Thomas Carrube testimony notes (Cammarano trial)

[chin_gigante]

General rules and protocol

- Being on record is about a “regular civilian” getting the protection of an inducted member
- Tribute was paid at Christmas and every six months
- Every six months, Carrube would pay five to six hundred dollars that supposedly went to members who were in prison or their families
- Members would kick up at Christmas if they had a “street business”
- Carrube kicked up an envelope once at Christmas to Joseph Sabella
- There was $1,000 in the envelope and he handed it over at a Christmas party at Da Nico’s
- Carrube appeared unaware of the rule against bringing guns to meetings
- The Consigliere is “supposed to be” a lifetime position “but it’s not”

Background

- Carrube was 63 years old as of taking the stand (Mar 05, 2019)
- He was born in Brooklyn and the furthest he went in education was high school
- He went on record with the Bonanno Family when he was 18 or 19 years old
- He went on record because it “was just a thing to do from where you were from”
- Carrube was arrested in 1992 for enterprise corruption while working at the New York Times
- He cashed checks for ghost jobs and gave the money back to the foreman
- He cooperated in the case by giving information
- He pleaded guilty to perjury and was sentenced to five years’ probation
- Carrube owned Sharkey’s Square pizzeria at 1910 Hylan Boulevard on Staten Island
- He was in the pizzeria business for 25 years
- The pizzeria was in his wife’s name

Simone Esposito

- Prior to Carrube’s induction in the Family, Simone Esposito asked to use his pizzeria to hold a meeting of Bonanno members
- The meeting took place at about 8pm during business hours and Esposito asked him to cover the windows
- Because Carrube was not a member, he did not attend the meeting and instead stayed in the kitchen and then went outside
- Esposito, John Zancocchio, Joseph Cammarano, Joseph Grimaldi, Vito Grimaldi, Ronald Giallanzo, and some other guys who Carrube didn’t really know participated in the meeting
- Carrube went to Esposito for help when he started having problems with Peter Lovaglio
- Lovaglio had wanted Carrube and Gene Lombardo to go into business making frozen pizzas to be put in stores
- Lombardo, another Bonanno associate, was Carrube’s on and off partner in two or three different businesses and ran the pizzeria on Hylan Boulevard
- Carrube thought the plan was just “some crazy idea” and wasn’t interested in going into business with Lovaglio
- Lovaglio didn’t take the rejection well
- Bonanno member Arthur Tarzia reached out to Carrube and told him to leave the pizzeria
- Carrube went home and Tarzia came to see him
- Tarzia told Carrube that Lovaglio was talking about him and wanted to send people to the pizzeria to hit him with a bat
- Carrube checked the pizzeria’s security cameras using an app on his phone and saw Frankie (probably Pastore) at the restaurant asking the cashier for him
- Out of concern for his safety, Carrube reached out to Esposito
- Esposito warned Carrube that Lovaglio was very dangerous and that no-one could control him
- Esposito asked if Carrube wanted to be proposed so Lovaglio couldn’t touch him
- Esposito told Carrube to be careful and that he would need $10,000
- Carrube only gave Esposito $5,000

