General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Snakes]

Can you confirm what neighborhood Pat Marcy was from Snakes?

I can -- I'll have to check my files when I get a chance.

[PolackTony]

Can you confirm what neighborhood Pat Marcy was from Snakes?

Not to step over Snakes.

When Gennaro Marciano (Patsy's father) arrived in Chicago from Napoli in 1909, he listed his cousin Antonio Marciano as already living on Ewing St (Polk). Pat was born in 1913, and in 1917 and 1920 the family lived at McAllister (Lexington) and Ada (next to Arrigo park today). In 1930, the Marcianos lived at Harrison and Racine. In 1940, Pat Marciano was living around the corner at Vernon Park and Racine with his wife Catherine (occupation listed as Cook County Highway Department). So all Taylor St patch.

FWIW, there were comparatively few Napulitan' in Chinatown, which was predominately Sicilian and Calabres'. Napulitan' were of course strongly concentrated in the Westside neighborhoods.

[Antiliar]

Donald Angelini rap sheet

Angelini, Donald - Rap Sheet.jpg

[PolackTony]

Donald Angelini rap sheet
Angelini, Donald - Rap Sheet.jpg

Good info. I think it's a strong bet that Angelini was an exception to the rule here, as Snakes already stated. Another one could have been Fred Roti (not sure if he had an arrest record), who may have been grandfathered in based on Bruno Roti's stature (in addition to his political utility).

[SolarSolano]

Donald Angelini rap sheet
Angelini, Donald - Rap Sheet.jpg

My assumption is that this isn't showing his juvenile record if its essentially starting in the early 40s right? I'm not saying these guys were killers as teens, but they were tough fucking kids who were often violent.

I agree there were racketeers and gangsters in the Outfit - and Angelini was certainly the former - but I often wonder if these gentlemen racketeers were violent teens - most came from poverty and lived in ghettos and joined gangs.

[SolarSolano]

Can you confirm what neighborhood Pat Marcy was from Snakes?

Not to step over Snakes.

When Gennaro Marciano (Patsy's father) arrived in Chicago from Napoli in 1909, he listed his cousin Antonio Marciano as already living on Ewing St (Polk). Pat was born in 1913, and in 1917 and 1920 the family lived at McAllister (Lexington) and Ada (next to Arrigo park today). In 1930, the Marcianos lived at Harrison and Racine. In 1940, Pat Marciano was living around the corner at Vernon Park and Racine with his wife Catherine (occupation listed as Cook County Highway Department). So all Taylor St patch.

FWIW, there were comparatively few Napulitan' in Chinatown, which was predominately Sicilian and Calabres'. Napulitan' were of course strongly concentrated in the Westside neighborhoods.

Great info buddy - thank you. Do you know if Strongy Ferraro was also Neopolitan? I know the LaMantia's and Caruso's are Sicilian (Termini) so interesting.

[PolackTony]

Donald Angelini rap sheet
Angelini, Donald - Rap Sheet.jpg

My assumption is that this isn't showing his juvenile record if its essentially starting in the early 40s right? I'm not saying these guys were killers as teens, but they were tough fucking kids who were often violent.

I agree there were racketeers and gangsters in the Outfit - and Angelini was certainly the former - but I often wonder if these gentlemen racketeers were violent teens - most came from poverty and lived in ghettos and joined gangs.

Well, even if Angelini wasn't a violent gangbanger as a kid (maybe he was, I dunno), I would assume that he was a "tough guy" still, in a general sense. It was a tough environment. But I could see someone like him not necessarily having committed a murder in order to qualify for membership.

[PolackTony]

Can you confirm what neighborhood Pat Marcy was from Snakes?

Not to step over Snakes.

When Gennaro Marciano (Patsy's father) arrived in Chicago from Napoli in 1909, he listed his cousin Antonio Marciano as already living on Ewing St (Polk). Pat was born in 1913, and in 1917 and 1920 the family lived at McAllister (Lexington) and Ada (next to Arrigo park today). In 1930, the Marcianos lived at Harrison and Racine. In 1940, Pat Marciano was living around the corner at Vernon Park and Racine with his wife Catherine (occupation listed as Cook County Highway Department). So all Taylor St patch.

FWIW, there were comparatively few Napulitan' in Chinatown, which was predominately Sicilian and Calabres'. Napulitan' were of course strongly concentrated in the Westside neighborhoods.

