General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

The files do contradict each other, but they agree that Alderisio is not mentioned as a boss.

Good point, and as Snakes notes, the timeline doesn't really support Alderisio as boss (and I personally doubt they would actually put him in the position knowing he might be sent back to prison shortly).

I guess that the question remaining now is, were Battaglia and Cerone ever officially bosses?

I consider them acting bosses. With Battaglia, I think it was moreso the uncertainty regarding Giancana that prevented him from being official and with Cerone it was more of a general uncertainty concerning the boss position. Once it was clear that Sam was pretty much gone for good and Accardo had time to reorganize, they were finally able to name a permanent boss in Aiuppa.

I think that's right on point.

[Coloboy]

That Cleveland meeting was exactly what I was thinking of. Thanks Polack Tony

[Snakes]

Honestly, part of what appealed to me about the Outfit was the "grittier" nature of it, compared to the east coast families. Whether that is right or wrong, it just seemed to me like a more serious organization. Obviously, there are now tons of pictures out there of Outfit guys smiling and laughing, but that just belies the violence these people were capable of.

[PolackTony]

Honestly, part of what appealed to me about the Outfit was the "grittier" nature of it, compared to the east coast families. Whether that is right or wrong, it just seemed to me like a more serious organization. Obviously, there are now tons of pictures out there of Outfit guys smiling and laughing, but that just belies the violence these people were capable of.

They danced to the sound of trunk music.

[B.]

Something to keep in mind about a possible murder mandate is a guy can play any role in a murder and it "counts". A guy could be a lookout, drive a crash car or simply help with preparation, clean-up, or anything that contributed to a murder. The mafia tends to use the same standards for participation that LE uses when prosecuting.

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Re: Alderisio, Bompensiero told the FBI in June 1968 that he believed Alderisio was a "soldier" in Chicago.

There was also this information that came about when the disgruntled LA members were trying to get political support to oust Nick Licata:



If that's at all accurate, it sounds like Alderisio was used as a messenger/rep for the actual leadership which could have given the impression he himself was in a higher position of authority than he was.

[PolackTony]

Something to keep in mind about a possible murder mandate is a guy can play any role in a murder and it "counts". A guy could be a lookout, drive a crash car or simply help with preparation, clean-up, or anything that contributed to a murder. The mafia tends to use the same standards for participation that LE uses when prosecuting.

-

Re: Alderisio, Bompensiero told the FBI in June 1968 that he believed Alderisio was a "soldier" in Chicago.

There was also this information that came about when the disgruntled LA members were trying to get political support to oust Nick Licata:



If that's at all accurate, it sounds like Alderisio was used as a messenger/rep for the actual leadership which could have given the impression he himself was in a higher position of authority than he was.

Yes. There have been claims that Alderisio was the liaison to Milwaukee (hence the nickname), NYC, and (from one associate, a Jewish guy named Jack Gail), to the “boss” of Baltimore (presumably the Gambino captain there).

Good point about the expansive definition of taking part in a murder. In the case of the majority of Chicago members, they almost certainly got their hands wet directly (often many times over), though I’m sure that hits where they played a less direct role still counted towards their “resumes”.

[B.]

In 1969 the FBI also speculated that Alderisio might be acting as consigliere. Who knows what their basis was, as the wording shows they had no definitive info.

[Antiliar]

Despite the hype, Alderisio never rose above acting capo of the Battaglia crew. It fits with a story Red told (going by memory, so I could be off in a few details). In 1973 he was driving with Marshall Caifano and I guess they must have stopped at a pay phone to find out who was going to replace Battaglia, who recently died. Caifano was hoping for the job since he was the oldest active member. Instead it went to Lombardo. If Alderisio had been the actual capo the changeover would have occurred in 1971.

[PolackTony]

Despite the hype, Alderisio never rose above acting capo of the Battaglia crew. It fits with a story Red told (going by memory, so I could be off in a few details). In 1973 he was driving with Marshall Caifano and I guess they must have stopped at a pay phone to find out who was going to replace Battaglia, who recently died. Caifano was hoping for the job since he was the oldest active member. Instead it went to Lombardo. If Alderisio had been the actual capo the changeover would have occurred in 1971.

Red told me quite clearly that Lombardo succeeded Aldersio as capo in 1969 (he was specific when I queried him on that detail). Just pointing out that his story changes. He did tell me that Caifano was bitter about Lombardo getting the spot, as he felt that he was the one due for it.

Obviously, if Lombardo got the spot in 1973 then it was when Battaglia died, and as you stated, Alderisio was acting for Battaglia while the latter was imprisoned (fits Bompensiero's claim that Alderisio was a soldier). The question then is, who (if anyone) was acting after Alderisio was locked up? Maybe the acting role was vacant until they tapped Joey for it.