Inducted member

- Carrube was inducted into the Bonanno Family approximately five years prior to his testimony (c. 2014)
- The ceremony was held in Queens
- Carrube did not really want to be inducted and had never tried to become a member
- Esposito, Anthony Fasitta, and John Spirito Jr were present at the ceremony
- “I think [Spirito] was a Street Boss at the time”
- When Carrube was inducted, Michael Mancuso was the official Boss of the Family, and Thomas DiFiore was the Acting Boss
- Esposito was the Consigliere and assigned Carrube to Captain Louis Civello
- Shortly after his induction, Carrube found out Gene Lombardo was trying to sell the pizzeria out from under him for $50,000
- Carrube went to Esposito for advice and was told to protect his business
- Carrube met with Lombardo, who denied trying to sell the business
- Carrube met with Lombardo again a couple of days later to buy him out
- Lombardo owed him $97,000 from another pizzeria, so Carrube knocked $50,000 off the principal to cover what Lombardo was looking to sell the business for
- After Lombardo left, John Zancocchio came to see Carrube and told him he couldn’t do that
- Carrube didn’t know if Zancocchio meant stopping the sale of the pizzeria or kicking Lombardo out of the business
- Carrube told Zancocchio they should go see Esposito because he (Carrube) had been recently inducted but they had not been introduced to each other
- Carrube and Zancocchio went to a social club that Esposito hung out at
- Esposito and Zancocchio talked alone
- After the discussion, Zancocchio came back to Carrube, shook his hand, and wished him good luck with the business
- About five days later, George Tropiano told Carrube and Civello that they had to have another meeting over the pizzeria with Zancocchio and Joseph Cammarano
- At the time, Cammarano was Zancocchio’s Captain
- Civello and Carrube went to the meeting
- Lombardo could not attend because he was not a member
- Cammarano talked to Civello, then came over to Carrube, wished him luck, and left
- Carrube had a general feeling that Zancocchio didn’t like him because of the dispute over the pizzeria
- Ronnie Lamb was a personal friend of Carrube’s who owed money to Esposito
- Ronnie Lamb was not a member
- Ronnie Lamb would give his payments to Carrube, who would pass them on to Esposito
- Carrube stopped collecting money from Ronnie Lamb when Esposito got shelved
- After Civello, Carrube was assigned to George Tropiano
- Carrube believed Civello was his Captain for about two months and Tropiano was then his Captain for “five/six months”
- It should be noted these estimates were very rough guesses and Carrube could not recall the specific dates of his induction or the times he was assigned to different Captains
- One day, Tropiano asked Carrube to accompany him to a warehouse and said that they could make $10,000 from it
- Tropiano talked to a guy at the warehouse and told Carrube they had to see his father
- They then went to see a guy called Butchie at Sheepshead Bay
- Butchie was a member of an unspecified Family (presumably Genovese member Ernest Montevecchi)
- Carrube heard Tropiano was collecting $10,000 a year from a strip club on Long Island
- Carrube knew Civello had a friend who owned a strip club in Long Island, but he wasn’t sure if it was the same place
- After Tropiano, Carrube was assigned to Peter Lovaglio
- There was “a space between” or a “lull” between Carrube answering to Tropiano and being assigned to Lovaglio
- Lovaglio provided him a duffel bag of guns to hide in the backyard of the pizzeria
- When Lovaglio was shelved, Carrube was not immediately reassigned but ended up under Alphonse DiPilato about two and a half years prior to testifying (c. Sep 2016)
- Zancocchio, then the Consigliere, assigned Carrube to DiPilato
- Zancocchio introduced Carrube and DiPilato at Panera Bread on Arthur Kill Road in Staten Island

Cooperation

- Carrube began cooperating with the federal government “two years ago” (c. 2017)
- He started cooperating because an FBI agent approached him and told him he was in a lot of trouble
- He was tasked with recording conversations and reporting information
- He was not paid for his cooperation while on the street
- He met with representatives of the US Attorney’s Office six or eight times to work out his agreement
- He eventually entered a non-prosecution agreement with the government
- The crimes covered under the agreement were possession of firearms, sale of stolen merchandise, collecting disability, and participating in the affairs of the Bonanno Family
- Carrube fenced stolen razor blades, pocketbooks, and tools
- He collected $1,600 a month on disability while running the pizzeria
- He illegally owned two guns