Great info buddy - thank you. Do you know if Strongy Ferraro was also Neopolitan? I know the LaMantia's and Caruso's are Sicilian (Termini) so interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8376&p=216545&hili ... no#p216545

Majority of the Chinatown guys were either Sicilian or Calabres' (a partial exception was Shorty LaMantia, whose mother was from Ricigliano, Salerno, Vito Genovese's hometown). Going back to the early years, we see names like Cardinale (Agrigento province) and the Vinci brothers (Calabresi) associated with the area. Even the Calabrese bros were/are half-Sicilian, but of course, they were Grand Ave kids.

[SolarSolano]

Donald Angelini rap sheet
Angelini, Donald - Rap Sheet.jpg

My assumption is that this isn't showing his juvenile record if its essentially starting in the early 40s right? I'm not saying these guys were killers as teens, but they were tough fucking kids who were often violent.

I agree there were racketeers and gangsters in the Outfit - and Angelini was certainly the former - but I often wonder if these gentlemen racketeers were violent teens - most came from poverty and lived in ghettos and joined gangs.

Well, even if Angelini wasn't a violent gangbanger as a kid (maybe he was, I dunno), I would assume that he was a "tough guy" still, in a general sense. It was a tough environment. But I could see someone like him not necessarily having committed a murder in order to qualify for membership.

I always wondered if Pileggi kind of mixed Angelini into Rosenthal when creating the character of Ace Rothstein. I think Angelini was the real wizard of odds - I think Rosenthal wasn't necessarily on his level.

[Snakes]

Just checked and Marcy's only legal run-in before his 1990 indictment was in 1932 for burglary, when he was nineteen years old. He served an unspecified amount of time in state prison for that offense.

[Snakes]

Similar to Angelini, Cortina's arrest record only consists of gambling-related offenses.

[Antiliar]

Changing the subject, I was looking for contemporary support for Phil Alderisio as the boss after Battaglia. Roemer wrote that he was the Outfit boss from 1967 to 1969, then Cerone for a few months. Contemporary FBI documents, however, report that Ricca and Accardo took control and the pair retained control until Ricca died in 1972. I couldn't find a single CONTEMPORARY document in the Mary Ferrell site. Alderisio's FBI file doesn't help since it's redacted all useful information. So I'm wondering if this is a myth Roemer helped create or if there's documentation that I missed.

[Snakes]

Changing the subject, I was looking for contemporary support for Phil Alderisio as the boss after Battaglia. Roemer wrote that he was the Outfit boss from 1967 to 1969, then Cerone for a few months. Contemporary FBI documents, however, report that Ricca and Accardo took control and the pair retained control until Ricca died in 1972. I couldn't find a single CONTEMPORARY document in the Mary Ferrell site. Alderisio's FBI file doesn't help since it's redacted all useful information. So I'm wondering if this is a myth Roemer helped create or if there's documentation that I missed.

Yes, agreed. The timeline doesn't really add up, either. Cerone was acting boss in 1967 and indicted in 1969, although he was not imprisoned until after his conviction in 1970. Alderisio had already been convicted of extortion in Denver in 1965 and was out on bond awaiting sentencing appeal when he was convicted and imprisoned in 1970 for defrauding a federal bank. There just doesn't seem to be any time where Alderisio could have conceivably slotted into the boss position.

[Antiliar]

FWIW, Vincent Inserra in his book C-1 and The Mob also says that Alderisio headed the Outfit. I'll go thru Cerone's file and see what comes up.

[PolackTony]

Changing the subject, I was looking for contemporary support for Phil Alderisio as the boss after Battaglia. Roemer wrote that he was the Outfit boss from 1967 to 1969, then Cerone for a few months. Contemporary FBI documents, however, report that Ricca and Accardo took control and the pair retained control until Ricca died in 1972. I couldn't find a single CONTEMPORARY document in the Mary Ferrell site. Alderisio's FBI file doesn't help since it's redacted all useful information. So I'm wondering if this is a myth Roemer helped create or if there's documentation that I missed.

Yes, agreed. The timeline doesn't really add up, either. Cerone was acting boss in 1967 and indicted in 1969, although he was not imprisoned until after his conviction in 1970. Alderisio had already been convicted of extortion in Denver in 1965 and was out on bond awaiting sentencing appeal when he was convicted and imprisoned in 1970 for defrauding a federal bank. There just doesn't seem to be any time where Alderisio could have conceivably slotted into the boss position.

Given that Alderisio was out on appeal and possibly going to be reincarcerated on the extortion case, hard to imagine that the Outfit would have him as official boss during that period. Possible that him and Cerone were acting/provisional under Ricca/Accardo. Or could just be that Ricca/Accardo were acting as interim bosses the whole time.

It’s a good question to revisit, especially if the only real source here is Roemer.