Historical Genovese Leadership Crews

[Angelo Santino]

I enjoy it when we brainstorm on these topics. It inspires us to re-check the facts.

Assuming that Chris is correct, we have eliminated some gaps in the list of consiglieri:
1. Saverio Pollaccia, ?-1931 (k. 1932)
2. Frank Costello or unknown for a few years
3. Frank Costello, 1930s-1946 (became official boss)
4. Sandino Pandolfo, 1946-1957 (resigned/stepped down for unknown reasons)
5. Michele Miranda, 1957-c1970

We can't assume. The best I can state is this is the story Maas narrated came from Valachi. There are ways to take this research further. But this is just one source. I'm sure MaryFarrell has released some files that maybe delve into this more from different sources.

However, the only place where Frank Costello is listed as consig is in the last testament, something Bill didn't do in his first two books. Maybe JB (who didn't list that in his book either) finally remembered or it just fell in there like D'Aquila being a member of Masseria's group in NJ.

Being that Costello and Valachi both came from Harlem, Valachi implies the two hardly crossed paths. Valachi had Genovese's ear, he hardly knew Costello. Which may explain why he doesn't go into him much. The two men operated in separate circles. And while Vincent Teresa has been largely debunked as the New England "number 2 guy" turned informant, he claims he shared the Valachi suite for a time and Valachi was hesitant of him but eventually opened up. He shared a hatred of Frank Costello if Teresa is to be believed and that's a pretty big if.

Luciano aside, all the other admin leaders appear to have been mainlanders. Dominick DiDato might have been the last remnants of the original Corleonesi faction. Everyone else: Gen, Costello, Sandino, Miranda, Strollo, Eboli are all mainlanders. Apparently there wasn't much of a Sicilian-mainland division of admin positions like there was in Philadelphia.

[Angelo Santino]

And with B's discussion on the true descendants of the Corleonesi...

The Luccheses got the Gaglianos, Reinas, LaSala, DiPalermo and it was most likely the sanctioned group whereas Morello and his loyalists were ostracized, many were murdered, others disappeared. As per the Gen, judging from the amount of mainlanders (2/3's of ID family membership identified), it appears Masseria did ALOT of beefing up. Joe Bonanno even said he amassed power by "swallowing up" smaller groups. He never elaborated further.

One can argue Morello's place at the top of the Genovese solidifies it's connection to the original, but the Luccheses can boast the same thing. No matter how you look at it, Masseria and Morello kinda did the mafia version of what Ari Gold and Lloyd did by ankling and opening up their own Entertainment Agency with Babbs (Yale).

[Antiliar]

I enjoy it when we brainstorm on these topics. It inspires us to re-check the facts.

Assuming that Chris is correct, we have eliminated some gaps in the list of consiglieri:
1. Saverio Pollaccia, ?-1931 (k. 1932)
2. Frank Costello or unknown for a few years
3. Frank Costello, 1930s-1946 (became official boss)
4. Sandino Pandolfo, 1946-1957 (resigned/stepped down for unknown reasons)
5. Michele Miranda, 1957-c1970

We can't assume. The best I can state is this is the story Maas narrated came from Valachi. There are ways to take this research further. But this is just one source. I'm sure MaryFarrell has released some files that maybe delve into this more from different sources.

However, the only place where Frank Costello is listed as consig is in the last testament, something Bill didn't do in his first two books. Maybe JB (who didn't list that in his book either) finally remembered or it just fell in there like D'Aquila being a member of Masseria's group in NJ.

Being that Costello and Valachi both came from Harlem, Valachi implies the two hardly crossed paths. Valachi had Genovese's ear, he hardly knew Costello. Which may explain why he doesn't go into him much. The two men operated in separate circles. And while Vincent Teresa has been largely debunked as the New England "number 2 guy" turned informant, he claims he shared the Valachi suite for a time and Valachi was hesitant of him but eventually opened up. He shared a hatred of Frank Costello if Teresa is to be believed and that's a pretty big if.

