My memory is hazzy but I believe that Sam DeCavalcante also used the term CaporegimA on those tapes from 1964-65.
Pogo
Caporegime vs. Capodecina
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Evidence from listening devices and/or informants suggests use of the terms Caporegima and La Cosa Nostra by organized crime members predates Valachi. But I also think the FBI helped to popularize the terms in crime families that never used them in past.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
This is making me want to take a deeper look at the titles... please keep in mind a lot of what's below is coming from an East Coast-centric place. I don't know enough about the other US families to comment on their terms.
Boss
"Boss" has been the universal English word for the top man going back to the early days in the US regardless of whether someone was knowledgeable of the inner-workings of Cosa Nostra or just saw these guys as "street gangs". It's simple and easy to understand for anyone.
Originally it was "capo" or "capomafia", which means head or leader. I'm not sure when this fell out of favor but this is the Sicilian term for mafia boss and the early members in the US used it. Post-1930s you don't see it much at all in the US and maybe that's because it sounded too much like "capodecina" and those sorts of nuances were too hard for American-born members to understand. Who knows.
"Rappresentante" shows up constantly in 1960s wiretaps and it seems to have replaced "capo" as the Italianized way of saying "boss". Go forward a couple of decades to the 1980s and you don't see this used at all to my knowledge. What is interesting to me about "rappresenante" is that it means the boss is a "representative" of his family. It's a political position. Usually the boss is thought of as a dictator or is sugarcoated as a paternal figure, but in theory what they are supposed to be is a representative who will look after the membership's interests. That is how Nino Calderone described it in Sicily as well. In reality we know this is rarely the case.
Then there is Joe Bonanno's use of "father". First of all, Joe Bonanno did not use terms like "father" and "group leader" when he was talking to his peers, I am sure of that. He was a diehard Sicilian who would have used Italian terminology and the book terms were used so he could be easily understood. It's easy to see how he took "group leader" from "capodecina", but I'd be curious what word he used instead of "father" in Italian. Maybe "capo"? I doubt he used "padre" or "padrino".
Underboss
This one is simple. "Underboss" comes from "sottocapo", which means "under the head". With "capo" becoming Americanized as "boss", it's pretty cut and dry. Are there any other terms for this position? I can't think of any offhand... no matter how many words have been used to describe the boss, this one stays the same, though it's sometimes hidden in euphemisms like "the #2 guy".
Consigliere
The one term that has stayed consistently Italian from the beginning. People sometimes have the wrong impression of what a consigliere's duties actually were (no doubt the position has changed into a loose #3 role in the family, but that wasn't how it used to be), but the word has been consistent. Though it's sometimes Americanized to "counselor", people just love this word too damn much to call it anything else (though few can pronounce it properly).
Captain
This has been covered in this topic earlier, so I won't rehash my questions, but we've seen all of these terms used "officially":
-Capodecina (head of ten)
-Caporegime/caporegima (head of... a regime)
-Capo (shortening of capodecina / caporegime, came into use after 'capo' stopped being used as 'boss')
-Captain (sounds like capo phonetically and is the English word of choice used within the organization)
-Lieutenant (Valachi and outsiders say this, but I don't think this has ever been used officially within the organization)
-Skipper (taken from captain, used informally)
-Group Leader (Joe B's Americanization of capodecina, used by his son as well)
- Some more, but it's unimportant
Soldier
"Soldier" is the universal Americanized word used both inside the organization and outside... it's also the most blatant paramilitary term used in the organization and is fitting as these men are responsible for participating in more hands-on activities. This comes from "soldato" and "soldati". I'd be curious if "soldati" was ever used to describe membership in Sicily or in the US pre-1930s.
"Man of Honor" comes from "uomo d'onore", which is the old Sicilian term for members. Joe Bonanno and Nino Calderone both used this in their book titles and it comes up repeatedly when studying the Sicilian roots of the organization. Seems to have lost its popularity in the US during the first half of the 20th century.
"Picciotto", which means young man, is one that seems to go back to Sicily as well. There is a history of referring to associates as "kids" regardless of their age, so this is probably one reason why "picciotto" is used to describe soldiers -- they are "young" in the pecking order of the organization. This is used by Magaddino to describe members in the 1960s, not sure if it was used much after that in the US.
Then you have "button man" and "made man". There seem to be different viewpoints on "button" -- in the Godfather Willie Cicci says it comes from "pushing the button on a guy" who asked (i.e. committing a murder), but I've never seen a real life explanation for where this came from. The Scarfo crew would rub their fingers together indicating a literal button or badge and you usually hear this all over the US referred to as "got his button" or "got his badge".
