Gambino 1870-2014
Moderator: Capos
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
New York Herald, 17 Jan 1896, on Taranto and Bettini:
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PolackTony
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Nice find. One of the suspects apparently also fled to Chicago (“Sherro”).
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
If it's true Taranto is Messinese like Bettini, how does that change your perception of his rank? You guys were very rational in your article and didn't get ahead of yourselves, but if he was Messinese it does reframe things.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
It doesn't alter anything for me. It was Chief Hazen of the Secret Service who concluded that Taranto was the "Supreme Head" of the American Mafia after examining all his letters. Taranto apparently had authority over groups in New York, Brooklyn, Baltimore, Pennsylvania and Chicago. Two of their top lieutenants came from Palermo - Frank Di Gregoli and Joseph Giordano.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Interesting also that the Taranto crowd was linked to a Boston group of counterfeiters, most of them also coming from Messina. The Boston group in turn connected with a group of San Francisco counterfeiters, most of them coming from Cattolica… Vincenzo Trapani, of SF’s Rosario Meli’s group, also hung out with the SF counterfeiters… I suspect both the Boston and San Francisco groups to have been Mafiosi.
CC - LaGaipa was actually identified at the time of the 1924 counterfeiting case as a member of the “Aguila” group. Most likely the informant meant D’Aquila.
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CC - LaGaipa was actually identified at the time of the 1924 counterfeiting case as a member of the “Aguila” group. Most likely the informant meant D’Aquila.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Awedome, interesting. I based my info off of Gentile and the SS and didnt recall ever seeing him confirmed as amico nos, but leave it to you to find it. My hat comes off.lennert wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:21 pm Interesting also that the Taranto crowd was linked to a Boston group of counterfeiters, most of them also coming from Messina. The Boston group in turn connected with a group of San Francisco counterfeiters, most of them coming from Cattolica… Vincenzo Trapani, of SF’s Rosario Meli’s group, also hung out with the SF counterfeiters… I suspect both the Boston and San Francisco groups to have been Mafiosi.
CC - LaGaipa was actually identified at the time of the 1924 counterfeiting case as a member of the “Aguila” group. Most likely the informant meant D’Aquila.
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Going back to B., I know your head is going to how Taranto's roots factor into things and I cant wait to hear it.
My opinion is the same as Rick's in that nothing changes in what we wrote because we only wrote what could be documented. If we had Balsamo'd it we'd be cowering right now because our article laid out a dialogue of Taranto being born in Palermo and married to D'Aquila's aunt who sent people to organize families in other cities but we didnt. I'll admit I thought he was Palermitan and would have betted on it. I was wrong.
So IF (the SS was correct) and he was a Boss and BOB in 1895 despite roots in eastern Sicily is true, we could make arguments why/how that happened. I could make a list but your reasons would be similar to mine so you go first. What do you think his Messinese lineage changes?
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Philly boss John Avena from Messina was also arrested in Boston, so there's something there.
It may or may not change things, but it has to reframe them. Going to really sink my teeth in deep here because I think it's worth considering given our interest in history.
- Messina was ID'd by Italian authorities as having had only peripheral involvement in historic Cosa Nostra and I don't believe evidence has surfaced of a Family there or significant members. Catania wasn't established until later and seems to be exceptional in the far east. The mafia was well-traveled and they had connections in Messina given it was on the same island but there is little evidence of it being politically relevant to the US or Sicilian mafia.
- American LE had little understanding of the formal mafia in the 1890s, so I would have to see the same letters and intel they collected on Taranto and review it based on what we've learned about the mafia since then. We know from the Morello letters that in addition to the capo dei capi, the Assemblea Generale and Gran Consiglio existed by the early 1900s. Allegra mentions the Assemblea existing in Sicily, so like the rest of the structure and protocol it's likely these bodies were transplanted from Sicily. If Taranto was a boss and especially the capo dei capi, he would have been a Messinese on top of a Western Sicilian governing body that required at least acknowledgement from Palermo.