The split

- There was a “rift” in the Family between one side headed by Cammarano and Zancocchio, and another headed by Vincent Badalamenti
- The Badalamenti side was loyal to Mancuso
- “Bosses were coming and going, and they were getting mad that they were going, and people were going on the shelf, and people were coming off the shelf, and there were all kinds of things”
- George Tropiano asked Carrube to go to Alphonse DiPilato’s pizzeria on Grand Street in Manhattan
- Carrube sat at DiPilato’s pizzeria with a gun as protection
- Carrube was friendly with Badalamenti and considered himself to be on that side of the split, even though DiPilato was aligned with Cammarano
- Badalamenti had been Consigliere of the Family for a while prior to Carrube’s induction
- After that, Badalamenti had no position in the Family
- Joseph Sabella was on the Cammarano side of the split
- Sabella came to the pizzeria on Hylan Boulevard and asked Carrube to go to Brooklyn to pass a message
- Sabella wanted Badalamenti to keep his (Sabella’s) name out of his mouth
- Carrube didn’t want to deliver the message but told Sabella he’d accompany him to Brooklyn
- Badalamenti was saying that Sabella came to see him during the split
- Badalamenti told Sabella if he switched sides he could remain a Captain
- Sabella was saying this wasn’t true
- Carrube spoke to Badalamenti and then DiPilato about this interaction with Sabella in two recorded conversations
- Badalamenti told Carrube that he had received messages from Mancuso in prison telling him to take the bull by the horns
- DiPilato told Carrube that he had spoken to Zancocchio about the incident
- Zancocchio told DiPilato he had the right to do what he wanted with his guys, but that he thought he made a mistake by sending Carrube to see Badalamenti alone
- DiPilato commented that he never knew of Badalamenti being “number 3”, referring to the Consigliere position
- DiPilato had also spoken to Cammarano, who told him if he wanted to keep Carrube, keep him, if not let him go to the Badalamenti side
- Carrube recorded a conversation with Civello, who told him the split was going to be straightened out “next week” (the date of the recording is not mentioned)
- Civello stated if Mancuso really sent the messages to Badalamenti, “they should have been brought to the proper people”, referring to the individuals in charge
- According to Civello, “in the beginning” Zancocchio wanted everyone to stay away from him so he could avoid the heat
- Civello said, “[Zancocchio] says, well, we don’t need to go to him [Badalamenti] either”
- Civello told Carrube that “they voted” Cammarano in as Acting Boss and Mancuso said it was okay
- Civello believed that Sabella would stay in Myrtle Beach and send Arthur Tarzia “on all the missions”
- Tarzia was Sabella’s Acting Captain
- On Sep 02, 2017, Carrube recorded a conversation at his pizzeria with Civello and Tarzia
- Tarzia stated, “The guy [Cammarano] is a fucking great fucking guy. When that guy [Mancuso] comes home, I don’t expect not one to make a move”
- Tarzia identified Zancocchio as the “number 3”, which Carrube took to mean Consigliere
- On Sep 23, 2017, Carrube recorded Civello talking about an election to put Cammarano in as official Boss
- Civello said, “So that makes this guy [Mancuso] no longer the Boss. They voted Joe in. Joe’s the official Boss”
- Civello stated, “These guys got – their names never came on the list. Nobody ever saw their names. So if they didn’t make a list for you”, and Carrube replied that his name was on the list
- Civello told Carrube that all the Captains who sided with Badalamenti were being taken down
- On Sep 29, 2017, Carrube recorded Zancocchio at the Bella Mama restaurant in Staten Island
- Carrube went to Bella Mama approximately five times
- He took his family there for dinner once, and on other occasions he would drop by on Fridays because “everybody” (other members) was there
- Tarzia had recommended Carrube go to Bella Mama because he didn’t usually go there and it would be good to show his face
- Zancocchio considered Bella Mama a place where he could “hang his hat”
- Zancocchio took a salary and the restaurant paid for his car
- Carrube told Zancocchio, “I just wanted to come see you and see you. You need me for anything, I’m here. You all know that”, and that if he was needed, he’d be there in three seconds
- Zancocchio replied “I know, but there’s nothing here […] You’re fine. Do what you’re doing”
- On Jan 06, 2018, Carrube recorded a conversation with Badalamenti
- Badalamenti told Carrube that “they” didn’t trust him (Carrube) and thought he was wearing a wire
- Carrube believed Badalamenti was referring to Sabella and Zancocchio
- Badalamenti recalled that Tarzia had been to see him in Brooklyn because he wanted to line up with that side of the split
- Later, however, Tarzia had a conversation with Zancocchio and changed his mind
- Badalamenti told Carrube, “Don’t believe in me. Believe in Mikey”
- Zancocchio wanted Badalamenti to come and meet with Cammarano and bring his side of the split back into the fold
- On Dec 27, 2018, Carrube told the government about a rumour on the street that Badalamenti had banished Cammarano and Zancocchio for life
- A “Dennis” who was friends with Badalamenti had told Carrube about the banishment

Misc.

- Carrube knew Anthony Sclafani to be a member but did not know his position
- Members would refer to Mancuso by touching their noses
- Members would run their hand over their hair to refer to Cammarano
- Carrube went to Danbury federal prison to visit Bonanno member Peter Calabrese but didn’t pass any messages back and forth and only went as a friend
- Frank Camuso told Carrube that he threw Stephen Sabella out of a club because he was dealing drugs
- Esposito’s shelving was unrelated to the split

[chin_gigante]

Thanks to thekiduknow for providing me with day 1 of Carrube’s testimony. I’ve uploaded the transcripts to the FBI files section here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=9182

Some thoughts:

While Carrube could only estimate when he was inducted, a Nov 15, 2018 letter from the prosecution to the Court states that it took place in approximately 2013:

Esposito extorted an individual out of $5,000 in exchange for inducting that individual into the Bonanno Family, which Esposito told the individual was the only way to protect him from being extorted by other members of LCN, including CW-1 [Lovaglio].

2013 would also generally make more sense considering Carrube identified DiFiore as the Acting Boss at the time of his induction, and he was arrested and held without bail very early in 2014.

