Luciano / 1931 Mythology

[Angelo Santino]

I found myself reading the script for the 1991 film mobsters. It's a cheesy but adored film, at least by me and Pogo. I found this script to be amazingly well written and I wish they would have followed this one rather than the more simplified film that it became. Once the "pretty boys" the likes of Christian Slater and Patrick Dempsey came aboard, the characters of Luciano and Lanksy were polished up to fit the actors public persona.

I enjoy the script because it serves as a perfect example of the fiction that surounds Luciano. It also serves as a lens for how people think the Mafia works or worked back then. There is a sense that the boss is micromanaging all of his underlings and any more before alerting him, such as going into business or having dinner with someone, is seen as a grave offense. Boardwalk Empire was also guilty of this.

If I were to make a mob film, it would be Godfather 2 esque in that it takes cuts back and forth between two different stories. One story would be the accurate portrayal and the other would be the stylized dramatization of said events.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9082

Question though, how did this Luciano-Lansky-Seigel-Costello legend begin? Is there any truth to their deep bond or has this been greatly overexaggerated?

[motorfab]

With Anthony Quinn changing weight from scene to another . I like cheesy movies, but this is one is too much ! But there is Robert Z'dar, the proof that all is not bad in it

Have you seen Francesco Rosi's film, Lucky Luciano, released in 1974? It's obviously less "pop" than Mobsters and the film is based on Luciano post 1947, but the film even if it contains its share of myth (the Sicilian Vespers among others...) is quite nice

[Angelo Santino]

With Anthony Quinn changing weight from scene to another . I like cheesy movies, but this is one is too much ! But there is Robert Z'dar, the proof that all is not bad in it

I consider Michael Gambon's portrayal of Salvatore "Faranzano" to be one of the best. Not sure how accurate it is but he is able to exude such a menacing presence on camera. Combined with that deep echoing voice of an Englishman trying to speak with an Italian accent worked, somehow. No one can say "Fat Pig" like him and have it carry such weight. He plays him as a refined aristocratic villain pulled out of the Renaissance. He's the Final Boss of the Story.


It's very different from Joseph Wiseman's portrayal in the Valachi Papers where he depicts the stereotypical elderly Mustache Pete who is wise yet aloof from his Italian-American counterparts. His death is portrayed tragically, with him asking "his underboss Tony Bender" (don't ask) to grab his hand and make the sign of the cross.


1971's Valachi Papers was based off of the book and mostly stayed true to the material except for a few things mostly to condense the story. There's no point in going through the inaccuracies like Tony Bender being Maranzano's under or the Gap being a Genovese who gets castrated for sleeping with Vito's wife. Jeez, come to think of it, it isn't very accurate, lol. But it's more accurate than most in terms of how the mafia is depicted. The formalities and political nuances of the Mafia are heavily explored given the time period it came out in. You can see their focus on emphasizing the hierarchy and succession in the poster-


It was marketed as "the real Godfather" but flopped because the audiences preferred the fictional Don Corleone over Line Ventura as Don Vito. They attempted to Godfather it up again by having the widow of Gaetano Reina ask Maranzano to bring her husband back and Wiseman delivers a beautiful line in a thick accent: "I cannot bring back the dead, only kill the living."

And Angelo Infanti as Luciano is, IMO, the closest resemblance I've seen.


The entire cast was very good.


http://www.cineoutsider.com/reviews/blu ... rs_br.html

Some things I find interesting about it is Bonanno is named "Joe Buona" and Costello is entirely scrapped from the story. Instead, Vito goes to Italy and leaves Albert Anastasia in charge, Vito returns and has Albert killed for being against drugs and then Vito becomes boss. I have to wonder if they were worried about lawsuits from Bonanno and Costello.

1991's Mobsters, the film, drew heavily from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano, which thanks to Antiliar, has come to be entirely discredited. Whatever Luciano contributed if anything, was bastarded by Gosch and Hammer. I consider Mobsters the film version to TLTOLL and if the book is ever touched upon, the film could/should be referenced. It serves as an artistic visual of how the 1920's are nostalgically looked upon and lays bare the general thoughts on how New York's Underworld was set up at the time, which is mostly fable. "You'd think Luciano was the first Italian to ever talk to a Jew before" - Polack Tony.

