General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Tonyd621]

Marshall "cuckold" caifano

[B.]

Something that crossed my mind last week when I was going through a lot of Chicago info...

- They weren't as Italian-centric as other groups on an operational level and were primarily concerned with money in their daily lives, but maybe too the reason we don't get many non-member informants and bugs with insight into the formal organization is because they were actually disciplined about it.

- Ross Prio and a senior member tactfully whispered to each other when simply talking about how a fellow member was an "avugad" (whatever that is in Chicago) in the exact same spot where they discussed criminal activity at full volume. In NYC or NJ, that same conversation might have gone "Hey, they made Joe an avugad. When did he get made? I think it was about 5 years ago. Did you know his father was an amico nostra too, back when Lenny was the rappresentante?" In Chicago's violent atmosphere, maybe some members actually feared the oath rather than disregarded it like people have assumed.

- It's funny that we're so used to guys in other cities gossiping about the org that we think lack of talk = lack of respect for the formalities, when it's an organization that's supposed to enforce its secrecy through violence. Could just as well take the opposite interpretation, that many of the made members in Chicago didn't talk much about it because they took that side of it seriously and feared doing so during the organization's peak.

- I've read about a lot of Families and very little phases me, but the Chicago group comes across more ominous and genuinely terrifying than any other. It's like they had a bunch of Greg Scarpas who never ratted. The way Nick Calabrese described his induction, you get the feeling those same guys in the room wouldn't hesitate to kill him right then and there for wincing when they pinched his finger. Just look at the Spilotro brothers murder -- they lured them there on formal grounds and the new generation of leaders wanted to fucking be there to participate in the horrific and primal "unmaking" of Spilotro. Then they killed the guy who disposed of the bodies when they got found. Frank Calabrese told his brother he was sad he wasn't included in the murders. It's like the Spilotro murder was a sacred ritual unto itself that tells us more about the organization's psychology than an actual making ceremony.

Spilotro trying to say a prayer too -- it's like he knew he was dealing with Satan in the flesh. This group didn't become that way overnight.

[PolackTony]

Something that crossed my mind last week when I was going through a lot of Chicago info...

My opinion is the same. Chicago was very secretive regarding the formal mafia organization and kept it very closely guarded. And they would kill you for practically anything, so I assume these guys had the fear of God in them when it came to talking about the family. Chicago was as hardcore as the American mafia got. When I read Nick C’s testimony regarding his ceremony, I get the strong feeling of stepping into something dark, mysterious, and sinister.

The Spilotro prayer thing has always stood out to me too. Gives me the chills. Same as Capone’s gravestone, which says it all:

[B.]

Antiliar -- per our conversation tonight about SAC Hegarty's use of "Rappresentandu Ufficiale", in addition to Angelo Bruno using "rappresentante officiale" another source who used it was Nicola Gentile describing Ciccio Milano of Cleveland in his memoir. The FBI carried it over to their summary of his info:



Still not sure where else Hegarty's dialect version shows up -- it's possible the phonetic FBI interpretations that say "rappresentando" in various files were pronounced with more of a "u" sound but hard to say without having heard them. I've never seen the FBI document any of these terms with a "u" though.

More recent Sicilian pentito Giuffre of Caccamo used the term "accompagnatore ufficiale" (official escort) to describe some kind of role previously held by another member and later held by Giuffre. Doesn't seem to be a rank but someone who is chosen to accompany the boss, probably a glorified driver/assistant.

[davidf1989]

Something that crossed my mind last week when I was going through a lot of Chicago info...

- They weren't as Italian-centric as other groups on an operational level and were primarily concerned with money in their daily lives, but maybe too the reason we don't get many non-member informants and bugs with insight into the formal organization is because they were actually disciplined about it.

- Ross Prio and a senior member tactfully whispered to each other when simply talking about how a fellow member was an "avugad" (whatever that is in Chicago) in the exact same spot where they discussed criminal activity at full volume. In NYC or NJ, that same conversation might have gone "Hey, they made Joe an avugad. When did he get made? I think it was about 5 years ago. Did you know his father was an amico nostra too, back when Lenny was the rappresentante?" In Chicago's violent atmosphere, maybe some members actually feared the oath rather than disregarded it like people have assumed.

