Existing Families (2022)

[Ryan98366]

Active Family:

1. Conducted a making ceremony in the last 10 years

2. Admin: Has a boss, underboss and consigliere and at least one captain

3. More solidiers than administration. You can’t be a crime family and be all chiefs and no Indians.

4. Has legit criminal enterprises. You can’t be an “active family”and it’s 3 old guys in a nursing home playing pinochle in pajamas.

[furiofromnaples]

Existing in terms of what the Mafia considers to be existing in terms of recognition.

1-5 - New York
6 - Philadelphia
7 - New England
8 - Tampa (Lo Scalzo is still alive)
9 - Buffalo (Confirmed by a member in 2017)
10 - Detroit (as per Scott)
11 - Chicago
12 - Kansas City (Rumored)
13 - New Orleans (confirmed by a member as of 2002, members arrested in 2014)
14 - LA (Tommy Gambino)
15 - Cleveland (1 member but there's been rumors that Papalardo has an admin, I got no opinion)
16 - DeCavalcante

Confirmed Defunct
1 - San Francisco
2 - San Jose
3 - Dallas
4 - Bufalino
5 - Milwaukee? - I really don't know much about Milwaukee.
6 - Madison
7 - St Louis
8 - Pueblo/Denver
9 - Pittsburgh

I think that a group equal or smaller respect a decina can't beconsiderate as a family. Tampa is done same thing for Cleveland,New Orleans etc.

[Wiseguy]

Active Family:

1. Conducted a making ceremony in the last 10 years

2. Admin: Has a boss, underboss and consigliere and at least one captain

3. More solidiers than administration. You can’t be a crime family and be all chiefs and no Indians.

4. Has legit criminal enterprises. You can’t be an “active family”and it’s 3 old guys in a nursing home playing pinochle in pajamas.

For the sake of discussion, using that criteria, the 5 New York families would obviously make the grade. Though I would change that to an administration because not all of them are the classic boss, underboss, consigliere.

Obviously Philadelphia too. New Jersey also. I think the last known ceremony was 2014 or 2015.

New England had at least one ceremony after 2011 but unclear if it was within the last 10 years.

With that criteria, Chicago is iffy. No known ceremonies within last 10 years. Unclear if they have a working administration, since DeLaurentis being the boss and Vena the street boss seems to have been more a working theory than anything.

Buffalo, ironically enough, did make Violi in 2014. Does have a nominal boss and underboss. Rocco Luppino is a captain. And does have more soldiers (8) than administration. Legit criminal enterprises is debatable.

Nobody else.

[Moscone65]

DId you just slyly, covertly admit you think that Buffalo is an "active" family?

[Wiseguy]

DId you just slyly, covertly admit you think that Buffalo is an "active" family?

No. That's why said "for the sake of discussion," "using that criteria," "debatable," etc.

[Moscone65]

ok

[Newyorkempire]

Active Family:

1. Conducted a making ceremony in the last 10 years

2. Admin: Has a boss, underboss and consigliere and at least one captain

3. More solidiers than administration. You can’t be a crime family and be all chiefs and no Indians.

4. Has legit criminal enterprises. You can’t be an “active family”and it’s 3 old guys in a nursing home playing pinochle in pajamas.

For the sake of discussion, using that criteria, the 5 New York families would obviously make the grade. Though I would change that to an administration because not all of them are the classic boss, underboss, consigliere.

Obviously Philadelphia too. New Jersey also. I think the last known ceremony was 2014 or 2015.

New England had at least one ceremony after 2011 but unclear if it was within the last 10 years.

With that criteria, Chicago is iffy. No known ceremonies within last 10 years. Unclear if they have a working administration, since DeLaurentis being the boss and Vena the street boss seems to have been more a working theory than anything.

Buffalo, ironically enough, did make Violi in 2014. Does have a nominal boss and underboss. Rocco Luppino is a captain. And does have more soldiers (8) than administration. Legit criminal enterprises is debatable.

Nobody else.

So now Buffalo exists according to your measurements. You grade Todaro as "nominal" per what expertise or credentials I have no idea and 3 days ago you were criticizing posters who believed Buffalo was still a family. Are you on drugs? Seriously what is wrong with you. Fucking goofball troll at his finest.

"For the sake of discussion". Lol. Unreal

[nizarsoccer]

Active Family:

1. Conducted a making ceremony in the last 10 years

2. Admin: Has a boss, underboss and consigliere and at least one captain

3. More solidiers than administration. You can’t be a crime family and be all chiefs and no Indians.

4. Has legit criminal enterprises. You can’t be an “active family”and it’s 3 old guys in a nursing home playing pinochle in pajamas.

For the sake of discussion, using that criteria, the 5 New York families would obviously make the grade. Though I would change that to an administration because not all of them are the classic boss, underboss, consigliere.

Obviously Philadelphia too. New Jersey also. I think the last known ceremony was 2014 or 2015.

