Consigliere part 2 - Change from elected position to a rank that's boss appointed.

[Angelo Santino]

According to mafia mythos and rules, the consulyier was the only position aside from boss that was elected into the position, meaning his position would continue regardless of whether or not a changeover in whose boss occurred. But in more recent times we've seen it become another rank in the system- Scarfo 'chose' Nicky Buck, Gotti 'chose' Gravano, other examples I'm sure.

I guess what consigs do we know of that went through it the right way and what ones do we know that were just rank-fillers. And when?

For the Gambinos, I would argue that Joe N Gallo elected in the traditional fashion, whereas Gravano was selected, I've never seen him explore the politics or nuances revolving around him acquiring the position. He made a video recently saying it didn't matter whether he was consig or under and he may be right. But we historians would conclude that was a rather later change in the way the position functioned.

In traditional respects, the Under serves at the behest of the boss and Consig was independently voted. One could argue that the consig is more insulated than the under, yet Gravano considered going from consig to under as a promotion. It is what is and we can only observe.

We know that the boss' wish carried weight. If Gotti or Bonanno said their wishes were for DiLeonardo or Bill to have the position, that's an indirect order and to vote another way would likely risk sleeping in the dog house.

At some point this position went from an semi-autonomous elected position to a boss-appointed one, at least in some cases. There may be consigs today that have a semi-traditional position independent of the boss.

Thoughts?

[FriendofHenry]

Definitely a Boss appointed position for John LaRocca as he appointed Charles Imburgia aka. Charlie Murgie, Consigliere.

[PolackTony]

Any clear evidence on how Detroit selected consiglieri? If Bompensiero was right that Joe Z became a “consigliere of power”, presumably this was something neither elected nor appointed, but most likely a Ricca/Accardo-type role. But for other guys, has any info ever come out about how they were installed in the position for Detroit? I’m thinking that for families that were using a Consiglio/council set-up, this could complicate what we mean by “consigliere” as well. In some Sicilian accounts like Calderone, the rappresentante appointed 1-3 men to serve as consiglieri, but in US families with councils it’s unclear to me whether this was done, and I don’t see it as being likely that families were electing the several men who served on a council. Apologies if this veers too much away from discussion of the singular consigliere position.

[B.]

- Gentile said consigliere could be appointed back then and I think he said Milano appointed him. One of the Sicilian pentiti said it was elected in larger Families but appointed in smaller ones. Makes sense given larger Families have more complicated politics, but politics also allow for decisions to be manipulated.

- When Scarpa broke down the questionable election of Joe Magliocco, he said they also voted for the vacant consigliere position and though a member suggested one name, the captain argued the guy in question couldn't fulfill the duties because of age/unavailability or something along those lines and suggested another. Definitely a lot of room for a leader or powerful faction to fix the election that way without outright appointing someone. There seem to be legitimate elections and illegitimate ones, like with boss elections, and I'd guess many were a little of both.

- Magaddino said he specifically fought to not have a consigliere because it was elected and he felt if the boss was elected/approved by the members there shouldn't be another elected position to divide the power. Bill Bonanno added to this, saying the consigliere had so much potential influence he could manipulate the Family for any good/bad purpose. Bonanno also said traditionally the consigliere is usually the acting boss and the underboss isn't at all guaranteed to become a boss. Magaddino said Carlo Gambino was named acting boss when Anastasia died because he was the consigliere. I think Piscopo in LA said the new official boss was usually a captain and not the underboss when Licata got elected.

- Another interesting comment from Scarpa is he said consigliere is a one time only position -- once one steps down, he can never hold the title again. Wonder if that's traditionally a rule about rappresentante/boss too.

- It didn't used to be a "stepping stone" while climbing the ladder to underboss and it was seen as a more powerful position than underboss in many cases. Joe Massino said when he was promoted to underboss Rastelli told him he was making him "number three" and he understood that consigliere Cannone was "number two". Spero seems to have been the most powerful guy under Massino too. Rugnetta was def more powerful than Denaro in Philly and Bruno called Rugnetta the Calabrian "rappresentante".

- Consigliere is the most interesting position to me because it's intended to deal exclusively with the internal organization, not business/rackets (though if business/rackets cause a major dispute or issue among members it would become relevant). It ranges in power though and can be everything from an equal to the boss who greatly influences the Family to a subservient advisor who does little. Piscopo said it depended on the person holding the title. Joe Traina appears to have been consigliere and D'Aquila's acting capo dei capi which is an insane amount of power.

- By the 1980s you have guys like Casso and Gravano get named consigliere on their way to becoming underboss. When Gotti was recorded discussing where to put Gravano, it sounded like the ranks were arbitrary and he was willing to put Gravano wherever he wanted. Showed no consideration for who might better fit the traditional duties. I doubt a guy like Mazzone in Philly was the best fit either, seems like the Merlino guys just wanted to claim the titles. Scarfo seemed to do what he wanted, putting his older relatives in the spot.