- It's funny that we're so used to guys in other cities gossiping about the org that we think lack of talk = lack of respect for the formalities, when it's an organization that's supposed to enforce its secrecy through violence. Could just as well take the opposite interpretation, that many of the made members in Chicago didn't talk much about it because they took that side of it seriously and feared doing so during the organization's peak.

- I've read about a lot of Families and very little phases me, but the Chicago group comes across more ominous and genuinely terrifying than any other. It's like they had a bunch of Greg Scarpas who never ratted. The way Nick Calabrese described his induction, you get the feeling those same guys in the room wouldn't hesitate to kill him right then and there for wincing when they pinched his finger. Just look at the Spilotro brothers murder -- they lured them there on formal grounds and the new generation of leaders wanted to fucking be there to participate in the horrific and primal "unmaking" of Spilotro. Then they killed the guy who disposed of the bodies when they got found. Frank Calabrese told his brother he was sad he wasn't included in the murders. It's like the Spilotro murder was a sacred ritual unto itself that tells us more about the organization's psychology than an actual making ceremony.

Spilotro trying to say a prayer too -- it's like he knew he was dealing with Satan in the flesh. This group didn't become that way overnight.

The Chicago Outfit had a vicious reputation with killers such as Frank the German Schweihs, Joey the Clown Lombardo and Mad Sam Destefano backing them up.

Spilotro and Destefano were believed to have been involved in the M and M Murders and in murdering Action Jackson according to the article below.

https://www.oakpark.com/2007/08/14/deta ... mob-trial/

[B.]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

[Snakes]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

I could see some of the guys with high connections (politicians) or those that made tons of money in a specialized area (Angelini, for example) as not being involved in a murder, but they seem to be exceptions to the rule.

[SolarSolano]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

I could see some of the guys with high connections (politicians) or those that made tons of money in a specialized area (Angelini, for example) as not being involved in a murder, but they seem to be exceptions to the rule.

I honestly think some of the oldtimer Outfit politicians like Aducci and Marzullo were probably violent as kids and teens - they were in criminal gangs in the neighborhood alongside the Outfit up and comers and its not out of the question these guys did heavier work as kids. I've been told by a bookie that it was a bit of a myth that one can just book and not get into the violence - they go hand in hand. I think Joe Spa, Angelini and Cortina and some of these more 'gentlemanly' gambler types in the Outfit were probably just as stone cold as the rest of them - albeit, smarter.

[funkster]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

I could see some of the guys with high connections (politicians) or those that made tons of money in a specialized area (Angelini, for example) as not being involved in a murder, but they seem to be exceptions to the rule.

I honestly think some of the oldtimer Outfit politicians like Aducci and Marzullo were probably violent as kids and teens - they were in criminal gangs in the neighborhood alongside the Outfit up and comers and its not out of the question these guys did heavier work as kids. I've been told by a bookie that it was a bit of a myth that one can just book and not get into the violence - they go hand in hand. I think Joe Spa, Angelini and Cortina and some of these more 'gentlemanly' gambler types in the Outfit were probably just as stone cold as the rest of them - albeit, smarter.

I one hundred percent could see Pat Marcy being violent as well.

[Snakes]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

I could see some of the guys with high connections (politicians) or those that made tons of money in a specialized area (Angelini, for example) as not being involved in a murder, but they seem to be exceptions to the rule.

I honestly think some of the oldtimer Outfit politicians like Aducci and Marzullo were probably violent as kids and teens - they were in criminal gangs in the neighborhood alongside the Outfit up and comers and its not out of the question these guys did heavier work as kids. I've been told by a bookie that it was a bit of a myth that one can just book and not get into the violence - they go hand in hand. I think Joe Spa, Angelini and Cortina and some of these more 'gentlemanly' gambler types in the Outfit were probably just as stone cold as the rest of them - albeit, smarter.

I one hundred percent could see Pat Marcy being violent as well.

I have Marcy's criminal record somewhere. I'll dig it up and post it. Not too many violent crimes, but I may be misremembering. Almost all of these guys were arrested for beatings or assault when younger -- basic training for murder later on in life. I seriously believe guys like Angelini (who basically booked his entire life) may not have been involved with violence simply because they were such cash cows that the Outfit didn't need them to. But again, these were very few and far between.