New England had at least one ceremony after 2011 but unclear if it was within the last 10 years.

With that criteria, Chicago is iffy. No known ceremonies within last 10 years. Unclear if they have a working administration, since DeLaurentis being the boss and Vena the street boss seems to have been more a working theory than anything.

Buffalo, ironically enough, did make Violi in 2014. Does have a nominal boss and underboss. Rocco Luppino is a captain. And does have more soldiers (8) than administration. Legit criminal enterprises is debatable.

Nobody else.

So now Buffalo exists according to your measurements. You grade Todaro as "nominal" per what expertise or credentials I have no idea and 3 days ago you were criticizing posters who believed Buffalo was still a family. Are you on drugs? Seriously what is wrong with you. Fucking goofball troll at his finest.

"For the sake of discussion". Lol. Unreal

Spare this thread please.

[Antiliar]

Let's keep the personal issues with other members out of the thread. If you have an issue take it to the Graveyard section.

[cobra]

-springfield, illinois
-separate family or chicago decina?

[PolackTony]

-springfield, illinois
-separate family or chicago decina?

WAS it’s own family. After it went defunct, no evidence that I’m aware of that would support it being absorbed by Chicago (as the FBI at least sometimes believed for Rockford). Springfield is a long ways from Chicago and is in a very distinct region in terms of geography and culture, unlike Rockford. In contrast to some other families like Pittsburgh, Chicago doesn’t seem to have ever had regional decine or outposts (Chi Heights and Gary are suburbs of Chicago, so they’re within the Chicagoland metro region). Though there’s still plenty that we don’t know about the past, as there was an apparent mafia network in Deep South IL composed of Agrigentini who were connected to both STL and Chicago, and one claim from the 60s that Chicago had something going on in Peoria (unsubstantiated so far as I know).

Chicago had many connected Italian politicians, either members of the mafia or associates, and a good number of them held state office and thus spent time in Springfield. One would assume that these guys had connections to the Springfield family for that reason, though this is an underexplored topic.

[B.]

The CI who mentioned Peoria also wasn't sure if Milwaukee and Rockford were Chicago crews but suspected Milwaukee was more than just a crew. He may have heard about a small mafia presence in Peoria but like Milwaukee/Rockford didn't know the formal designation.

Active Family:

1. Conducted a making ceremony in the last 10 years

2. Admin: Has a boss, underboss and consigliere and at least one captain

3. More solidiers than administration. You can’t be a crime family and be all chiefs and no Indians.

4. Has legit criminal enterprises. You can’t be an “active family”and it’s 3 old guys in a nursing home playing pinochle in pajamas.

I appreciate the rationale behind this, but I just use the mafia's own rules and protocol, which is:

1. Families can go decades without inducting members and remain active. New Orleans went decades and allegedly had as few as five members in 1968 but was still seen as an autonomous and respected Family.

2. Sometimes Families leave admin spots open for various reasons and they don't always follow a chain of command. In Sicily Buscetta said a Family can have one member left who serves as "boss", and that's a much different landscape, but the same principal would apply. The difference is in a Sicilian village you're surrounded by potential recruits and there are dozens of other Families nearby to reinforce the position.

3. There's no evidence the mafia ever stopped recognizing a Family because they were top-heavy. Colombo told Scarpa NO in 1968 had a three man admin with two soldiers. Marcello was still an esteemed rappresentate in his jurisdiction.

4. Plenty of mafiosi have had minimal to no criminal activity and remained in good standing, even becoming boss. The Madison Family apparently went decades with little to no criminality, focusing entirely on the food business. However their food businesses used the national mafia network to further their legitimate businesses -- it might not be criminal, but that's mafia activity.

A lot of this draws on precedent and I know Wiseguy believes you can't compare the current day stuff to back then. I agree a lot has changed but the mafia is an extremely conservative phenomenon based entirely on precedent. They're more similar to the 1870s mafia than they are different in terms of organization and rules.

And as counterpoint to what you said, Rochester checked all of the boxes you listed in the 1970s and 80s but was never a recognized Family. There's no evidence their administration or organization were ever recognized by the Commission and Tony Salerno said as much as late as the mid-1980s. They were certainly a viable organized crime group led by mafiosi, but to the mafia itself they were no different from the Gallo brothers or Bonanno's Tucson group.

I understand the law enforcement point of view and I think it's important to take that into consideration too, but I'm personally focused on understanding the mafia's own system and I use that when discussing Families, members, ranks, etc. It's for the same reasons that I don't consider someone an official boss even if they were the real power behind the throne.

[Wiseguy]

Active Family:

1. Conducted a making ceremony in the last 10 years

2. Admin: Has a boss, underboss and consigliere and at least one captain

3. More solidiers than administration. You can’t be a crime family and be all chiefs and no Indians.

4. Has legit criminal enterprises. You can’t be an “active family”and it’s 3 old guys in a nursing home playing pinochle in pajamas.

