Questions for Massino that Scott could ask..

[SonnyBlackstein]

I have difficulty believing anyone was ordered to open strip clubs

Why?
They're a fantastic business for the mob to be in. Hugely profitable and a great chance to wash money. Cash business.
Vinny Ocean was setting them up even after he rolled.

Is it the ordering part or the strip club part youre speculative of?

[jimmyb]

So do we know if he has a Massino interview yet?

I'm sorry to spoil the fun but seems like i should say something. If I'm not mistaken the source of this rumor is something i teased during our.podcast several weeks ago. I said "Burney is working on something big with a major underworld figure."

I never said it was lcn and i never said it was Massino. I didn't say it was i interview either. I just referred to a media project Scott is trying to put together. This would be original content and not just another podcast episode. The underworld person in question is definitely interested but making this happen will require some significant resources. That's the hang up but Scott is putting a lot of effort into securing such resources. So we'll see. Hopefully it happens.

[Uforeality]

So do we know if he has a Massino interview yet?

I'm sorry to spoil the fun but seems like i should say something. If I'm not mistaken the source of this rumor is something i teased during our.podcast several weeks ago. I said "Burney is working on something big with a major underworld figure."

I never said it was lcn and i never said it was Massino. I didn't say it was i interview either. I just referred to a media project Scott is trying to put together. This would be original content and not just another podcast episode. The underworld person in question is definitely interested but making this happen will require some significant resources. That's the hang up but Scott is putting a lot of effort into securing such resources. So we'll see. Hopefully it happens.

Well, touche. I was just excited, maybe like a few others. I mean, maybe we're looking at a Borello interview... lol... but you can't speculate without others doing the same. That's why we're here, on this forum board, to discuss a common interest

[SonnyBlackstein]

So this is all a complete big waste of time then. Awesome.
Thanks for jumping in at page 7 instead of 6 pages back Jimmy.

[B.]

"Scott has something big in the works" - Jimmy

"Scott is channeling Joe Bonanno's ghost to answer all of our questions" - Board

"I didn't say that" - Jimmy

"You lied to us you monster" - Board

[CabriniGreen]

Dom Cicale said Massino "ordered" Vito Rizzuto to open a strip club in Canada after the Sciascia murder. If there's any truth to this I question whether it was an "order" or just a mutual business interest, but it does bring to mind the Bonanno member opening a strip club in Chicago during the same period.

Be interesting if the Bonanno Family was consciously trying to open remote strip clubs in the 1990s/2000s but it doesn't make much sense.

Just speculation, but maybe there was more to these strip clubs than we might assume. Perhaps they were nodes for a narcotics distribution network, for example. I’ve wondered if that was part of the context for the still-mysterious Elmo Amarante thing.

Yeah if the Montreal thing is true it seems strange the Bonanno would set up strip clubs in Canada and Chicago during the same period unless there was some purpose. Cicale tried to give the impression Massino was testing Rizzuto's loyalty but if his general info is accurate I don't know how he'd know the motivation.

Antimafia recently said Massino was uncooperative with Canadian authorities so if it did happen I'm not sure what if anything he'd say about the Canadian angle. It'd be nice to know how they approached the Chicago club under Amarante since we can confirm that one. I have difficulty believing anyone was ordered to open strip clubs but if the intention was to facilitate prostitution or drugs maybe they wanted to stay away from the NY area. However I can't imagine Amarante went to Chicago without some existing connection.

The thing is... the Hells run the girls up there.... any prostitution would probably have to involve them, meaning you have to cut em in.

That whole thing with the strip club doesn't pass the smell test for me. Consider Montagnas moves...., for Massino, why not, ( he didn't ask) DEMAND the sportsbook? At least a piece of it... or put some of your guys in. The Construction payoffs? We see Montagna met with the Violis, partly I'm sure to shore up his narcotics contacts. An association with the Violis would have given him roughly equivalent abilities as Rizzuto in the narcotics world, as Rizzutos association with the Colluccios, after the Caruanas and Cuntreras lost power after about 1994, I would say.

I can't figure the angle. Opening up a club cost a lot of money. It's cheaper to open up a gambling spot. He could of just asked for the, whatever, 250k or more, whatever it cost to open the club as tribute.

[PolackTony]

Dom Cicale said Massino "ordered" Vito Rizzuto to open a strip club in Canada after the Sciascia murder. If there's any truth to this I question whether it was an "order" or just a mutual business interest, but it does bring to mind the Bonanno member opening a strip club in Chicago during the same period.

Be interesting if the Bonanno Family was consciously trying to open remote strip clubs in the 1990s/2000s but it doesn't make much sense.

Just speculation, but maybe there was more to these strip clubs than we might assume. Perhaps they were nodes for a narcotics distribution network, for example. I’ve wondered if that was part of the context for the still-mysterious Elmo Amarante thing.

Yeah if the Montreal thing is true it seems strange the Bonanno would set up strip clubs in Canada and Chicago during the same period unless there was some purpose. Cicale tried to give the impression Massino was testing Rizzuto's loyalty but if his general info is accurate I don't know how he'd know the motivation.

Antimafia recently said Massino was uncooperative with Canadian authorities so if it did happen I'm not sure what if anything he'd say about the Canadian angle. It'd be nice to know how they approached the Chicago club under Amarante since we can confirm that one. I have difficulty believing anyone was ordered to open strip clubs but if the intention was to facilitate prostitution or drugs maybe they wanted to stay away from the NY area. However I can't imagine Amarante went to Chicago without some existing connection.

The thing is... the Hells run the girls up there.... any prostitution would probably have to involve them, meaning you have to cut em in.