This matters because the fable persists. Most mafia books written that go into history will almost certainly cite 1931 as the founding of the American Mafia with Luciano and Lansky at the helm after having murdered the two feuding Petes and ordered everyone to be more American by applying business tactics to crime rather than feuds and being accepting of non-Italians. This is such a gross depiction of what actually happened and didn't happen because it leads people away from where the mafia originated and really doesn't give credit to the Mafiosi before that point who were political and operational successes in their own right. It leads to this idea that a Sicilian never had the idea of a structure or political system and instead just wanted to kill everyone over any offense. And that in 1931 America, they were absorbed by an alignment of multi-regional Italians to form Cosa Nostra. Which doesn't explain why, if the system was formed here, why is already was documented in Sicily in fractures between 1860 and 1960.

In all actuality, the Alien Conspiracy Theory had some accuracy to a degree. I don't think the Sicilian Mafia "sent" the Mafia to America to take it over in some nefarious conspiracy but I do know that the Mafia imported their System and Network as the Sicilian population emigrated. Each and every Family that exists or has existed was founded by bosses who were members in Sicily before arriving. And the fact that they already had these structures, political bodies, formalities and social recognition only further proves 1931's significance was the abolishment of the BOB and incorporation of the commission which was likely a continuation of the Grand Council (of Bosses) that was first documented in 1908.

Good article on the Alien Conspiracy Theory.
https://standinggroups.ecpr.eu/sgoc/the ... nt-parlor/

[Angelo Santino]

Another film that could be referenced is Bonanno- A Godfather's Story. Both father and son were involved with its production and inserted things that weren't in either of their books. Of course it's not without its errors. The JFK assassination was one example. But as a source, Antiliar would argue it could be sources as any of their books given their involvement and some accurate things depicted only there.

It's on YT for free-
https://youtu.be/NdbDRZ3y7zY

[Pogo The Clown]

The Valachi Papers: The movie the Mafia doesn't want you to see.


Pogo

[Antiliar]

The gist of the origin story is that Luciano demanded tribute from the young Lansky and Siegel as they were playing street craps. Instead they threw a punch at him or drew a knife, but instead of it leading to a big fight they gained Luciano's respect. It's been years so I researched it, but this story might come from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano. According to an official interview Lansky gave, they met as adults. Young adults, but still adults. There's no story about how they met Frank Costello, but Costello knew Al Capone probably before he went to Chicago, I assume through Frankie Yale. Since Yale later became a caporegime under Masseria, it's possible that he introduced them.

Luciano and Lansky were extremely close. That's true. It's also true that Siegel and Lansky were close, but we don't know about Siegel and Luciano. Costello was probably fairly close to Luciano too and more of an acquaintance to Lansky.

I wrote about how Lansky and Luciano met here: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/366261

[Angelo Santino]

The gist of the origin story is that Luciano demanded tribute from the young Lansky and Siegel as they were playing street craps. Instead they threw a punch at him or drew a knife, but instead of it leading to a big fight they gained Luciano's respect. It's been years so I researched it, but this story might come from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano. According to an official interview Lansky gave, they met as adults. Young adults, but still adults. There's no story about how they met Frank Costello, but Costello knew Al Capone probably before he went to Chicago, I assume through Frankie Yale. Since Yale later became a caporegime under Masseria, it's possible that he introduced them.

Luciano and Lansky were extremely close. That's true. It's also true that Siegel and Lansky were close, but we don't know about Siegel and Luciano. Costello was probably fairly close to Luciano too and more of an acquaintance to Lansky.

I wrote about how Lansky and Luciano met here: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/366261

So they weren't exactly the Fantastic Four. They all knew each other and associated and were even friends but it wasn't quite them against the world. Do we even know how Luciano felt about the Mafia? Bonanno claimed he made a serious attempt at respecting the tradition despite not being from it. Then there's also the myth that Luciano and Lanksy became rivals at the end as well as with Genovese. I believe the only sources for that is Gosch. Correct me but didn't something come out somewhere that Luciano supported Genovese over Costello during their tension?

