates. He says that he’d put guys on record with him either because they were useful, made money, or even if they just liked the guy and wanted to look out for him. That last one sounds a little too romanticized, as I imagine they’d expect favors from a guy like that. Caramandi basically said there’d be guys who would never commit a crime but they’d store weapons and shit like that in their house for mob guys. In turn I’d expect the mob guys would “look out” for them. I remember Caramandi also said it didn’t matter if a guy associated with a member if he wasn’t put on record with that member’s captain.

[TallGuy19]

Interesting story about Stuey Ungar, a professional card player who went on record with Genovese soldier Victor Romano:

https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/914/

[PolackTony]

Another celebrity I'm curious about is Vincent Minnelli. A Colombo associate told the FBI Minnelli was a made member in the Colombos which we can discount, but he was Palermitan and his grandfather + great-uncle participated in the 1848 revolution (as did many mafiosi) so maybe there was a deeper connection that placed him "with" Profaci's Family.

If there's any truth to him being with the Colombos he'd be a very valuable associate to have regardless of his reputation.

Another thing that could also possibly link him to Profaci is that Vincent Minnelli was born in Chicago, though I don’t see any reason to think that him or his father had any connections to the mafia there (you probably already know this, but his mother was not Italian).

[B.]

His great-uncle Domenico Minnelli was Vice-Chancellor of the Palermo Gran Corte Civile. If there's a relationship to the Profaci crowd I'd guess it goes back to Palermo.

The informant who mentioned Minnelli as a Profaci member was ID'd by Ed as Louis Ferrini.

[TallGuy19]

Former bookmaker talks about becoming an associate of the Outfit.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_HCzvo_s8NQ&t=3317s