Luciano aside, all the other admin leaders appear to have been mainlanders. Dominick DiDato might have been the last remnants of the original Corleonesi faction. Everyone else: Gen, Costello, Sandino, Miranda, Strollo, Eboli are all mainlanders. Apparently there wasn't much of a Sicilian-mainland division of admin positions like there was in Philadelphia.

We can assume for sake of discussion, it doesn't mean we stop searching for additional evidence. I've never seen anything on Pandolfo that's informative in Mary Farrell's site (there is a little about him though).

Yes, the only source for Frank Costello being a consig is Bill Bonanno. Because he was wrong in one thing (D'Aquila) doesn't mean he was wrong in other things. His father knew Frank C, but is unlikely to have ever met D'Aquila. D'Aquila was before his father's time, Costello wasn't. So it's more likely that he may be correct on this versus what he wrote about D'Aquila.

Genovese seems to have been more connected with his members while Costello was more interested in politicians and socialites. Genovese may also have considered Valachi a paisan and that could have meant something.

When Didato was killed the papers reported that he was a former partner with Luciano, whatever that means. Who knows, since Didato was killed in the 1930s maybe it's possible that he took over Luciano's crew and was succeeded by Greco. We just don't know. Too many gaps in our knowledge. We just have to get more files on the early guys and see what we learn.

[Angelo Santino]

I think I need to read what Valachi originally wrote and see if he makes mention of the number of crews.

Regarding Costello as consig, I don't disbelieve it, I'm just stating it came from BBonanno who's books info has changed a few times. It's odd that it wasn't in Bound by Honor despite the specifics of Costello becoming "official" in 1946, contrary to what Valachi/Mass claim in their work. Regarding JB, unless he "remembered it" later the reverse could be said: why didn't Bonanno mention Costello in any form before being boss? With other bosses he gave a detailed background on most others... Costello makes sense but I'm apprehensive.

Valachi/Gen as paisani makes sense, but it could also have to do with him being in Tony Bender's crew. Sandino appears to have been close to both Gen and Bender. Given Valachi's proximity to Bender, he had a unique vantage point.

[B.]

I think we talked about this, there might be something to Valachi ending up with Bender/Genovese beyond just shared neighborhood and the seemingly random political reasons related to the war. While he may have been "clueless" (as I said in my topic about it) to have abandoned his strong ties to the Luccheses, the suggestion he received "go with Vito" may have been because of his background. He was first schooled in prison by a high-ranking Camorra member and then he ended up with a heavy mainland faction with loyalty to a Neapolitan underboss (Vito). Valachi also had a personal relationship to that Neapolitan underboss that he may not have had if he came from a different background. Then you have Gigante who has been called a protege of Vito (anyone know if that's true?), and he was Neapolitan as well. Part of it's the neighborhoods and the populations in those neighborhoods, but I think it's deeper.

Speaking of that... Christie mentioned the "combaneesh". All we have is Ray DeCarlo, a member since the mid-late 1940s, talking about it second or third hand, but he was close to the right people and may have even heard it direct from Vito. Combaneesh implies combination, and I think DeCarlo says Vito was "snuck in", but this doesn't necessarily mean he was secretly made. The word combination could easily mean that they brought Camorra members/affiliates into the fold at that time and that existing Camorra members were snuck in. Vito Genovese was heavily associated with Camorra members and for all we know could have been through a ceremony with them before transferring to the Masseria family.

Sandino Pandolfo (real name Alessandro?) brings up some other questions for me. Maybe he was the family's consigliere, which I am leaning toward, but let's say he's not. Let's say he really was just the unofficial consigliere of the Tony Strollo crew. If it's true that Strollo had dozens of members under him and the crews operated almost like their own little families, maybe it was necessary to have unofficial roles like that. Even in other families not all soldiers are created equal, from clearcut cases where a capo who is not in jail or on the lam delegates an "acting capo" just to create a buffer, to cases where it's just favoritism giving some soldiers a stronger role in a crew... there is a precedent for unofficial roles like that is all I'm saying. Throw in a massive crew with an alternative structure and it becomes even more realistic, though I'm not going to say I support that theory over any other.