That whole thing with the strip club doesn't pass the smell test for me. Consider Montagnas moves...., for Massino, why not, ( he didn't ask) DEMAND the sportsbook? At least a piece of it... or put some of your guys in. The Construction payoffs? We see Montagna met with the Violis, partly I'm sure to shore up his narcotics contacts. An association with the Violis would have given him roughly equivalent abilities as Rizzuto in the narcotics world, as Rizzutos association with the Colluccios, after the Caruanas and Cuntreras lost power after about 1994, I would say.

I can't figure the angle. Opening up a club cost a lot of money. It's cheaper to open up a gambling spot. He could of just asked for the, whatever, 250k or more, whatever it cost to open the club as tribute.

Interesting that you bring up the HAs here. Amarante’s “Chicago” strip club wasn’t in the city, it was in Harvey. You and I know what that means, but others here probably don’t. Let’s say it’s not exactly a place that you’d expect some random wiseguy from NYC to pop up. Now, at least at the time that Amarante was operating there, Harvey was also the Chicagoland HQ for the Hells Angels.

[CabriniGreen]

I have difficulty believing anyone was ordered to open strip clubs

Why?
They're a fantastic business for the mob to be in. Hugely profitable and a great chance to wash money. Cash business.
Vinny Ocean was setting them up even after he rolled.

Is it the ordering part or the strip club part youre speculative of?

Imagine Montagna going up there and asking for a strip club. Not 25% of the Book, not all the contruction payoffs go to me. Not, let's meet with these Violi kids who have contacts direct in Colombia, and who have contacts on the Indian reservation for smuggling routes into Canada. Don't make any inroads into the street gangs, or the Toronto gambling houses. Or the Bikers. "Open me up a strip club".....?????

Why a strip club? Basciano goes up there and reactivated a pipeline, he's not concerned with some damn strip club. I also wonder about Basciano asking for a 100k tribute, AFTER he had to return 300k worth of drugs he couldn't figure out how to sell. They must have thought him retarded....lol

[CabriniGreen]

Dom Cicale said Massino "ordered" Vito Rizzuto to open a strip club in Canada after the Sciascia murder. If there's any truth to this I question whether it was an "order" or just a mutual business interest, but it does bring to mind the Bonanno member opening a strip club in Chicago during the same period.

Be interesting if the Bonanno Family was consciously trying to open remote strip clubs in the 1990s/2000s but it doesn't make much sense.

Just speculation, but maybe there was more to these strip clubs than we might assume. Perhaps they were nodes for a narcotics distribution network, for example. I’ve wondered if that was part of the context for the still-mysterious Elmo Amarante thing.

Yeah if the Montreal thing is true it seems strange the Bonanno would set up strip clubs in Canada and Chicago during the same period unless there was some purpose. Cicale tried to give the impression Massino was testing Rizzuto's loyalty but if his general info is accurate I don't know how he'd know the motivation.

Antimafia recently said Massino was uncooperative with Canadian authorities so if it did happen I'm not sure what if anything he'd say about the Canadian angle. It'd be nice to know how they approached the Chicago club under Amarante since we can confirm that one. I have difficulty believing anyone was ordered to open strip clubs but if the intention was to facilitate prostitution or drugs maybe they wanted to stay away from the NY area. However I can't imagine Amarante went to Chicago without some existing connection.

The thing is... the Hells run the girls up there.... any prostitution would probably have to involve them, meaning you have to cut em in.

That whole thing with the strip club doesn't pass the smell test for me. Consider Montagnas moves...., for Massino, why not, ( he didn't ask) DEMAND the sportsbook? At least a piece of it... or put some of your guys in. The Construction payoffs? We see Montagna met with the Violis, partly I'm sure to shore up his narcotics contacts. An association with the Violis would have given him roughly equivalent abilities as Rizzuto in the narcotics world, as Rizzutos association with the Colluccios, after the Caruanas and Cuntreras lost power after about 1994, I would say.

I can't figure the angle. Opening up a club cost a lot of money. It's cheaper to open up a gambling spot. He could of just asked for the, whatever, 250k or more, whatever it cost to open the club as tribute.

Interesting that you bring up the HAs here. Amarante’s “Chicago” strip club wasn’t in the city, it was in Harvey. You and I know what that means, but others here probably don’t. Let’s say it’s not exactly a place that you’d expect some random wiseguy from NYC to pop up. Now, at least at the time that Amarante was operating there, Harvey was also the Chicagoland HQ for the Hells Angels.

Damn!!! Good connection there... very interesting...

[B.]

Like I said earlier, I don't think anyone was "ordered" to open a strip club. If certain people invested in clubs that's a different arrangement. If Massino was involved in any of this I'm not sure he'd be setting up drug spots. Cicale said Basciano was trafficking drugs with Montreal behind Massino's back and Cantarella testified that Massino was worried about where Basciano made his money (implying drugs) and had Cantarella set Basciano up with some construction work to try and steer him away. Supports what Cicale said about Basciano doing it without Massino's knowledge.

If it's true Montagna met with the Violis/Luppinos he may have been looking for political support from the Buffalo Family in Ontario. Makes sense he'd contact them if he was speaking on behalf of the Bonanno Family. What came out of the investigation into Violi a few years later adds to this, Zummo and Morena being from the Caffe Giannini crowd like Montagna. Is there something out there about Montagna trying to traffick drugs with Ontario? I don't remember anything.

[dave]

Another question for him is what were his strategies for recruiting and rebuilding the family during the 90's? Did he see the turmoil going on in the other families as an advantage? What was his opinion/attitude towards the other families during this time?

[Geeleonetti]

Page 7 he says it’s probably not massino…yet people keep continuing as such. Why even make some ridiculous claim to get everyone excited only to be some bum like borello or a female gotti.