On the note about the induction, it brings me back to John Spirito Jr, who has now been identified as holding every acting administration position you can think of. Carrube has him as “Street Boss” under DiFiore, Lovaglio identified him as “Acting Consigliere for the day” under Palazzolo, and John Pennisi described him as the Acting Underboss before he got shelved. Regardless of the disagreement when it comes to the exact position, we have him firmly identified as filling some acting admin slot by 2013, which is quite noteworthy considering he was only in his early 30s at the time (even though he lied his way into the role). There are however some other things to take into consideration when looking at Spirito’s position.

First, Lovaglio was in prison for his violation from 2013 to 2014, so he appears to have missed a large chunk of time when Spirito and Esposito were in their hey day at the top of the Family (which could also explain how he couldn’t recall on the stand that Esposito was the Consigliere). When describing how Spirito introduced himself as “Acting Consigliere for the day” at Tommy Valenti’s induction ceremony, Lovaglio said he thought it was a “joke”. However, I’m not sure whether he meant he thought Spirito was literally joking or if Lovaglio was giving his own opinion that it was ludicrous to appoint an Acting Consigliere for one day. The second thing is that Carrube seems a little unsure of himself when identifying Spirito as the Street Boss. He says “I think” rather than making a definitive statement. When it comes to Pennisi, he never met or was formally introduced to Spirito, so his information has to be second-hand and it’s also filtered from one Family to another. However, we do have this significant gap from 2007 to 2015 where we have no word on the Underboss position. Before Cammarano was given the position in 2015, the last official Underboss we know of was Sal Vitale. Then we had Cammarano Sr (acting), Mancuso (acting), Santora (acting), then nothing for eight years. So Spirito assuming the Acting Underboss position is certainly a strong possibility considering it was vacant to the best of our knowledge.

Carrube describing Spirito as “a Street Boss” also raises the possibility of him being on the Panel running the Family. There is precedent of Panel/ Committee members being referred to as “a Boss” (as opposed to “the Boss”) in indictments and such (e.g., Matthew Ianniello, Daniel Marino). There’s also quite an extensive history of specifically Bonanno Panel members being incorrectly ascribed acting administration positions (e.g., Vitale in the late 1980s/ early 1990s; Graziano and Cantarella in the late 1990s/ early 2000s). It would also go towards making things a little less convoluted during that early 2010s timeframe. If we were to look at Carrube’s induction in c. 2013, he identifies Mancuso as the official Boss, DiFiore as the Acting Boss, and Esposito as the Consigliere. We also know however that Vincent Asaro was a Captain without a crew on a Panel with DiFiore. Then there’s Lovaglio’s testimony that he found out Anthony Rabito was the Consigliere after Badalamenti went to prison, his recollection that Esposito may have been acting and the whole “title” vs “position” thing. So the administration suddenly looks like this:

Michael Mancuso (Boss) IP
Thomas DiFiore (Acting Boss/ Panel)
John Spirito (Street Boss/ Acting Underboss?)
Anthony Rabito/ Simone Esposito (Consigliere?) [official/ acting/ “title”/ “position”?]
Vincent Asaro (Panel)

It’s quite a mess considering we’re getting our information from three member sources. While on this messy Consigliere situation, this has also potentially shed some more light on the importance the position holds in the Bonanno Family. There seems to be some significance to the Consigliere conducting ceremonies and assigning members to crews. It was significant enough for Spirito to assume the Acting Consigliere position (even jokingly) just for the Tommy Valenti’s ceremony. Esposito assigned Carrube to Civello, and Zancocchio later assigned him to DiPilato. Lovaglio also described Zancocchio as the one running things on the street by 2016.

I also have some thoughts about Civello and Tropiano. It seems to me likely now that Tropiano succeeded Civello as Captain of his crew, but I’m not sure if it was in an official or an acting capacity. Lovaglio identified Tropiano as acting for Civello and later as an official Captain at the time of the March 2015 election. However, in the Nov 2018 letter I discussed earlier in this post, the prosecution only identifies Tropiano as having briefly served as an Acting Captain. It should also be noted though that the letter is not definitive as it contains no reference to Cammarano as holding the official Underboss position. Either way, it seems the crew was either partially or entirely folded into the Lovaglio crew shortly after. Lovaglio never explicitly identified Civello as a member of his crew, but it’s possible he got folded in as well considering Carrube and Civello seemed to be regularly meeting even past Lovaglio and into DiPilato’s time as Captain.