"Made" is interesting... would seem to refer to the literal induction process. They "made" him into a member. "Made" is sometimes used to refer to a promotion too, as on wiretaps people will refer to a guy being "made" but are referring to promotion to captain or boss. I wonder when this came into use?
Associate
Did the traditional Sicilian organization ever actually refer to anyone as an "associato"? Associate sounds like a purely criminal term, i.e. "criminal associates". I have a hard time seeing a traditional mafioso referring to people in his hometown as "associati" but what do I know? My guess is that the whole "associate" system in the US is radically different than whatever it was in Sicily. I don't doubt that they had a system with similar guidelines, I just have to believe it was much different and had different terminology. There was probably a greater emphasis on being "with" someone rather than calling them a particular word.
Anyway....
Boss
"Boss" has been the universal English word for the top man going back to the early days in the US regardless of whether someone was knowledgeable of the inner-workings of Cosa Nostra or just saw these guys as "street gangs". It's simple and easy to understand for anyone.
Originally it was "capo" or "capomafia", which means head or leader. I'm not sure when this fell out of favor but this is the Sicilian term for mafia boss and the early members in the US used it. Post-1930s you don't see it much at all in the US and maybe that's because it sounded too much like "capodecina" and those sorts of nuances were too hard for American-born members to understand. Who knows.
"Rappresentante" shows up constantly in 1960s wiretaps and it seems to have replaced "capo" as the Italianized way of saying "boss". Go forward a couple of decades to the 1980s and you don't see this used at all to my knowledge. What is interesting to me about "rappresenante" is that it means the boss is a "representative" of his family. It's a political position. Usually the boss is thought of as a dictator or is sugarcoated as a paternal figure, but in theory what they are supposed to be is a representative who will look after the membership's interests. That is how Nino Calderone described it in Sicily as well. In reality we know this is rarely the case.
Then there is Joe Bonanno's use of "father". First of all, Joe Bonanno did not use terms like "father" and "group leader" when he was talking to his peers, I am sure of that. He was a diehard Sicilian who would have used Italian terminology and the book terms were used so he could be easily understood. It's easy to see how he took "group leader" from "capodecina", but I'd be curious what word he used instead of "father" in Italian. Maybe "capo"? I doubt he used "padre" or "padrino".
Underboss
This one is simple. "Underboss" comes from "sottocapo", which means "under the head". With "capo" becoming Americanized as "boss", it's pretty cut and dry. Are there any other terms for this position? I can't think of any offhand... no matter how many words have been used to describe the boss, this one stays the same, though it's sometimes hidden in euphemisms like "the #2 guy".
Consigliere
The one term that has stayed consistently Italian from the beginning. People sometimes have the wrong impression of what a consigliere's duties actually were (no doubt the position has changed into a loose #3 role in the family, but that wasn't how it used to be), but the word has been consistent. Though it's sometimes Americanized to "counselor", people just love this word too damn much to call it anything else (though few can pronounce it properly).
Captain
This has been covered in this topic earlier, so I won't rehash my questions, but we've seen all of these terms used "officially":
-Capodecina (head of ten)
-Caporegime/caporegima (head of... a regime)
-Capo (shortening of capodecina / caporegime, came into use after 'capo' stopped being used as 'boss')
-Captain (sounds like capo phonetically and is the English word of choice used within the organization)
-Lieutenant (Valachi and outsiders say this, but I don't think this has ever been used officially within the organization)
-Skipper (taken from captain, used informally)
-Group Leader (Joe B's Americanization of capodecina, used by his son as well)
- Some more, but it's unimportant
Soldier
"Soldier" is the universal Americanized word used both inside the organization and outside... it's also the most blatant paramilitary term used in the organization and is fitting as these men are responsible for participating in more hands-on activities. This comes from "soldato" and "soldati". I'd be curious if "soldati" was ever used to describe membership in Sicily or in the US pre-1930s.
"Man of Honor" comes from "uomo d'onore", which is the old Sicilian term for members. Joe Bonanno and Nino Calderone both used this in their book titles and it comes up repeatedly when studying the Sicilian roots of the organization. Seems to have lost its popularity in the US during the first half of the 20th century.
"Picciotto", which means young man, is one that seems to go back to Sicily as well. There is a history of referring to associates as "kids" regardless of their age, so this is probably one reason why "picciotto" is used to describe soldiers -- they are "young" in the pecking order of the organization. This is used by Magaddino to describe members in the 1960s, not sure if it was used much after that in the US.
