Consigliere part 2 - Change from elected position to a rank that's boss appointed.

[B.]

Supposed to stay on when the boss changes. Underboss and captains are technically demoted when the boss changes and he can "reappoint" them even if he keeps them in the same positions or he can name new ones. Isn't supposed to apply to consigliere at least when it's elected. Like the election, the boss can influence captains/members to vote the consigliere out.



Wouldn't say it's the norm for the boss to pick the consigliere, just that he can influence it and there are times where it's appointed.

[chin_gigante]

Again, looking at Lovaglio's statements about the Bonanno family in the 2010s, he described the consigliere role as a lifetime appointment in theory.

[thekiduknow]

Again, looking at Lovaglio's statements about the Bonanno family in the 2010s, he described the consigliere role as a lifetime appointment in theory.

It’s interesting that Cammarano and Zanacochio got off in part to the “musical consiglieres” argument their lawyer did. Different guys were all said to be consigliere in quick succession. I’m not too familiar with the more modern Bonannos, but after Spero was it Graziano who was consigliere? And wasn’t he shelved for the mob wives thing? And I know Esposito was shelved for stealing money. I wonder what happened with Anthony Rabito? He was consigliere too for a time right?

[MightyDR]

Larry Mazza on the consigliere:
- It was a lifetime spot. You couldn’t be knocked down. You either died, or stepped down.
-You had unique power to save lives. It was the duty of the consigliere to find a reason not to kill the condemned.
-Scarpa told him it was coveted and the best spot.
-All capos came to the consigliere without reservation or fear of any kind.
-Couldn't find him mention it being an elected position, sounds like they were appointed by the boss, so they must have stopped electing them in the Colombos by the 80s.

[chin_gigante]

Again, looking at Lovaglio's statements about the Bonanno family in the 2010s, he described the consigliere role as a lifetime appointment in theory.

It’s interesting that Cammarano and Zanacochio got off in part to the “musical consiglieres” argument their lawyer did. Different guys were all said to be consigliere in quick succession. I’m not too familiar with the more modern Bonannos, but after Spero was it Graziano who was consigliere? And wasn’t he shelved for the mob wives thing? And I know Esposito was shelved for stealing money. I wonder what happened with Anthony Rabito? He was consigliere too for a time right?

Graziano was on a committee under Massino and may have been serving as a de facto acting consigliere but I don't think he ever actually held the position

[B.]

Scarpa info:



- Consigliere election will be held within the Family.



- Short time later he indicates Colombo could "appoint" one, which would seem to conflict with the election statement. One thing we don't know is if the same rules apply to acting consigliere as they do official. The Colombo Family didn't have an official consigliere from 1959-1964 after Buffa died and only used acting ones.



- Here's where he says a consigliere can only hold the position once. Based on what we know the rule is a consigliere can hold the position indefinitely but only one time.



- Notes the change in behavior as Panarella took on consigliere duties. Later he identifies Panarella as the consigliere but I don't know if it was official or what. Panarella came under fire for abusing members later too.

[B.]

Both Scarpa and DiLeonardo commented how it's rare for a consigliere to be murdered. Makes sense based on operating outside of the top-down hierarchy, some getting elected, and their role as mediator.

Like we've talked about, lot of questions as to why the two men ID'd by Bill Bonanno as early Bonanno consiglieri were both killed and if they held the rank at the time of their murder. If they were no longer in the position when they were killed, question is if they stepped down or Joe Bonanno influenced the captains/members to vote them out.

Bill said in his book the consigliere was so influential he could turn the membership against the boss if he wanted but didn't give examples -- can't think of any firsthand experience he had with that, but we can be sure he wasn't talking about Tartamella. The Italiano/Rappa situations may well have influenced that statement and could tell us why they were killed.

[thekiduknow]

I think its possible that Italiano was Maranzano's consigliere and he carried over however briefly under Bonanno. Interesting what Bill says, that might be a clue. Joe said that Italiano was the member who liked him the least. Maybe Italiano tried to usurp Bonanno, or at least Bonanno thought that, rather it was real, imaginary, or just an excuse.

Rappa was partners with Joe in one of the garment firms that got that wage violation in the 1940s. So if the chart is right, and Rappa was not the consigliere when he was killed, he might have stepped down, and continued his partnership with Bonanno as a solider or captain(or he was, and was killed regardless). There were other murders tied to the garment industry around the time, so his murder may have been part of something else happening behind the scenes.

____

The Gotti transcript reminds of this I found in the Magaddino files I posted:

[PolackTony]

From a 1967 report from the Ft Lauderdale PD, focused on LCN activities in FL. Hard to say what their source was that the consigliere was an elder member "emeritus" (maybe derived from intel on Tampa?):



Interesting to compare to the 1962 account from a CI in Salvatore Granello's file (also worth noting that the Fischettis were closely tied to Florida, so could be related to the FL report above):

[Manf]

Both Scarpa and DiLeonardo commented how it's rare for a consigliere to be murdered. Makes sense based on operating outside of the top-down hierarchy, some getting elected, and their role as mediator.

Like we've talked about, lot of questions as to why the two men ID'd by Bill Bonanno as early Bonanno consiglieri were both killed and if they held the rank at the time of their murder. If they were no longer in the position when they were killed, question is if they stepped down or Joe Bonanno influenced the captains/members to vote them out.

Bill said in his book the consigliere was so influential he could turn the membership against the boss if he wanted but didn't give examples -- can't think of any firsthand experience he had with that, but we can be sure he wasn't talking about Tartamella. The Italiano/Rappa situations may well have influenced that statement and could tell us why they were killed.