Looks to me like there were always consiglieri who were appointed or influenced by the boss/leaders, but the biggest change was the type of guy who held the role and it becoming another rung on the ladder in some Families. I'd bet there are still guys who fit the traditional role, like that guy DiNapoli in the Luccheses seemed like a true consigliere in recent years. All of the Genovese ones too.

Lot to say about this rank because I think it's one of the most misunderstood pieces of the puzzle.

[B.]

That famous Philly wiretap also sheds light... Phil Testa, Scarfo, Riccobene, and Narducci are discussing candidates and they say the old timers are leaving them out of the process and would choose the candidate. Narducci complains that even though he's "capi" he isn't involved and Testa was the underboss so even high-ranking members felt left out.

They also ask Riccobene if he ever remembers more than one candidate in consigliere elections and he says "never", with the inference being it was predetermined. Riccobene was made in the 1920s so that's significant.

[CabriniGreen]

- Gentile said consigliere could be appointed back then and I think he said Milano appointed him. One of the Sicilian pentiti said it was elected in larger Families but appointed in smaller ones. Makes sense given larger Families have more complicated politics, but politics also allow for decisions to be manipulated.

- When Scarpa broke down the questionable election of Joe Magliocco, he said they also voted for the vacant consigliere position and though a member suggested one name, the captain argued the guy in question couldn't fulfill the duties because of age/unavailability or something along those lines and suggested another. Definitely a lot of room for a leader or powerful faction to fix the election that way without outright appointing someone. There seem to be legitimate elections and illegitimate ones, like with boss elections, and I'd guess many were a little of both.

- Magaddino said he specifically fought to not have a consigliere because it was elected and he felt if the boss was elected/approved by the members there shouldn't be another elected position to divide the power. Bill Bonanno added to this, saying the consigliere had so much potential influence he could manipulate the Family for any good/bad purpose. Bonanno also said traditionally the consigliere is usually the acting boss and the underboss isn't at all guaranteed to become a boss. Magaddino said Carlo Gambino was named acting boss when Anastasia died because he was the consigliere. I think Piscopo in LA said the new official boss was usually a captain and not the underboss when Licata got elected.

- Another interesting comment from Scarpa is he said consigliere is a one time only position -- once one steps down, he can never hold the title again. Wonder if that's traditionally a rule about rappresentante/boss too.

- It didn't used to be a "stepping stone" while climbing the ladder to underboss and it was seen as a more powerful position than underboss in many cases. Joe Massino said when he was promoted to underboss Rastelli told him he was making him "number three" and he understood that consigliere Cannone was "number two". Spero seems to have been the most powerful guy under Massino too. Rugnetta was def more powerful than Denaro in Philly and Bruno called Rugnetta the Calabrian "rappresentante".

- Consigliere is the most interesting position to me because it's intended to deal exclusively with the internal organization, not business/rackets (though if business/rackets cause a major dispute or issue among members it would become relevant). It ranges in power though and can be everything from an equal to the boss who greatly influences the Family to a subservient advisor who does little. Piscopo said it depended on the person holding the title. Joe Traina appears to have been consigliere and D'Aquila's acting capo dei capi which is an insane amount of power.

- By the 1980s you have guys like Casso and Gravano get named consigliere on their way to becoming underboss. When Gotti was recorded discussing where to put Gravano, it sounded like the ranks were arbitrary and he was willing to put Gravano wherever he wanted. Showed no consideration for who might better fit the traditional duties. I doubt a guy like Mazzone in Philly was the best fit either, seems like the Merlino guys just wanted to claim the titles. Scarfo seemed to do what he wanted, putting his older relatives in the spot.

Looks to me like there were always consiglieri who were appointed or influenced by the boss/leaders, but the biggest change was the type of guy who held the role and it becoming another rung on the ladder in some Families. I'd bet there are still guys who fit the traditional role, like that guy DiNapoli in the Luccheses seemed like a true consigliere in recent years. All of the Genovese ones too.

Lot to say about this rank because I think it's one of the most misunderstood pieces of the puzzle.

Do you think the turning gpoint might have been Bill Bonnanos appointment? All the politics involved there, and the huge ramifications that occured as a result?

[thekiduknow]

Massino testified that the boss and the consigliere were the two positions that were voted in. So it looks like the Bonannos elected consiglieri at least through Massino's reign.

[chin_gigante]

Peter Lovaglio testified that the consigliere position was elected by the entire membership, indicating the Bonannos still did this in the 2010s

[B.]