Then you have "button man" and "made man". There seem to be different viewpoints on "button" -- in the Godfather Willie Cicci says it comes from "pushing the button on a guy" who asked (i.e. committing a murder), but I've never seen a real life explanation for where this came from. The Scarfo crew would rub their fingers together indicating a literal button or badge and you usually hear this all over the US referred to as "got his button" or "got his badge".
"Made" is interesting... would seem to refer to the literal induction process. They "made" him into a member. "Made" is sometimes used to refer to a promotion too, as on wiretaps people will refer to a guy being "made" but are referring to promotion to captain or boss. I wonder when this came into use?
Associate
Did the traditional Sicilian organization ever actually refer to anyone as an "associato"? Associate sounds like a purely criminal term, i.e. "criminal associates". I have a hard time seeing a traditional mafioso referring to people in his hometown as "associati" but what do I know? My guess is that the whole "associate" system in the US is radically different than whatever it was in Sicily. I don't doubt that they had a system with similar guidelines, I just have to believe it was much different and had different terminology. There was probably a greater emphasis on being "with" someone rather than calling them a particular word.
Anyway....
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Good summary!
Gentile used Capomafia, Capofamiglia, Rappresentante, he goes back to 1904 but starting writing in the 50's. Sangiorgi used "sostituto" to describe the underboss in each Palermo mafia family, this was in 1897.
Kinda odd that sottocapo got americanized to underboss but consigliere stuck as is.
Acting Boss as a position rather than a function of the underboss seems to be a modern rendition. The earlier sources point to the underboss being on the side, ready to stand in for the boss in times of need, it wasn't originally intended to be a buffer position but eventually became that. Probably a necessary response to a refocused law enforcement. It makes sense to not put all your eggs in one basket, especially after 1960.
Gentile used Capomafia, Capofamiglia, Rappresentante, he goes back to 1904 but starting writing in the 50's. Sangiorgi used "sostituto" to describe the underboss in each Palermo mafia family, this was in 1897.
Kinda odd that sottocapo got americanized to underboss but consigliere stuck as is.
Acting Boss as a position rather than a function of the underboss seems to be a modern rendition. The earlier sources point to the underboss being on the side, ready to stand in for the boss in times of need, it wasn't originally intended to be a buffer position but eventually became that. Probably a necessary response to a refocused law enforcement. It makes sense to not put all your eggs in one basket, especially after 1960.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
That's right about "sostituto". Wasn't Traina described as "sostituto" to D'Aquila? It makes sense, not only in the sense of representing or standing in as the boss when needed, but also in the role of the underboss as the "street boss".Chris Christie wrote:Good summary!
Gentile used Capomafia, Capofamiglia, Rappresentante, he goes back to 1904 but starting writing in the 50's. Sangiorgi used "sostituto" to describe the underboss in each Palermo mafia family, this was in 1897.
Kinda odd that sottocapo got americanized to underboss but consigliere stuck as is.
Acting Boss as a position rather than a function of the underboss seems to be a modern rendition. The earlier sources point to the underboss being on the side, ready to stand in for the boss in times of need, it wasn't originally intended to be a buffer position but eventually became that. Probably a necessary response to a refocused law enforcement. It makes sense to not put all your eggs in one basket, especially after 1960.
You have to wonder if the development of positions like underboss, consigliere, captain, etc. came about in a similar way to how we view ruling panels now.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
THAT IS RIGHTtoto wrote:brugad is from borgata. like some italian-americans say mozarel for mozzarella. they didn't hear it correctly and then messed the pronunciation more and then it becomes its own word.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Remember, an fbi agent writes and types this info up,B. wrote:I don't think Valachi coined "caporegime". Does he use it at all in the book or in his testimony? I can't remember it, though I remember him using terms like "lieutenant", though maybe he was just trying to explain it in terms the average American would understand. He also throws the term "boss" around loosely a couple of times from what I remember. "Caporegime/caporegima" definitely appears independent of Valachi in FBI reports from before or around the same time Valachi began cooperating, though. Scarpa's early reports are filled with "caporegima".Chris Christie wrote: In terms of Caporegime. Valachi was the first one to coin that term. It then spread like wildfire, just like this "thing of ours" got morphed into La Cosa Nostra as an official name. The Mafia didn't advertise itself as Cosa Nostra until after the 1980's. There's no evidence of the term being used before it got popular. Members born in the 40's and 50's grew up watching the news heard of La Cosa Nostra applied to the neighborhood gangsters and that added to their mystique.