Chee Gusae... you guys have gone to great lengths to identify him and he's still a mystery man, so I can't add much. I remember someone on the RealDeal said that his grandma who grew up in East Harlem talked about a "Shay Gootz" being a powerful man at the time, but you know how I feel about random message board comments. I don't remember the RD member in question being obnoxious or a blatant liar (can't remember who he was... I'm BANNED BANNED BANNED, so I can't check) but the comment can't help us anyway. I think JD found a transcript where he was named as "Sheik" which is a possible lead. I tried to find connections to Genovese member Tony "Sheik" Carillo (i.e. maybe a father or relative) with no luck. Unfortunately I don't have much faith in ever finding out his true name... you look at the phonetic names in the Magaddino transcript for example and Chee Gusae would fit right in with some of those butchered interpretations.

[Angelo Santino]

Maybe this will help. Gen crew succession (as per Pogo.)
Red boxes are captains that went onto becoming admin members.

http://s27.postimg.org/qvsodfvlt/gencrews.gif

[Antiliar]

Chris: I can see that a reason for Joe Bonanno not mentioning it before is because he wasn't asked. These guys like to tell stories about what they want to talk about, and if you want to know something specific you have to ask them. Bonanno worked with Sergio Lalli, and who knows how much or little he knew about OC? Certainly not as much as we do with all the resources that are now available. Bill Bonanno was more into history. He took a creative writing class while he was in prison, and did pretty well (this was noted in the Los Angeles Times then). When I was emailing Bill I used to pepper him with questions, but he wanted to hold back on his answers for his book, so who knows? Maybe I'm the reason he mentioned Costello LOL. Or maybe his co-author Gary Abramovitz asked him. I do know that when Bill made that movie that came out in 1999 he said he and a couple others interviewed his 90-something father for almost 48 hours straight, which is why some info came out in the film that wasn't in his book.

B: Only thing I would add is that I think being "sneaked in" meant not being vetted by the other Families, as per standard procedure.

[Antiliar]

This may be "our" Sandino Pandolfo:

Name: Alexand Pandolfo
Birth Year: abt 1897
Age: 51
Death Date: 6 Aug 1948
Death Place: Manhattan, New York, USA
Certificate Number: 17605

Name: Alexander Ovaleo Pandolfo
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1897
Birth Place: Napoli, Italy
Father Name: Luigi O Pandolfo
Mother Name: Virginia Piccerello

[toto]

Sandino could also be Santino and the real name would be Santo.

On the Mary Ferrell site he's mentioned by somebody on 21 February 1958 and it says he died about 2 years ago.

[Antiliar]

Sandino could also be Santino and the real name would be Santo.

On the Mary Ferrell site he's mentioned by somebody on 21 February 1958 and it says he died about 2 years ago.

I saw that, but in looking through census records and death indexes there's no one else who fits. All the records identify him as Sandino Pandolfo, and Sandino is short for Alessandro. This one owned a coffee shop or restaurant on Washington Square near Thompson Street and was born in Naples. The one other with a similar name of Pandolfi died in 1965, didn't come from Naples and lived in Richmond County. There was a third one who was Sicilian and lived in Connecticut. It has to be him. A lot of these informants are notoriously bad with dates and chronologies unless there's someone who can fact check them. Anyway, if this was the guy it meant that he was only the consig for about two years. So did Miranda replace him? If anyone has the Miranda file maybe he can scour it for info and let us know.

[Snakes]

This is great info. I love reading these types of threads. Thanks, guys.

[toto]

Sandino could also be Santino and the real name would be Santo.

On the Mary Ferrell site he's mentioned by somebody on 21 February 1958 and it says he died about 2 years ago.