- The Morello letters mention induction protocol requiring a proposed member's Sicilian compaesani be contacted, citing Cascio Ferro and Enea violating this protocol. This changed with Americanization, but hometown and interrelation would have been even more vital in the 1890s, a decade before Morello wrote this letter. If these standards were held for made members (perhaps with exceptions), these standards should have applied tenfold to a boss or capo dei capi. Our knowledge of confirmed Family bosses and capi dei capi from the early mafia heavily indicates these factors were near-essential to promotion at the time.
- Like other early investigators they were targeting an operation, so the question is whether or not they simply saw information indicating Taranto and Bettini were major leaders of an interstate counterfeiting operation and equated this with the entire Cosa Nostra organization, or if like the Morello letters there was explicit info indicating formal rank / structure / protocol. LE/press may have made little to no distiction between Taranto/Bettini's role in illegal activity vs. the formal organization. Many of the early bosses ID'd by Gentile would not have been identified based on outward activity, but again I would have to see the letters and intel to make my own judgment. I have little faith in LE's ability to interpret this info in the 1890s and it's not their fault -- maybe they did get it right even -- but hard to accept it at face value. Did the SS have any way of knowing what a true mafia boss and capo dei capi were in 1896?
- If Taranto was a "Supreme" leader of both the Gambino Family and national mafia, it would would contrast with what we see of the early Gambino Family and other capi dei capi. Ignazio Lupo, Toto D'Aquila, and Manfredi Mineo all drew political influence from their ties to Palermo and that was the foundation of the Family. All three men spent relatively little time in the US before becoming bosses, with Mineo spending almost no time in the US (I think that's true for Lupo too). The main Palermo bosses they allied with, Nino Grillo and Ciccio Motisi, were in-laws of two of them and Grillo visited Isidore Crocervera in 1910, accompanied Mineo to NYC in 1911 right before Mineo/D'Aquila became bosses, and then accompanied Lupo back from Sicily in 1922 after he sought help with his D'Aquila death sentence.
- Sicilian heritage and high-level Palermo connections appear to have played a vital role in who the boss of the Gambino Family was between 1901-1931 (and arguably 1931-1951, 1957-1985), which is one of the central points in the Informer article, so you would think this would be even more true pre-1900s. Salvatore Maranzano was a capoprovincia who lived in Palermo before coming to the US. Even Masseria who earned a reputation in the US had relatives with the mafia and came from the west. Where would a Messinese fit into these dynamics 30+ years earlier?
- We know the Gambino Family accepted prominent Messinesi into its ranks by the 1910s-1920s. Valente seems to have earned his reputation locally as a killer but he was able to travel to Sicily in the 1920s and petition the Sicilian mafia for help, though this was likely through contacts his allies had in Palermo along with international friends like Nick Gentile. Gentile gives no indiciation Messinesi were seen as lesser and he loved Valante/Biondo, but they were still exceptional to their Western Sicilian peers. Even if Taranto and Bettini were "just" rank and file members with significant influnce in illegal operations, they were close to Palermitani and would show the Gambino Family had significant Messinesi figures long before Valente and his protege Biondo.
- Taranto was in Tunis before the US and there is reason to believe that Family is older than Calderone thought. You guys ID'd Paolo Orlando as a Tunis boss before becoming the Bonanno boss and Stefano Bedami was in Tunis and quickly became Newark boss. Orlando and Bedami were from mafia strongholds in Western Sicily though and already deeply connected/related to mafiosi. It's possible Taranto made ties in Tunis that greatly impacted his status in the US but it would still be significant that a Messinese was able to carry this over to the US and became boss over Western Sicilians so early.
... or the press was wrong about Taranto being Messinese, he was a Palermitano/Western Sicilian whose family moved to Messina, or there was actually a stronger Messina mafia presence that has evaded scrutiny in the US and Sicily and quietly impacted national politics.
--
This doesn't change the way you presented him in your article (the New Testament of early NYC research), but it fundamentally changes the discussion on pre-1900s leaders and the reality of Taranto's position. Either Taranto/Bettini's formal status was confused by LE/press (my hunch, personally), or they were an exception that defies other early patterns, sources, and politics which would be f'n incredible in its own right. The mafia is filled with surprises and I can't claim to know what was truly happening, but there is a lot to consider.