[SolarSolano]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

I could see some of the guys with high connections (politicians) or those that made tons of money in a specialized area (Angelini, for example) as not being involved in a murder, but they seem to be exceptions to the rule.

I honestly think some of the oldtimer Outfit politicians like Aducci and Marzullo were probably violent as kids and teens - they were in criminal gangs in the neighborhood alongside the Outfit up and comers and its not out of the question these guys did heavier work as kids. I've been told by a bookie that it was a bit of a myth that one can just book and not get into the violence - they go hand in hand. I think Joe Spa, Angelini and Cortina and some of these more 'gentlemanly' gambler types in the Outfit were probably just as stone cold as the rest of them - albeit, smarter.

I one hundred percent could see Pat Marcy being violent as well.

I have Marcy's criminal record somewhere. I'll dig it up and post it. Not too many violent crimes, but I may be misremembering. Almost all of these guys were arrested for beatings or assault when younger -- basic training for murder later on in life. I seriously believe guys like Angelini (who basically booked his entire life) may not have been involved with violence simply because they were such cash cows that the Outfit didn't need them to. But again, these were very few and far between.

Didn't Marcy grow up with Gussie Alex, Skids Caruso and Strongy Ferraro on the south side? I've read he was a 42 but I think that is false and he was raised on Wentworth. I may be wrong however.

I would probably defer to you Snakes - you know more about these guys. I just think Angelini like a lot of bookies in those days - wasn't always honest and probably put a lot of degenerates into an early grave simply by continuing to feed their addition and beat them broke. He would also likely introduce guys right into juice - and that was often a death sentence.

[Snakes]

Frank Calabrese told his son every member had to commit a murder before being inducted. Easy to imagine most did but wonder about the politicians.

I could see some of the guys with high connections (politicians) or those that made tons of money in a specialized area (Angelini, for example) as not being involved in a murder, but they seem to be exceptions to the rule.

I honestly think some of the oldtimer Outfit politicians like Aducci and Marzullo were probably violent as kids and teens - they were in criminal gangs in the neighborhood alongside the Outfit up and comers and its not out of the question these guys did heavier work as kids. I've been told by a bookie that it was a bit of a myth that one can just book and not get into the violence - they go hand in hand. I think Joe Spa, Angelini and Cortina and some of these more 'gentlemanly' gambler types in the Outfit were probably just as stone cold as the rest of them - albeit, smarter.

I one hundred percent could see Pat Marcy being violent as well.

I have Marcy's criminal record somewhere. I'll dig it up and post it. Not too many violent crimes, but I may be misremembering. Almost all of these guys were arrested for beatings or assault when younger -- basic training for murder later on in life. I seriously believe guys like Angelini (who basically booked his entire life) may not have been involved with violence simply because they were such cash cows that the Outfit didn't need them to. But again, these were very few and far between.

Didn't Marcy grow up with Gussie Alex, Skids Caruso and Strongy Ferraro on the south side? I've read he was a 42 but I think that is false and he was raised on Wentworth. I may be wrong however.

I would probably defer to you Snakes - you know more about these guys. I just think Angelini like a lot of bookies in those days - wasn't always honest and probably put a lot of degenerates into an early grave simply by continuing to feed their addition and beat them broke. He would also likely introduce guys right into juice - and that was often a death sentence.

Oh yeah, for sure. By being a member, Angelini was indirectly responsible for violence inflicted by others. Guys like Hal Smith were murdered because they offered competition to Angelini's business and refused to pay street taxes to the Outfit.

I also have Cortina's criminal record somewhere, too. I don't remember him having too much violence on his record.

[SolarSolano]

Can you confirm what neighborhood Pat Marcy was from Snakes?

[funkster]

Looks like a member of the Palermo family has posted a few pics in the fb group of Tony Centracchio i've never seen...one of him older that I'm fairly certain hasn't been passed around. Also one that from the 80s in a members only jacket that looks familiar, but not super common.

[Snakes]

Looks like a member of the Palermo family has posted a few pics in the fb group of Tony Centracchio i've never seen...one of him older that I'm fairly certain hasn't been passed around. Also one that from the 80s in a members only jacket that looks familiar, but not super common.

Cool -- the one with the jacket has been posted before. Not sure about the older one. There is a pic of him after he was indicted (not a mug or anything, just him leaving a preliminary hearing or something), so I'd have to see it to know if it's the same.