As for Cosa Nostra... you're 100% right that "La Cosa Nostra" was never used by the mob itself until the FBI and media influenced the newer generations of guys (who barely understood Italian) to start saying it. The same can't be said for "Cosa Nostra" without the "La", though. Rocco Scafidi's info says that when he was inducted around 1950 he was told by his superiors that the organization was "mafia", then after he was shelved and reinstated in 1961, they told him it was called "Cosa Nostra" now. On the phone taps where Scafidi and Frank Monte are talking, they also refer to it as Cosa Nostra. Valachi also claimed it was called Cosa Nostra.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
correct, also soldier ,,is actually amico nostri
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Gentile as a soldier claimed to be a sostituto for Mangano's interest in the 1930's. He was either lying or it was an informal "watch my interests in this area" designated person depending on the circumstances. Gentile was never asked to attend general assembly meetings yet Traina did. Obviously he had a higher status. But what exactly has never been verified. The best we can say is that Traina was "probably" underboss.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Interesting. Do you have any more info on that?B. wrote:As for Cosa Nostra... you're 100% right that "La Cosa Nostra" was never used by the mob itself until the FBI and media influenced the newer generations of guys (who barely understood Italian) to start saying it. The same can't be said for "Cosa Nostra" without the "La", though. Rocco Scafidi's info says that when he was inducted around 1950 he was told by his superiors that the organization was "mafia", then after he was shelved and reinstated in 1961, they told him it was called "Cosa Nostra" now. On the phone taps where Scafidi and Frank Monte are talking, they also refer to it as Cosa Nostra. Valachi also claimed it was called Cosa Nostra.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... elPageId=6Chris Christie wrote:Interesting. Do you have any more info on that?B. wrote:As for Cosa Nostra... you're 100% right that "La Cosa Nostra" was never used by the mob itself until the FBI and media influenced the newer generations of guys (who barely understood Italian) to start saying it. The same can't be said for "Cosa Nostra" without the "La", though. Rocco Scafidi's info says that when he was inducted around 1950 he was told by his superiors that the organization was "mafia", then after he was shelved and reinstated in 1961, they told him it was called "Cosa Nostra" now. On the phone taps where Scafidi and Frank Monte are talking, they also refer to it as Cosa Nostra. Valachi also claimed it was called Cosa Nostra.
There is one of the docs that mentions it. On that it says "La Cosa Nostra", but that may have been the influence of the transcriber, i.e. Scafidi said "Cosa Nostra" and the agent added "La" in front. You could argue that he was just telling the agents what they wanted to hear or they changed his info to suit their needs, but I'm not so sure.
I don't have time to find it right now but there is definitely another transcript on the MF site where Monte and Scafidi refer to it simply as "Cosa Nostra".
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Yep, forgot that one. That's one of the universal ways they describe members of any rank, plus the Americanized "friend". Both of these are still in use.bronx wrote:correct, also soldier ,,is actually amico nostri
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Dwalin2014
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Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
In an Italian book I have about the mafia in the province of Agrigento, the informant Pasquale Salemi uses the term "avvicinato" (literally translated as "situated nearby" or "brought nearby"; "vicino" means "near").B. wrote: Associate
Did the traditional Sicilian organization ever actually refer to anyone as an "associato"? Associate sounds like a purely criminal term, i.e. "criminal associates". I have a hard time seeing a traditional mafioso referring to people in his hometown as "associati" but what do I know? My guess is that the whole "associate" system in the US is radically different than whatever it was in Sicily. I don't doubt that they had a system with similar guidelines, I just have to believe it was much different and had different terminology. There was probably a greater emphasis on being "with" someone rather than calling them a particular word.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Associaties in our vernacular. Members like Gentile used "associates" in a broad sense: New York City had over 2000 associated with the mafia.Dwalin2014 wrote:In an Italian book I have about the mafia in the province of Agrigento, the informant Pasquale Salemi uses the term "avvicinato" (literally translated as "situated nearby" or "brought nearby"; "vicino" means "near").B. wrote: Associate
Did the traditional Sicilian organization ever actually refer to anyone as an "associato"? Associate sounds like a purely criminal term, i.e. "criminal associates". I have a hard time seeing a traditional mafioso referring to people in his hometown as "associati" but what do I know? My guess is that the whole "associate" system in the US is radically different than whatever it was in Sicily. I don't doubt that they had a system with similar guidelines, I just have to believe it was much different and had different terminology. There was probably a greater emphasis on being "with" someone rather than calling them a particular word.
In Italy, "Friends of Friends" has a usage. "You don't want to do that here, the owner is friends of Friends." If the owner knew someone personally or/and was sending money/tribute to I don't know.
Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina
Chris you are right on the the term "friend" when someone who made speaks to another made guy, if he refers to a made guy ..he says "friend of ours". if he is speaking about a non made guy he says he is a friend of mine..that simple. hope that helps some posters