Buscetta is the one who said in smaller Sicilian Families the boss appoints "one or more" consiglieri, while in larger Families the consiglieri are elected:



Contrast Buscetta with Calderone, who says the consigliere is "always" elected by the membership. Maybe in Catania it was always elected. Buscetta was familiar with more nearby Families in Palermo.

Gentile via FBI:



Appointment vs. election doesn't seem to be a later American development. I'd say the consigliere's role becoming less important/defined is more a product of Americanization, i.e. perception that it's "number three" in the top down hierarchy.

Sal Vitale said the consigliere is supposed to be the one who announces the candidates during a boss election. I know Spero did this for Massino.

[nizarsoccer]

I think in recent times, both Zancocchio and DiMatteo were referred to as "number 3" in their respective Families. Acting captain Tarzia was recorded saying, "John [Zancocchio] is the number 3." DiMatteo was also referred by other members as the "number 3" guy in the Family.

[Adam]

Any clear evidence on how Detroit selected consiglieri? If Bompensiero was right that Joe Z became a “consigliere of power”, presumably this was something neither elected nor appointed, but most likely a Ricca/Accardo-type role. But for other guys, has any info ever come out about how they were installed in the position for Detroit? I’m thinking that for families that were using a Consiglio/council set-up, this could complicate what we mean by “consigliere” as well. In some Sicilian accounts like Calderone, the rappresentante appointed 1-3 men to serve as consiglieri, but in US families with councils it’s unclear to me whether this was done, and I don’t see it as being likely that families were electing the several men who served on a council. Apologies if this veers too much away from discussion of the singular consigliere position.

I'll just mention that no Detroit mobster has ever been labeled a consigliere in a trial. And in the 80s-90s the FBI never even listed that as a position Detroit had. I still cling to the idea that Detroit didn't really adhere to a formal hierarchy for everything like New York or other families did.

[PolackTony]

Buscetta is the one who said in smaller Sicilian Families the boss appoints "one or more" consiglieri, while in larger Families the consiglieri are elected:



Contrast Buscetta with Calderone, who says the consigliere is "always" elected by the membership. Maybe in Catania it was always elected. Buscetta was familiar with more nearby Families in Palermo.

Gentile via FBI:



Appointment vs. election doesn't seem to be a later American development. I'd say the consigliere's role becoming less important/defined is more a product of Americanization, i.e. perception that it's "number three" in the top down hierarchy.

Sal Vitale said the consigliere is supposed to be the one who announces the candidates during a boss election. I know Spero did this for Massino.

I had confused Buscetta’s account with Calderone’s. Yes, Calderone stated that the consigliere was elected by the entire family. He also states that the vice-rappresentante was appointed by the boss (and held no real power aside from acting as a sustitito) but then later claims that there were “many” cases where the underboss was elected. Given that Catania only had two families, presumably there was going to be a lot more diversity in how Palermo families handled these things.

I’ve tried to parse exactly what Calderone meant when referring to the “council” here. He seems to suggest that multiple consiglieri took part in the council, but then also seems to say that multiple rappresentanti took part. He’s definitely talking about a family, not a mandamento, so I wondered if he meant past rappresentanti took part on a family council. In regard to the Bonanno intel citing the consiglieri as announcing the candidate for boss, Calderone stated that the council appointed a “secretary” to propose candidates for boss.



Calderone’s account also underscores how the consigliere was not part of but was independent of the chain of command, very much unlike how the position evolved into a “number 3” in some US families.

[B.]

Maybe Calderone just meant representatives in the general sense as he's def talking within the Family.

Don't know who this informant was or which Family (seemingly NYC) but he says the consigliere was responsible for notifying other Families when a member died and was the most important position. We don't think of them repping the Family in business dealings unless there's a bigger issue going on. Maybe the informant said they handled high-level "business" in a general sense and threw out business/labor roles for comparison, or in this Family the guy did handle more business-related matters. The last part seems to refer more to political matters.



He was under the impression the consiglieri of different Families would come to a concensus among themselves and the bosses would follow suit, adding to other accounts of the position's power.

[thekiduknow]

That informant was NY-4336, who was a Bonanno member in the LES. He was described as "being close to the labor rackets", so it might not just be a random example. Sounds like he's saying the consigliere is a mediator among families, and not just an internal one.

Bill says that when he started taking over Tartamella's role, he was attending sit downs with other families, over both illegal and "legal" businesses. So maybe Tartamella functioned like that? Makes sense too if Bonanno is increasingly absent that Tartamella would deal with other families.

[B.]

Great info -- thanks man.

Definitely sounds like it could be involved more deeply in business affairs than other sources suggest, though they weren't the one supervising those matters they were involved in negotiating them. Bill Bonanno also said in the Bonanno Family the consigliere was responsible for maintaining the "war chest".

D'Arco also said the consigliere dealt heavily with other Families.