Chicago outfit viciousness

[Luca]

I just read back to back Bill Roemer’s books on the outfit. “Accardo, genuine Godfather” and “The enforcer” which is a Tony Spilatro biography. Both are interesting reads. What stands out to me is the over the top violence the outfit utilized. Roemer discuses different torture sessions the outfit was involved with. Also some of the murders were particularly gruesome, stabbing, throats slit, car bombs, beating people to death, etc. I also got the impression that the Chicago bosses were often very hands on when it came to violence. So for the sake of discussion….do you think these stories about Mad Sam and these guys torturing victims are true or embellished? Is Chicago the most violent family? Is Joey Aiuppa the most deadly boss in history? Just curious…any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Antiliar]

I think the stories are mostly true, at least when it comes to torture. Can't say who's number one since most of them were pretty vicious. Aiuppa had a reputation as kill first and ask questions later, but there's no way to quantify.

[davidf1989]

Tony Spilotro and his brother Michael were beaten to death in a basement by Outfit hitmen including Nicholas Calabrese who would end up cooperating. I think that Aiuppa sanctioned that.

When Tony Accardo's house was burgled he had the burglars killed in brutal ways according to the article below.

https://gangstersinc.org/profiles/blogs ... -fuck-with

[Little_Al1991]

How many murders has Joey Aiuppa been linked to?

[Snakes]

How many murders has Joey Aiuppa been linked to?

Basically any major Chicago murder from the early-seventies to the mid-eighties. 50 or more at the most conservative estimate. He wasn't officially linked to all of them, but he had to sign off on many of them.

[SolarSolano]

I think the Outfit has had more higher-profile guys essentially tortured and executed in a quite brutal method than any other crime family I can think of - these guys were not just shot in the head and made to disappear, they wound up in car trunks covered in ice pick scars with throats slit, etc. Guys like Spilotro, Campise, Gattuso, Petrocelli, etc. - these were powerful, made guys. I just don't see that happening on the east coast. Chicago guys were always more brutal.

I would also add I think the Outfit is the only family in modern history to essentially have a capo from every crew participating in a brutal double murder - the Spilotros.

[Stopflexing]

The Action Jackson murder was the most brutal. I only found out recently that he used to rape the wives or girlfriends of guys who owed money. He was a real sicko too. I always thought he was just some poor fat guy who got caught up in some wrong info, so I guess his murder fit his crime

[Pogo The Clown]

Brings to mind how Mario Puzo portrayed the Chicago mob in The Godfather. In the book the other families considered Chicago to be mad dogs who they had given up trying to civilize. As a result they weren't invited to the big meeting of all the families in the country. The Godfather was written in the late 1960s so it seems that even then the Outfit had a reputation for extreme violence and brutality among mob watchers.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Brings to mind how Mario Puzo portrayed the Chicago mob in The Godfather. In the book the other families considered Chicago to be mad dogs who they had given up trying to civilize. As a result they weren't invited to the big meeting of all the families in the country. The Godfather was written in the late 1960s so it seems that even then the Outfit had a reputation for extreme violence and brutality among mob watchers.


Pogo

"Those animals in Chicago".

[Ivan]

I would also add I think the Outfit is the only family in modern history to essentially have a capo from every crew participating in a brutal double murder - the Spilotros.

This was an incredibly stupid thing to do IMHO, as Lombardo, Calabrese, and even Marcello (whose link to the killing, if memory serves, was a witness saying "a guy on the phone sounded like him") would find out the hard way.

[Antiliar]

In New York the police and politicians were considered off-limits, but they killed a number of them in Chicago. Bombs were off-limits in New York (with very rare exceptions like the Paul Castellano murder), but were used a number of times by Chicago guys going back to the infamous Pineapple Primary in 1928. You definitely didn't want to mess with the Outfit.

[SolarSolano]

I would also add I think the Outfit is the only family in modern history to essentially have a capo from every crew participating in a brutal double murder - the Spilotros.

This was an incredibly stupid thing to do IMHO, as Lombardo, Calabrese, and even Marcello (whose link to the killing, if memory serves, was a witness saying "a guy on the phone sounded like him") would find out the hard way.

I think it actually speaks to how well trusted and insulated Chicago really was - not a single person was convicted of this 1986 murder until literally 20 years later. That is really saying something from my view - never would have happened on the east coast, too many informants.

[PolackTony]

I would also add I think the Outfit is the only family in modern history to essentially have a capo from every crew participating in a brutal double murder - the Spilotros.

This was an incredibly stupid thing to do IMHO, as Lombardo, Calabrese, and even Marcello (whose link to the killing, if memory serves, was a witness saying "a guy on the phone sounded like him") would find out the hard way.

I think it actually speaks to how well trusted and insulated Chicago really was - not a single person was convicted of this 1986 murder until literally 20 years later. That is really saying something from my view - never would have happened on the east coast, too many informants.

Not to mention Bananas, who was never charged (whatever happened there...)

[PolackTony]

In New York the police and politicians were considered off-limits, but they killed a number of them in Chicago. Bombs were off-limits in New York (with very rare exceptions like the Paul Castellano murder), but were used a number of times by Chicago guys going back to the infamous Pineapple Primary in 1928. You definitely didn't want to mess with the Outfit.

This.

Apart from the personal character of Chicago members and the highly criminal-based networks through which members were recruited, I think another major factor for the comparatively flagrant exercise of brutal violence in Chicago was the high level of penetration that the Outfit had in police departments and the Cook County court system. Not that they had the level of protection where they could kill a guy in broad daylight on Michigan Ave and get away with it (the system had its limits), but they had major influence over the exercise of law enforcement and corruption in the judicial system. Raimondo Catanzaro wrote of a similar dynamic in 19th century Sicily, where "honor" accrued to mafiosi not only from the exercise of violence to get what they wanted, but even more so when they were able to repeatedly get away with it due to "friends" in high places.

They were also a comparatively small family in total number of members but controlled a vast set of criminal networks in a huge metropolitan area (as well as operations further afield). In order to manage this "syndicate" and keep the hordes of degenerate criminals who served them or were subjugated to them in line, a lot of violence was necessary. The brutality of the violence certainly would serve an instrumental role in sending a clear message to the hoods and hustlers as to what would they could expect to happen if they got out of line. This is not to downplay the truly vicious character of many of the members (e.g., the tape with Buccieri and Cerone gleefully recounting the Jackson thing), but to say that the brutality was not solely due to individual/psychological factors.

[Snakes]

Angelo Lonardo testified that Jack Cerone told him that they (Chicago) would kill a guy every week to keep people "in line."