I saw that, but in looking through census records and death indexes there's no one else who fits. All the records identify him as Sandino Pandolfo, and Sandino is short for Alessandro. This one owned a coffee shop or restaurant on Washington Square near Thompson Street and was born in Naples. The one other with a similar name of Pandolfi died in 1965, didn't come from Naples and lived in Richmond County. There was a third one who was Sicilian and lived in Connecticut. It has to be him. A lot of these informants are notoriously bad with dates and chronologies unless there's someone who can fact check them. Anyway, if this was the guy it meant that he was only the consig for about two years. So did Miranda replace him? If anyone has the Miranda file maybe he can scour it for info and let us know.

Actually it should be Sandrino and that is from Alessandro. Like Sarino is from Rosario.

But I agree about the rest. Anyway, you guys are the experts and I don't know anything about this topic.

[Angelo Santino]

Chris: I can see that a reason for Joe Bonanno not mentioning it before is because he wasn't asked. These guys like to tell stories about what they want to talk about, and if you want to know something specific you have to ask them. Bonanno worked with Sergio Lalli, and who knows how much or little he knew about OC? Certainly not as much as we do with all the resources that are now available. Bill Bonanno was more into history. He took a creative writing class while he was in prison, and did pretty well (this was noted in the Los Angeles Times then). When I was emailing Bill I used to pepper him with questions, but he wanted to hold back on his answers for his book, so who knows? Maybe I'm the reason he mentioned Costello LOL. Or maybe his co-author Gary Abramovitz asked him. I do know that when Bill made that movie that came out in 1999 he said he and a couple others interviewed his 90-something father for almost 48 hours straight, which is why some info came out in the film that wasn't in his book.

B: Only thing I would add is that I think being "sneaked in" meant not being vetted by the other Families, as per standard procedure.

I just don't feel the same way about Bill Bonanno's accuracy. He's lied too much, he embellished too often, his tidbits need to be confirmed/verified/supported by other sources in my view before I consider it something to go with. He has in his second book Johnny Roselli admitting to him that he was second gunman on the grassy knoll and he "admits" that his being the basis for Michael Corleone. I don't know what to believe and what not and unless I see something with supporting evidence from a different source, I'm critical. I have no problem stating him as a source just like I have no problem stating what informants said (75 Gambino capos, 40 Bonanno members total).



Also it should be noted that Costello's "consigliere" status only appears in one of the graph's that frequent the book.

[Angelo Santino]

This may be "our" Sandino Pandolfo:

Name: Alexand Pandolfo
Birth Year: abt 1897
Age: 51
Death Date: 6 Aug 1948
Death Place: Manhattan, New York, USA
Certificate Number: 17605

Name: Alexander Ovaleo Pandolfo
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1897
Birth Place: Napoli, Italy
Father Name: Luigi O Pandolfo
Mother Name: Virginia Piccerello

Interesting what Valachi said: "Sandino was a greaseball but he had a sharp head." Valachi was six years younger than him (1903). His close proximity to Thompson St is interesting. He was certainly in walking distance of Genovese's area, far from Costello's Harlem. I wonder if it's possible that he was elevated during the time of Luciano-Genovese. If Costello promoted him, that might have been throwing Genovese a bone while in Italy. All speculation from my end.

The name Piccerello sounds familiar to me. I can't place it.

Great find, BTW. If this guy was Consig he's about as under the radar as Gagliano was.

[Angelo Santino]

Maybe this will help. Gen crew succession (as per Pogo.)
Red boxes are captains that went onto becoming admin members.

http://s27.postimg.org/qvsodfvlt/gencrews.gif

And the reason I took the time to whip this chart together is to show continuities. For instance, the early 1960's and again in the 1970's is when you seen crews being broken up into smaller regimes. It could be a coincidence or it could indicate a change of modus operandi. Smaller crews might have been seen as "containing any infections from the whole" better. And some crews more than others have more captains going into Admin positions, Harlem is one example. This could be seen as on "combative method" against law enforcement scrutiny. The mob social life of today is peanuts compared to what it was in the 50's when all you had was the "top hoodlum squad" and the FBN which wasn't 1/10 as aggressive as the FBI became.