If I remember right Scarpa said this after Jimmy Angelino was killed for supposedly not stepping down as consigliere.

[scott22]

Regarding Detroit:

The Tocco-Zerilli crime family has always had a consigliere. I don't care what the indictments or charts put out by the feds say.

I've interviewed the REAL PEOPLE. They've given me the history THEMSELVES. Ive also interviewed the feds themselves and they dispute what their own office has put out in the past.

This is from interviews with: Tony Zerilli, Tony Palazzolo, Dom Bommarito, Frank Bommarito, Paulie Corrado, Nove Tocco, DET FBI OC UNIT HEADS (Oscar Feldman, Joe Finnigan, Lou Fischetti, etc.), among others.

NOTE: two of the above-mentioned names WERE consiglieres; Pal & Uncle Dom, one was an acting boss and a longtime underboss (Tony Z) and another was an acting capo (Frank the Bomb).

DET LCN CONSIGLIERE CHART
ANGELO MELI - 1931-1936
PAPA JOHN PRIZIOLA -- 1936-1977
JIMMY QUASARANO - 1977-1981
BIG MIKE POLIZZI - 1981-1996
TONY TOCCO -- 1996-2008
UNCLE DOM BOMMARITO - 2008-2014
TONY PALAZZOLO - 2014-2019
TONY RUGGIRELLO - 2019-2020
PETE TOCCO - 2020-PRESENT

SMB

[PolackTony]

Regarding Detroit:

The Tocco-Zerilli crime family has always had a consigliere. I don't care what the indictments or charts put out by the feds say.

I've interviewed the REAL PEOPLE. They've given me the history THEMSELVES. Ive also interviewed the feds themselves and they dispute what their own office has put out in the past.

This is from interviews with: Tony Zerilli, Tony Palazzolo, Dom Bommarito, Frank Bommarito, Paulie Corrado, Nove Tocco, DET FBI OC UNIT HEADS (Oscar Feldman, Joe Finnigan, Lou Fischetti, etc.), among others.

NOTE: two of the above-mentioned names WERE consiglieres; Pal & Uncle Dom, one was an acting boss and a longtime underboss (Tony Z) and another was an acting capo (Frank the Bomb).

DET LCN CONSIGLIERE CHART
ANGELO MELI - 1931-1936
PAPA JOHN PRIZIOLA -- 1936-1977
JIMMY QUASARANO - 1977-1981
BIG MIKE POLIZZI - 1981-1996
TONY TOCCO -- 1996-2008
UNCLE DOM BOMMARITO - 2008-2014
TONY PALAZZOLO - 2014-2019
TONY RUGGIRELLO - 2019-2020
PETE TOCCO - 2020-PRESENT

SMB

Thanks for this, Scott. Great info. In your interviews, did any of these guys indicate whether the Detroit consigliere was elected (whether by the capos or the entire family) or appointed by the boss? Could the boss demote them, or was the position in -- theory at least -- permanent?

Also, what is your take on Frank Bompensiero's claim here in 1967, regarding Joe Z potentially becoming a "consigliere of power" after stepping down as formal boss? Was a similar arrangement ever done with another boss, so far as you've heard?

[B.]

The Gotti transcript reminds of this I found in the Magaddino files I posted:

Yep, it's very close to what Gotti said. This was the second part where he says by temporarily changing the captains they could vote Gallo out:



Even if Gotti was kidding around, he's referring to something that comes up from multiple sources. Combined with what Scarpa said about the meeting with Ambrose Magliocco, captains would meet with members and form a concensus within crews, then captains would meet and form a concensus together.

Sources say Families used to have formal meetings of the entire membership where important matters were discussed and this went out of fashion due to LE pressure, so question is if the captains gained even more power over elections later. Bonanno talked about the entire Family attending the meeting where he was elected boss, so there would in theory be less room for manipulation if they counted votes all at one time rather than these individual meetings where the captain polled his soldiers as described by Scarpa.

Tony -- the second source was a Colombo associate. He knew a lot about the Colombo Family for a non-member and says some interesting things, though it seems he was throwing out a lot of random info about other Families. As always, I don't completely dismiss anyone's take (unless they're blatantly lying) as even if someone was under a certain impression (correct or otherwise) it can be compared/contrasted with other info and sometimes produce a new lead.

[scott22]

Polak Tony,

Joe Z stepped down temporarily in the late 1960s and gave his son Tony Z acting boss duties. So yes, the Bomp's info fits with what I know to b true.

Boss in Detroit always hand-picks consigliere, dating back to the 30s.

Papa John was Joe Z's consigliere, despite the FBI informants that described him as UB. Angelo Meli was Black Bill's guy. Meli was Joe z's underboss.

Jimmy Q, Big Mike, Tony T and Uncle Dom were all Jack Tocco guys.

SMB

[PolackTony]

Polak Tony,

Joe Z stepped down temporarily in the late 1960s and gave his son Tony Z acting boss duties. So yes, the Bomp's info fits with what I know to b true.

Boss in Detroit always hand-picks consigliere, dating back to the 30s.

Papa John was Joe Z's consigliere, despite the FBI informants that described him as UB. Angelo Meli was Black Bill's guy. Meli was Joe z's underboss.

Jimmy Q, Big Mike, Tony T and Uncle Dom were all Jack Tocco guys.

SMB

Thanks, Scott. Would you say that when a new boss came to power, he then took the prior boss's consig out from the position and put in his own guy?