Consigliere part 2 - Change from elected position to a rank that's boss appointed.

[Adam]

Interesting reference to Detroit Outfit associate Charles Monazym referring to Joe Bommarito as an "arbitrator":

This does go against my lingering idea that Detroit had a less strict Admin-Captains-Soldiers hierarchy like other families. Thank you. Charles Monazym has an incredibly fascinating organized crime life by the way.

[PolackTony]

Interesting reference to Detroit Outfit associate Charles Monazym referring to Joe Bommarito as an "arbitrator":

This does go against my lingering idea that Detroit had a less strict Admin-Captains-Soldiers hierarchy like other families. Thank you. Charles Monazym has an incredibly fascinating organized crime life by the way.

Old assumptions that families like Detroit and Chicago were manifestly different in some basic way from other families I think were largely due to outsider perspectives that proliferated in the absence of widely-known member (or high placed associate) accounts (Chicago and Detroit never had a Joe Valachi). From my perspective all of the families were structurally the same, apart from a couple of details (e.g., whether or not they had a formal consigliere, as well as whether they used a Consiglio/committee. These of course aren’t mutually exclusive and heterogeneity in how families handled those responsibilities would seem to go back to Sicily). As the families in NYC were larger than those in other cities, they would’ve had different intra-family organizational cultures to some degree, compared to much smaller families, but the ranks, CoC, and attendant responsibilities/roles were basically the same. Meaning from a formal/organizational standpoint. A family with 20 captains is going to have somewhat more social distance, presumably, between ranks than a family of 15-20 members (like STL or Madison) who mainly know each other.

[scott22]

Jimmy Q was Jack's acting consigliere when Polizzi was away. Jimmy Q was always a defacto consigliere after he relinquished the post in '81.

SMB

[scott22]

"Charlie Black" Monazym was part of the Aladdin Casino bust with Jack Tocco-affiliates Jimmy Tamer & Chuckie Goldfarb.

[PolackTony]

Interesting reference to Detroit Outfit associate Charles Monazym referring to Joe Bommarito as an "arbitrator":

Interesting to note as well that Chicago, Detroit, and Milwaukee had CIs (for Chicago and Milwaukee, this included members) who repeatedly used the term “mafia” and “mafia members” to refer to the organization into the 60s and 70s. Maybe this was true for some other families as well, but it’s something that sticks out when reading accounts for these families (CIs will use “mafia” and “outfit” interchangeably in the same account). Not sure how common the explicit use of “mafia” was for East Coast CIs during this period, as “Cosa Nostra” had become the dominant term by then.

[B.]

Those Zerilli/Giacalone tapes from the 1960s show Detroit was incredibly structured, disciplined, and Tony Zerilli was adamant about formal protocol. Giacalone was expected to follow the rules, report everything to his "confessor", and issues went up the chain of command to be handled by the council.

The "arbitrator" would be consistent with a made member given anyone with a button is "licensed" to represent/arbitrate but could mean he was designated for that type of role. I know what you're thinking haha -- sounds like Chicago's use of "avugad" for certain members of a crew. Might tell us certain guys were used for that type of duty rather than others.

[PolackTony]

Those Zerilli/Giacalone tapes from the 1960s show Detroit was incredibly structured, disciplined, and Tony Zerilli was adamant about formal protocol. Giacalone was expected to follow the rules, report everything to his "confessor", and issues went up the chain of command to be handled by the council.

The "arbitrator" would be consistent with a made member given anyone with a button is "licensed" to represent/arbitrate but could mean he was designated for that type of role. I know what you're thinking haha -- sounds like Chicago's use of "avugad" for certain members of a crew. Might tell us certain guys were used for that type of duty rather than others.

What I was thinking was that maybe Joe Bommarito was on Detroit's consiglio?

[B.]

I think CC found pretty convincing evidence the consiglio was Joe Zerilli, Bill Tocco, John Priziola, Angelo Meli, and Pete Licavoli. Three admin members + captain + semi-retired former leader.

Scott says Tocco was actually the boss for a time before Zerilli, which would make him an ex-boss on the council like we see in Milwaukee and possibly Chicago. Would also be precedent for what Bomp said about Zerilli stepping down and becoming a "consigliere of power".

[PolackTony]

I think CC found pretty convincing evidence the consiglio was Joe Zerilli, Bill Tocco, John Priziola, Angelo Meli, and Pete Licavoli. Three admin members + captain + semi-retired former leader.

Scott says Tocco was actually the boss for a time before Zerilli, which would make him an ex-boss on the council like we see in Milwaukee and possibly Chicago. Would also be precedent for what Bomp said about Zerilli stepping down and becoming a "consigliere of power".