Thanks for the link, BTW.

[Gelis]

So they weren't exactly the Fantastic Four. They all knew each other and associated and were even friends but it wasn't quite them against the world. Do we even know how Luciano felt about the Mafia? Bonanno claimed he made a serious attempt at respecting the tradition despite not being from it. Then there's also the myth that Luciano and Lanksy became rivals at the end as well as with Genovese. I believe the only sources for that is Gosch. Correct me but didn't something come out somewhere that Luciano supported Genovese over Costello during their tension?
Thanks for the link, BTW.

I recall reading somewhere in the deep and distant past that Lansky's recollection of his and Lucky's first meeting was pretty much identical to that described in Last Testament.

Also I've been looking at Luciano's FBI files over at Internet Archive and saw an interesting statement from a FBI interview with Joe Profaci that he visited Luciano's father Antonio when he, Profaci, first came to the US. Anyone have any idea what that's about as Luciano's family, as stated, appears to have had no Sicilian mafia connections?

[aleksandrored]

This is very interesting from the mobsters script, thanks for sharing, despite being cheesy I also like this movie.

The Luciano film that motorfab mentioned is one of my favorites, despite having Luciano's myths, I think he's very good, and for me Gian Maria Volonté played Luciano very well.

I also read that Lansky said he met Luciano just like the last testament, as Gelis said, but I could be wrong, it was in a documentary it seems.

[Angelo Santino]

Lucky Luciano is an interesting film. Watching it now in original Italian. Never seen before.

[Angelo Santino]

Lucky Luciano is an interesting film. Watching it now in original Italian. Never seen before.

- "But now the Republicans are in office."
- "The Mafia makes no distinction between parties, they have no parties. They're on the side of whoever's in power. In Truman days they were heavily backing Truman. Now Dewey is in power."

Very true words coming from a Mafia film.

[Gelis]

I remember that film. Thought it was sub-titles. Luciano actor very good. More like a docudrama than a movie

[JoelTurner]

Also I've been looking at Luciano's FBI files over at Internet Archive and saw an interesting statement from a FBI interview with Joe Profaci that he visited Luciano's father Antonio when he, Profaci, first came to the US. Anyone have any idea what that's about as Luciano's family, as stated, appears to have had no Sicilian mafia connections?

I'd be kind of surprised, I don't think they really approved let alone that they had mafia ties. Didn't his parents pretty much kick him out of the house because of his activities? Plus, his father never visited him when he was in prison.

[JoelTurner]

The gist of the origin story is that Luciano demanded tribute from the young Lansky and Siegel as they were playing street craps. Instead they threw a punch at him or drew a knife, but instead of it leading to a big fight they gained Luciano's respect. It's been years so I researched it, but this story might come from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano. According to an official interview Lansky gave, they met as adults. Young adults, but still adults. There's no story about how they met Frank Costello, but Costello knew Al Capone probably before he went to Chicago, I assume through Frankie Yale. Since Yale later became a caporegime under Masseria, it's possible that he introduced them.

Luciano and Lansky were extremely close. That's true. It's also true that Siegel and Lansky were close, but we don't know about Siegel and Luciano. Costello was probably fairly close to Luciano too and more of an acquaintance to Lansky.

I wrote about how Lansky and Luciano met here: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/366261

So they weren't exactly the Fantastic Four. They all knew each other and associated and were even friends but it wasn't quite them against the world. Do we even know how Luciano felt about the Mafia? Bonanno claimed he made a serious attempt at respecting the tradition despite not being from it. Then there's also the myth that Luciano and Lanksy became rivals at the end as well as with Genovese. I believe the only sources for that is Gosch. Correct me but didn't something come out somewhere that Luciano supported Genovese over Costello during their tension?

Thanks for the link, BTW.

Everyone seems to have been chill with Lucky. Did he have any enemies outside of Maranzano for a couple of months?

[Wiseguy]

Mobsters is a guilty pleasure. Is Richard Grieco even still alive?

I always thought one of the best portrayals was Ben Kingsley playing Lansky in the movie Bugsy.