I appreciate the rationale behind this, but I just use the mafia's own rules and protocol, which is:

1. Families can go decades without inducting members and remain active. New Orleans went decades and allegedly had as few as five members in 1968 but was still seen as an autonomous and respected Family.

2. Sometimes Families leave admin spots open for various reasons and they don't always follow a chain of command. In Sicily Buscetta said a Family can have one member left who serves as "boss", and that's a much different landscape, but the same principal would apply. The difference is in a Sicilian village you're surrounded by potential recruits and there are dozens of other Families nearby to reinforce the position.

3. There's no evidence the mafia ever stopped recognizing a Family because they were top-heavy. Colombo told Scarpa NO in 1968 had a three man admin with two soldiers. Marcello was still an esteemed rappresentate in his jurisdiction.

4. Plenty of mafiosi have had minimal to no criminal activity and remained in good standing, even becoming boss. The Madison Family apparently went decades with little to no criminality, focusing entirely on the food business. However their food businesses used the national mafia network to further their legitimate businesses -- it might not be criminal, but that's mafia activity.

A lot of this draws on precedent and I know Wiseguy believes you can't compare the current day stuff to back then. I agree a lot has changed but the mafia is an extremely conservative phenomenon based entirely on precedent. They're more similar to the 1870s mafia than they are different in terms of organization and rules.

And as counterpoint to what you said, Rochester checked all of the boxes you listed in the 1970s and 80s but was never a recognized Family. There's no evidence their administration or organization were ever recognized by the Commission and Tony Salerno said as much as late as the mid-1980s. They were certainly a viable organized crime group led by mafiosi, but to the mafia itself they were no different from the Gallo brothers or Bonanno's Tucson group.

I understand the law enforcement point of view and I think it's important to take that into consideration too, but I'm personally focused on understanding the mafia's own system and I use that when discussing Families, members, ranks, etc. It's for the same reasons that I don't consider someone an official boss even if they were the real power behind the throne.

If we are looking at it from the Mafia's own internal criteria, as outlined above, I don't disagree with it. As an outsider I obviously come from the other direction because, if for no other reason, I think the external/law enforcement approach gives a more practical view of things.

If any family is still recognized with a single or a few members, then by that criteria there are still 20 families in the country. But to say, "There are 20 Mafia families in the U.S." can be pretty misleading and paint a very warped picture of things as they now stand.

[B.]

If we are looking at it from the Mafia's own internal criteria, as outlined above, I don't disagree with it.

Fist bump.

I don't necessarily think members = recognition, to be clear. Like with Cleveland and Agnello, if the Gambino Family reached out to the remaining members and said "Hey an inactive/shelved member is moving out there and we want to let you know", then to me Cleveland is still a recognized Family. On a practical level the Cleveland Family can't say no to a Gambino member moving there but if the Gambinos followed protocol I'd still consider them a Family (for now). We can see Buffalo is still recognized by the Bonannos and apparently the "Commission" (i.e. the NYC bosses) regardless of what is/isn't going on there.

I'd love to know which groups are still recognized, even just nominally. DiLeonardo's info tells us New Orleans had recognition in the early 2000s and were still tapped into the network enough to meet with Remini. Remini in turn asked DiLeonardo if he wanted to meet with the NO guys, so it sounds like he saw it as a chance to reinforce the network or maybe NO asked to be introduced to other Gambino members during their visit for the same reason.

[B.]

What we're seeing from most of the non-NYC Families on CC's list of existing/possibly existing Families are bosses who come from a mafia background, not just random Italian-American criminals who took things over. I think this is an important detail that tells us why certain individuals still want to be involved in the 21st century mafia. In many ways to me it mirrors the origins of these groups in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

6 - Philadelphia
- Boss's father was an underboss and uncle was a captain

8 - Tampa (Lo Scalzo is still alive)
- Boss's father was a member, Family was/is almost entirely kinship based

9 - Buffalo (Confirmed by a member in 2017)
- Boss's father and great-uncle were bosses, Family heavily kinship based

10 - Detroit (as per Scott)
- Boss's father was a member and uncle was captain/"street boss", Family almost entirely kinship based

11 - Chicago
- Rumored boss's family appears to go back over a century in Chicago mafia activity

12 - Kansas City (Rumored)
- If there's still an organization the boss probably comes from a local mafia lineage

13 - New Orleans (confirmed by a member as of 2002, members arrested in 2014)
- If Joe Gagliano is/was the boss, his father + grandfather were high-ranking members

14 - LA (Tommy Gambino)
- If Gambino became boss, all his relatives are multi-gen mafia leaders/members in NYC and Sicily

16 - DeCavalcante
- Alleged boss is a third gen mafioso + father was underboss, cousin is the current Genovese boss. Family is heavily kinship based