It may or may not change things, but it has to reframe them. Going to really sink my teeth in deep here because I think it's worth considering given our interest in history.
- Messina was ID'd by Italian authorities as having had only peripheral involvement in historic Cosa Nostra and I don't believe evidence has surfaced of a Family there or significant members. Catania wasn't established until later and seems to be exceptional in the far east. The mafia was well-traveled and they had connections in Messina given it was on the same island but there is little evidence of it being politically relevant to the US or Sicilian mafia.
- American LE had little understanding of the formal mafia in the 1890s, so I would have to see the same letters and intel they collected on Taranto and review it based on what we've learned about the mafia since then. We know from the Morello letters that in addition to the capo dei capi, the Assemblea Generale and Gran Consiglio existed by the early 1900s. Allegra mentions the Assemblea existing in Sicily, so like the rest of the structure and protocol it's likely these bodies were transplanted from Sicily. If Taranto was a boss and especially the capo dei capi, he would have been a Messinese on top of a Western Sicilian governing body that required at least acknowledgement from Palermo.
- The Morello letters mention induction protocol requiring a proposed member's Sicilian compaesani be contacted, citing Cascio Ferro and Enea violating this protocol. This changed with Americanization, but hometown and interrelation would have been even more vital in the 1890s, a decade before Morello wrote this letter. If these standards were held for made members (perhaps with exceptions), these standards should have applied tenfold to a boss or capo dei capi. Our knowledge of confirmed Family bosses and capi dei capi from the early mafia heavily indicates these factors were near-essential to promotion at the time.
- Like other early investigators they were targeting an operation, so the question is whether or not they simply saw information indicating Taranto and Bettini were major leaders of an interstate counterfeiting operation and equated this with the entire Cosa Nostra organization, or if like the Morello letters there was explicit info indicating formal rank / structure / protocol. LE/press may have made little to no distiction between Taranto/Bettini's role in illegal activity vs. the formal organization. Many of the early bosses ID'd by Gentile would not have been identified based on outward activity, but again I would have to see the letters and intel to make my own judgment. I have little faith in LE's ability to interpret this info in the 1890s and it's not their fault -- maybe they did get it right even -- but hard to accept it at face value. Did the SS have any way of knowing what a true mafia boss and capo dei capi were in 1896?
- If Taranto was a "Supreme" leader of both the Gambino Family and national mafia, it would would contrast with what we see of the early Gambino Family and other capi dei capi. Ignazio Lupo, Toto D'Aquila, and Manfredi Mineo all drew political influence from their ties to Palermo and that was the foundation of the Family. All three men spent relatively little time in the US before becoming bosses, with Mineo spending almost no time in the US (I think that's true for Lupo too). The main Palermo bosses they allied with, Nino Grillo and Ciccio Motisi, were in-laws of two of them and Grillo visited Isidore Crocervera in 1910, accompanied Mineo to NYC in 1911 right before Mineo/D'Aquila became bosses, and then accompanied Lupo back from Sicily in 1922 after he sought help with his D'Aquila death sentence.
- Sicilian heritage and high-level Palermo connections appear to have played a vital role in who the boss of the Gambino Family was between 1901-1931 (and arguably 1931-1951, 1957-1985), which is one of the central points in the Informer article, so you would think this would be even more true pre-1900s. Salvatore Maranzano was a capoprovincia who lived in Palermo before coming to the US. Even Masseria who earned a reputation in the US had relatives with the mafia and came from the west. Where would a Messinese fit into these dynamics 30+ years earlier?
- We know the Gambino Family accepted prominent Messinesi into its ranks by the 1910s-1920s. Valente seems to have earned his reputation locally as a killer but he was able to travel to Sicily in the 1920s and petition the Sicilian mafia for help, though this was likely through contacts his allies had in Palermo along with international friends like Nick Gentile. Gentile gives no indiciation Messinesi were seen as lesser and he loved Valante/Biondo, but they were still exceptional to their Western Sicilian peers. Even if Taranto and Bettini were "just" rank and file members with significant influnce in illegal operations, they were close to Palermitani and would show the Gambino Family had significant Messinesi figures long before Valente and his protege Biondo.