The identification of Zancocchio as a member of Cammarano’s crew could also hint at succession there. Zancocchio is an Acting Captain by March 2015 and soon afterwards moves up to official Captain, Panel member, and Consigliere. It’s possible he was acting for Cammarano, then briefly took over the crew officially. Raises the question of what happened to the crew after Zancocchio was upped to Consigliere.

The final thing that caught my eye was the information of Badalamenti “banishing” Cammarano and Zancocchio in December 2018. When Capeci reported on Cammarano, Zancocchio, and the Grimaldis being shelved one of the reasons that was brought up was Mancuso being unhappy with the “musical consiglieri” defense. However, this seems to be completely implausible considering Carrube passed this information to the government about two months before the trial even began. It’s always seemed much more likely to me anyway that Mancuso would have shelved them over the Galante-esque coup as opposed to just being upset that Joseph Meringolo implied he couldn’t pick his admin properly.

[thekiduknow]

Great breakdown Chin, you're doing great work clearing up this confusing era.

- Civello told Carrube that “they voted” Cammarano in as Acting Boss and Mancuso said it was okay

- On Sep 23, 2017, Carrube recorded Civello talking about an election to put Cammarano in as official Boss
- Civello said, “So that makes this guy [Mancuso] no longer the Boss. They voted Joe in. Joe’s the official Boss”

Am I reading this right, that it sounds like he's referring to two separate elections for Cammarano?

There's the March 2015 one where he was voted as Actin Boss, but it sounds like Civello is talking about another one where Mancuso was replaced.

[Tonyd621]

Simone Esposito got shelved for stealing $20K from the family treasury according to lcnbios. If you need it and it's for the family why can't you use it? Unless he's on drugs, debts and such

[chin_gigante]

Great breakdown Chin, you're doing great work clearing up this confusing era.

- Civello told Carrube that “they voted” Cammarano in as Acting Boss and Mancuso said it was okay

- On Sep 23, 2017, Carrube recorded Civello talking about an election to put Cammarano in as official Boss
- Civello said, “So that makes this guy [Mancuso] no longer the Boss. They voted Joe in. Joe’s the official Boss”

Am I reading this right, that it sounds like he's referring to two separate elections for Cammarano?

There's the March 2015 one where he was voted as Actin Boss, but it sounds like Civello is talking about another one where Mancuso was replaced.

Yeah, the March 2015 election put in Cammarano as Acting Boss. Then there is the September 2017 one which seemed to unsuccessfully put him in as official.

[Pogo The Clown]

Great breakdown. The Bonannos were a big cluster during this period with the constant shifting of ranks and shuffling around of members. Surprising that Vincent Badalamenti was not indicted in the big bust considering all the tapes he is on.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Chin. You the man.

Do we have pictures of: Joseph Grimaldi, Arthur Tarzia, Frank Pastore, Alphonse DiPilato?

[chin_gigante]

dipilato-alphonse.jpeg

Alphonse DiPilato

tarzia-arthur.jpeg

Arthur Tarzia

Screenshot 2022-05-31 at 22.11.07.png

Frank Pastore

[SonnyBlackstein]

Wow. Chin. Amazing. Never seen Pastor or DiPilato before.

Cheers.

Great stuff chin.

[SonnyBlackstein]

DiPilato is Bruno's nephew?

[Shellackhead]

Great write up, I love these.

[B.]

Good observation on there mainly being acting underbosses. However when DiFiore was identified as the acting boss, in some places he was also ID'd as the underboss. It's mentioned in this article but I don't know the origin of the info: https://abc7.com/archive/9404377/

I remember it because Cammarano was also described as underboss and acting boss.

DiPilato moved full-time to Arizona last year so curious what became of his position. He was loyal to Cammarano so he may have been among the demotions, though we know captains can live elsewhere and keep their crew.

[TSNYC]

This is great. Thanks

[B.]

For the consigliere having a ceremonial role at inductions, Vital also testified the consigliere was supposed to be the one who announces the candidate for boss during election, which he said Spero did. Thread here: viewtopic.php?p=151331#p151331

Be curious if the consigliere did this in the Cammarano election(s).

Carrube's info about kicking up also fits other sources, where the demands were mainly Christmas tribute and the legal "war chest". It sounds like they were collecting the war chest money every six months during his time instead of monthly like others have said but I believe the amount matches.

In contrast, the Gambino Family asked for 10% of earnings but that may have just applied to operations that directly used the Gambino Family's influence, not sure. I know 10% of construction earnings went up the chain.

[SonnyBlackstein]

DiPilato moved full-time to Arizona last year so curious what became of his position. He was loyal to Cammarano so he may have been among the demotions, though we know captains can live elsewhere and keep their crew.

Source?