[PolackTony]

In 1969 the FBI also speculated that Alderisio might be acting as consigliere. Who knows what their basis was, as the wording shows they had no definitive info.

Highly doubtful. Even if we were to assume for the sake of argument that Chicago had an official consuleri position, the guys that exercised that, so far as we know, at least for decades have been former bosses. Ricca, Accardo. Or in Scott B's account, Lombardo after he was paroled, but at least he had been a capo. If there was consuleri in the "modern" (post-1940s) Outfit, it would seem to have gone to guys who were elder statesman no longer directly involved in the chain of command. Even though for the sake of argument and keeping an open mind I tend to allow for the possibility that they had access to intel that we still may not be aware of, I think the Feds were grasping at straws here.

[B.]

Yeah, Bomp's perception that Alderisio was a soldier fits closer to what Antiliar said -- that he was an acting captain whose authority came via specific duties carried out on behalf of Battaglia.

Bomp personally knew Alderisio and attended that meeting with Alderisio and Tony Giordano in Cicero so it wasn't just a name, but someone he personally interacted with during this period. He didn't attribute any rank one way or another to him after the meeting about the Teamsters loan which tells me his perception of Alderisio's rank didn't change.

[Antiliar]

Despite the hype, Alderisio never rose above acting capo of the Battaglia crew. It fits with a story Red told (going by memory, so I could be off in a few details). In 1973 he was driving with Marshall Caifano and I guess they must have stopped at a pay phone to find out who was going to replace Battaglia, who recently died. Caifano was hoping for the job since he was the oldest active member. Instead it went to Lombardo. If Alderisio had been the actual capo the changeover would have occurred in 1971.

Red told me quite clearly that Lombardo succeeded Aldersio as capo in 1969 (he was specific when I queried him on that detail). Just pointing out that his story changes. He did tell me that Caifano was bitter about Lombardo getting the spot, as he felt that he was the one due for it.

Obviously, if Lombardo got the spot in 1973 then it was when Battaglia died, and as you stated, Alderisio was acting for Battaglia while the latter was imprisoned (fits Bompensiero's claim that Alderisio was a soldier). The question then is, who (if anyone) was acting after Alderisio was locked up? Maybe the acting role was vacant until they tapped Joey for it.

I think Nicoletti was running the crew in an acting capacity before Lombardo was promoted. One file said he was running Melrose Park with Nick Palermo for a little while. Nicoletti did something that made him fall out of favor.

[PolackTony]

Despite the hype, Alderisio never rose above acting capo of the Battaglia crew. It fits with a story Red told (going by memory, so I could be off in a few details). In 1973 he was driving with Marshall Caifano and I guess they must have stopped at a pay phone to find out who was going to replace Battaglia, who recently died. Caifano was hoping for the job since he was the oldest active member. Instead it went to Lombardo. If Alderisio had been the actual capo the changeover would have occurred in 1971.

Red told me quite clearly that Lombardo succeeded Aldersio as capo in 1969 (he was specific when I queried him on that detail). Just pointing out that his story changes. He did tell me that Caifano was bitter about Lombardo getting the spot, as he felt that he was the one due for it.

Obviously, if Lombardo got the spot in 1973 then it was when Battaglia died, and as you stated, Alderisio was acting for Battaglia while the latter was imprisoned (fits Bompensiero's claim that Alderisio was a soldier). The question then is, who (if anyone) was acting after Alderisio was locked up? Maybe the acting role was vacant until they tapped Joey for it.

I think Nicoletti was running the crew in an acting capacity before Lombardo was promoted. One file said he was running Melrose Park with Nick Palermo for a little while. Nicoletti did something that made him fall out of favor.

That’s my guess also. And whatever it was that precipitated Nicoletti’s decline, they seem to have cut him out or shelved him, as there are indications they took his operations away (CI that claimed all of Nicoletti’s business had been shut down or stripped from him in the 70s).

[davidf1989]

Yeah, Bomp's perception that Alderisio was a soldier fits closer to what Antiliar said -- that he was an acting captain whose authority came via specific duties carried out on behalf of Battaglia.

Bomp personally knew Alderisio and attended that meeting with Alderisio and Tony Giordano in Cicero so it wasn't just a name, but someone he personally interacted with during this period. He didn't attribute any rank one way or another to him after the meeting about the Teamsters loan which tells me his perception of Alderisio's rank didn't change.

So was Bomp was a valuable informant with his ties to Chicago, Joe Bonnano and the L.A crime family?

[Antiliar]

He was a very valuable informant.