- Taranto was in Tunis before the US and there is reason to believe that Family is older than Calderone thought. You guys ID'd Paolo Orlando as a Tunis boss before becoming the Bonanno boss and Stefano Bedami was in Tunis and quickly became Newark boss. Orlando and Bedami were from mafia strongholds in Western Sicily though and already deeply connected/related to mafiosi. It's possible Taranto made ties in Tunis that greatly impacted his status in the US but it would still be significant that a Messinese was able to carry this over to the US and became boss over Western Sicilians so early.
... or the press was wrong about Taranto being Messinese, he was a Palermitano/Western Sicilian whose family moved to Messina, or there was actually a stronger Messina mafia presence that has evaded scrutiny in the US and Sicily and quietly impacted national politics.
--
This doesn't change the way you presented him in your article (the New Testament of early NYC research), but it fundamentally changes the discussion on pre-1900s leaders and the reality of Taranto's position. Either Taranto/Bettini's formal status was confused by LE/press (my hunch, personally), or they were an exception that defies other early patterns, sources, and politics which would be f'n incredible in its own right. The mafia is filled with surprises and I can't claim to know what was truly happening, but there is a lot to consider.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Want to make it clear too I don't think it's impossible for a Messinese to have been an early boss / capo dei capi. There could have been justification for it with these guys, but it would have been major gossip to them if a Messinese was elected to these positions.
Gentile mentions where almost every single one of his associates came from in Sicily and Italy, even when it's completely unnecessary to the story. He doesn't identify Terry Burns' killers yet these anonymous shooters get ID'd as being from Sferracavallo and Calabria -- Gentile saw hometown heritage as fundamental to a mafioso's identity and it wasn't some kind of geographical autism on his part, it had serious meaning to them. Joe Bonanno emphasizes it too. The earlier you go the more it mattered.
I know CC and Antiliar know this, but just want to make it clear this is where I'm coming from.
Gentile mentions where almost every single one of his associates came from in Sicily and Italy, even when it's completely unnecessary to the story. He doesn't identify Terry Burns' killers yet these anonymous shooters get ID'd as being from Sferracavallo and Calabria -- Gentile saw hometown heritage as fundamental to a mafioso's identity and it wasn't some kind of geographical autism on his part, it had serious meaning to them. Joe Bonanno emphasizes it too. The earlier you go the more it mattered.
I know CC and Antiliar know this, but just want to make it clear this is where I'm coming from.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Don't forget that Chicago Mafia boss Tony Lombardo was also a native of Messina. Going farther back in time, in the 1860s there was a "war" between a gang from Messina and Palermitani Mafiosi in New Orleans. I wouldn't doubt if they somehow reconciled in the end. In August 1888, Candelario Bettini was arrested with Gaetano Russo, an old New Orleans Mafioso of Palermitani origin, for counterfeiting.
I made a note and provided a link in the "Researching the Mafia" thread about the Daily Reports of Agents. I found the one for 1896 covering the arrests of Taranto and Bettini, but unfortunately it's all pretty specific to counterfeiting. Whatever info they had on the Mafia isn't in the Daily Reports. I did find some other interesting information. They called Salvatore Romano of 233 Elizabeth Street as one of the counterfeiters who got away. Roman was later connected with Morello and Lupo. They interviewed a Salvatore Marcchine in prison for info on Taranto and Bettini, etc. The name is very similar to the man who was chopped to pieces in Brooklyn in 1908, but I haven't compared the two to see if they're the same person.