Makes sense. Yeah, maybe Bommarito was a soldier who had played some sort of role in dealing with a dispute or something. "Arbitration" was an interesting term to use for a guy, so it would be worthwhile seeing if someone else in Detroit was described like that who didn't have a formal rank.

The Detroit Consiglio definitely sounds like Chicago's "board", in that Chicago seemed to have had retired bosses, top captains, and the boss/underboss on it.

[B.]

People used to give Scott shit about the "consigliere emeritus" term back in the day but there's zero question he was onto something. Fits perfectly with what we've learned about Detroit since then. Credit to him for sticking to his guns on that.

[PolackTony]

People used to give Scott shit about the "consigliere emeritus" term back in the day but there's zero question he was onto something. Fits perfectly with what we've learned about Detroit since then. Credit to him for sticking to his guns on that.

Scott deserves it. May not have been unique to Detriot either, given that there was an NYC CI who described the consuleri as an older semi-retired member and Maniaci who stated that the consuleri was an older member who served as an advisor to the boss.

[B.]

I've also got questions about Giuseppe Morello's exact rank later on.

Bonanno said Morello was the "second most important man" but also the "chief advisor" to Masseria. We know some people saw the consigliere as the #2 man in a Family (Massino being told he was #3 when he became underboss because Cannone was #2). Can't remember if it's Bonanno or someone else but there was also someone who said Vito Genovese assumed the same defacto position Morello was in, but it doesn't say underboss and could be referring simply to the second most powerful member regardless of rank.

Pollaccia was the consigliere by 1932 but I don't know that there's anything confirming he held the position before the 1930s. Maybe CC and Antiliar have a better read on that.

Worth considering that Morello was an ex-boss / ex-capo dei capi who held the position of consigliere when he returned to power in the 1920s. Underboss would be a more subordinate role to the boss whereas consigliere would give him a taste of his earlier power, though with Morello he would have been a massive figure no matter his rank. Bonanno's "chief advisor" comment could be another defacto description but would lend itself more to consigliere than underboss. He also represented Masseria in the meeting where he and Maranzano went through the motions of mediation.

[Angelo Santino]

there was also someone who said Vito Genovese assumed the same defacto position Morello was in, but it doesn't say underboss and could be referring simply to the second most powerful member regardless of rank.

If someone (an earlier source) said that about Genovese-Morello I don't believe I ever seen it.

Pollaccia was the consigliere by 1932 but I don't know that there's anything confirming he held the position before the 1930s. Maybe CC and Antiliar have a better read on that.

We don't know when who became what. If I recall, Gentile mentioned that Pollacia had been Masseria's consig but didn't say when he started. He could have been held it since the early 1920's or he could have taken it in 1930. I don't think we know. If there was an earlier source that said that Genovese was the next Morello that would give credence that Morello was under.

I've always thought that's what Morello was but I'm not glued to it. I could see arguments being made for and against.

Worth considering that Morello was an ex-boss / ex-capo dei capi who held the position of consigliere when he returned to power in the 1920s. Underboss would be a more subordinate role to the boss whereas consigliere would give him a taste of his earlier power, though with Morello he would have been a massive figure no matter his rank. Bonanno's "chief advisor" comment could be another defacto description but would lend itself more to consigliere than underboss. He also represented Masseria in the meeting where he and Maranzano went through the motions of mediation.

I thought you were going to suggest that he was on an early Genovese consiglio. Maybe he taught Paul Ricca the ropes, lol.

All we really have, as far as I know, that speaks to Morello's rank is what Joe Bonanno said who didn't really state a formal position. This would then go into a debate as to who was number 2 and 3 and there's examples of each position being more powerful than the other at different points in history. What did Joe Bonanno consider more influential- under or consig? That may be a window into how he viewed what Morello's position was.

[Angelo Santino]

http://mafiahistory.us/a018/f_pollaccia.html

I just spit out my drink laughing. Doing a search for Pollaccia came a result entitled "Kill the Chinaman" which could mean only one thing- Thom wrote about Masseria. And sure enough clicked the link and that's exactly what it is:
https://gangstersinc.org/profiles/blogs ... chinaman-1

Maranzano weighed more than Masseria at the time of his death and was wearing a girdle. But the Chinaman...

[scott22]

Scarface Joe Bommarito was the DET LCN "street boss" from the 1930s until he was forced into retirement in early 60s because of health reasons (he died in FLA in 1965). Tony Jack took his spot as street boss.