I made a note and provided a link in the "Researching the Mafia" thread about the Daily Reports of Agents. I found the one for 1896 covering the arrests of Taranto and Bettini, but unfortunately it's all pretty specific to counterfeiting. Whatever info they had on the Mafia isn't in the Daily Reports. I did find some other interesting information. They called Salvatore Romano of 233 Elizabeth Street as one of the counterfeiters who got away. Roman was later connected with Morello and Lupo. They interviewed a Salvatore Marcchine in prison for info on Taranto and Bettini, etc. The name is very similar to the man who was chopped to pieces in Brooklyn in 1908, but I haven't compared the two to see if they're the same person.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Salvatore Marchione?Antiliar wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:10 pm Don't forget that Chicago Mafia boss Tony Lombardo was also a native of Messina. Going farther back in time, in the 1860s there was a "war" between a gang from Messina and Palermitani Mafiosi in New Orleans. I wouldn't doubt if they somehow reconciled in the end. In August 1888, Candelario Bettini was arrested with Gaetano Russo, an old New Orleans Mafioso of Palermitani origin, for counterfeiting.
I made a note and provided a link in the "Researching the Mafia" thread about the Daily Reports of Agents. I found the one for 1896 covering the arrests of Taranto and Bettini, but unfortunately it's all pretty specific to counterfeiting. Whatever info they had on the Mafia isn't in the Daily Reports. I did find some other interesting information. They called Salvatore Romano of 233 Elizabeth Street as one of the counterfeiters who got away. Roman was later connected with Morello and Lupo. They interviewed a Salvatore Marcchine in prison for info on Taranto and Bettini, etc. The name is very similar to the man who was chopped to pieces in Brooklyn in 1908, but I haven't compared the two to see if they're the same person.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Marchione was a Carinese suspected of being killed by his paesan Giuseppe Fanaro of the Lupo/D'Aquila Family.
Good info, Antiliar -- definitely comingling going on with these people and different points of connection. It would revolutionize the discussion of early US mafia if the Gambino boss / capo dei capi was from Messina in the 1890s, but it's really hinged on what was said in the letters and how much faith you have in 1890s LE to interpret that info correctly. Even with Clemente informing explicitly about the mafia later on a great deal was lost on the Secret Service. Not their fault, as the mafia doesn't fit someone's assumption of an "organized crime" group or gang.
Good info, Antiliar -- definitely comingling going on with these people and different points of connection. It would revolutionize the discussion of early US mafia if the Gambino boss / capo dei capi was from Messina in the 1890s, but it's really hinged on what was said in the letters and how much faith you have in 1890s LE to interpret that info correctly. Even with Clemente informing explicitly about the mafia later on a great deal was lost on the Secret Service. Not their fault, as the mafia doesn't fit someone's assumption of an "organized crime" group or gang.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Salvatore Marchinne is spelled Salvatore Marchiani in the New York City Municipal death records. He was only born in 1886, so is too young to match the prisoner. You never know until you research.
As for the Secret Service's knowledge of the Mafia in 1896, I really can't answer the question without having access to the evidence they had back then. So maybe they got it wrong, or maybe they didn't. It might be worth it to go through the available records page-by-page to see if there's anything in them that can show forgotten links.
As for the Secret Service's knowledge of the Mafia in 1896, I really can't answer the question without having access to the evidence they had back then. So maybe they got it wrong, or maybe they didn't. It might be worth it to go through the available records page-by-page to see if there's anything in them that can show forgotten links.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
I agree with that.
My final take barring new developments is that Taranto's alleged heritage casts him and/or the development of the NY mafia in a different light, take your pick. It's significant information one way or another if it's true.
My final take barring new developments is that Taranto's alleged heritage casts him and/or the development of the NY mafia in a different light, take your pick. It's significant information one way or another if it's true.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
His wife:
This is the correct one that was running around Elizabeth St in the 1900's:
There had to have been two Salvatore Romanos.
(Left is Antonio Frauto, I want to say its Stella Frauto's first husband, regardless he was connected to Clemente.) Right is a Salvatore Romano arrested in 1902. This was one arrested in 1911.
(Left is Antonio Frauto, I want to say its Stella Frauto's first husband, regardless he was connected to Clemente.) Right is a Salvatore Romano arrested in 1902. This was one arrested in 1911.
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