JCB1977 wrote:Braintree is very close to South Boston, who are these jokers? If it were 1985, somebody I the North End or Providence would have paid the a little visit. That's a lot of $$ to not be kicking anything to anybody.
There may be a mob connection after all JCB, the apparent ringleader, Woodman, was one of four guys indicted last October along with Louis Dinunzio, made guy in the Patriarca's and the Cheesemans nephew, for marijuana trafficking. I would assume, then, that he was kicking up to somebody.
JCB1977 wrote:Braintree is very close to South Boston, who are these jokers? If it were 1985, somebody I the North End or Providence would have paid the a little visit. That's a lot of $$ to not be kicking anything to anybody.
There may be a mob connection after all JCB, the apparent ringleader, Woodman, was one of four guys indicted last October along with Louis Dinunzio, made guy in the Patriarca's and the Cheesemans nephew, for marijuana trafficking. I would assume, then, that he was kicking up to somebody.
Nice find Mike68.
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
JCB1977 wrote:Braintree is very close to South Boston, who are these jokers? If it were 1985, somebody I the North End or Providence would have paid the a little visit. That's a lot of $$ to not be kicking anything to anybody.
There may be a mob connection after all JCB, the apparent ringleader, Woodman, was one of four guys indicted last October along with Louis Dinunzio, made guy in the Patriarca's and the Cheesemans nephew, for marijuana trafficking. I would assume, then, that he was kicking up to somebody.
Nice find Mike68.
Wow. Good find indeed. Never would have caught that.
Do you believe that the Feds "dress up" a case for a few popcorn headlines? Especially in Boston, where extensive corruption in the local FBi office has been uncovered and proven. Connolly was the scapegoat, the entire office investigating OC should have been locked up. While I understand you are a huge fan of the FBI and believe 100% of what comes out of their mouth, their public relations staff and chief spokesperson have a history of making arrests much more attractive than they really are. In Rhode Island, the State Police have a better reputation and more inside knowledge about OC than the FBI in Boston. FBI personnel and Priests are no picnic in New England my friend, their massive and reprehensible actions have "destroyed" their credibility with the citizens of Massachusetts as well as the American public. And they only have themselves to blame for letting a relatively "low life" narcotics dealer like Jim Bulger influence and corrupt an entire office. That's sad...that's the truth. If you believe that the informants used in mob related cases are being 100% truthful, you're dreaming. ANd the Feds get most of their info from informants looking to gain an edge. That's a problem with the system and the government uses this ridiculous tactic and sell it as fact. Go to prison or tell us what we want to hear...that's extortion at its best.
Another example of the FBI making a case look more attractive than it really is: Carmine Agnello and his Cleveland bust. The Feds are desperately trying to get him into a conspiracy with NY gangsters for his small auto salvage operation in Cleveland by saying he speaks with NY guys regularly. Wasn't he born and raised in NY? Aren't his roots there? Of course he speaks to NY people but the Feds in Cleveland are throwing darts at nothing if they think the Gambino family has anything to do with a conspiracy in fucking Cleveland.
There are the historical outrages, like the FBI’s spying on homosexuals to create rap sheets that J. Edgar Hoover could use against his political enemies, or the FBI’s round-the-clock surveillance of the highest levels of the civil rights movement (a Memphis undercover cop who was a regular FBI informant was present during the assassination of the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.). Even earlier in the organization’s history, when it was still known as the Bureau of Investigations, an ascendant Hoover earned his chops overseeing the trumped up prosecutions of leftists, foreigners and other such “undesirables” in cases so egregious that they led concerned citizens to form the ACLU. During the McCarthy era, Hoover and his agents passed information to McCarthy’s staff, helping McCarthy destroy the lives of those who came in his sights.
More recently, the FBI has come under deserved scrutiny for the fatal shooting of Ibragim Todashev by an FBI agent. Todashev was under investigation as an alleged accomplice to Boston Marathon Bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev in a 2011 triple homicide and had undergone several earlier FBI interrogations apparently without incident. The official FBI story so far is that Todashev, on the verge of signing a confession, suddenly went crazy and lunged at the FBI agent, who then shot him. In early accounts, Todashev was armed with a knife, in later accounts he was unarmed. Official accounts also claim that two Massachusetts state troopers who had accompanied the FBI agent to Todashev’s apartment were conveniently out of the room when the shooting occurred, leaving no living witnesses except the FBI agent who pulled the trigger. And you're not willing to question that? That's alot of power you are giving to one agency, which is the fucking problem with this country.
The FBI can get away with this slew of supposedly justified killings because, like any good criminal organization, the FBI hates conducting its business on the record. Its official rules ban the recording of interrogations and witness interviews, which are instead typically conducted by two agents, one of whom asks questions and the other of whom takes the notes that will eventually become the official report of the interview. Any witness or defendant who dares contradict this official report is subject to prosecution under a statute that provides for a five-year sentence for lying to a federal agent. This scheme of extorting (or, more politely, creating) testimony that aligns with what the FBI wants to hear largely explains the fact that a staggering 97% of federal cases end in guilty pleas.
**The government of the United States has many dirty secrets Wiseguy and have used illegal methods to secure headlines for the last century. And yet, you are always the first to side with the Feds. Do you ever question your government? There are two sides to every story Wiseguy, who are the real criminals? Do you find it odd that politicians enter politics typically in debt and come out of office being worth tens of millions of dollars? All of a sudden, they are making all the proper investments when the rest of the country is getting killed in the market?
I am no fan of criminals and if they break the law, they should be locked up...and that goes for the U.S government operatives who go outside the law with illegal wiretapping, the use of drug addict informants and other methods to gain evidence. Government intrusion has been going on since the beginning of time. J. Edgar Hoover was a disgrace and a paranoid psychopath, yet the FBI headquarters is named after that fruit cake. C'mon man.
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
Well the feds don't make headlines, the press does. While some lazy journalist here or there may do it, you don't see the same predictions by the feds of them having just crippled the mob with a latest bust. Some cases we see where we know there's a mob connection but, for some reason, the feds don't specifically mention it. Maybe I missed something but I didn't see law enforcement anywhere try to make a claim that there Agnello's operation in Cleveland was connected to the Gambinos other than he is still a member of that crime family. Maybe the press did but I don't think the government attempted to make more out of it than what it was. As for Connolly, is he the posterboy for every schmuck who has come on these forums and wants to pretend he's here to give us all the real scoop while the feds are in the dark? Does Ibragim Todashev being killed by the feds somehow mean that Cheech can say the feds are wrong about Graziano owning the BetEagle website without expounding on how he knows this?
The way I see it, if I default to the feds, I'm going to get the right information at least 95% of the time. If I default to all the internet insiders, well, let's just say history has shown it to be significantly less. Now, that doesn't mean I don't take what a few proven, time tested posters say into account. In fact, I'm usually happy to take them at their word if it doesn't contradict with the feds. If it does, I at least expect them - or anyone insinuating they have more knowledge - to provide more than just their word. To expect everyone on an internet forum to just take their word is naive and arrogant. And a lot of them act like they'd be betraying some confidence which, frankly, I think is a crock. If you have info and you want everyone to know you have info, tell us how you know it. Otherwise, why say anything? Well, I suppose there will always be those quick to believe anyone claiming inside info. The idea of an insider gets them all giddy. But there are those of us who haven't forgotten the legion of bullshitters on these forums over the years and choose to use better judgement. And if that pricks a few egos, oh well.
jcb makes some good points. i would also add the countless fbi patsys set up and then busted in their fake terror plots that allow them to justify their insane budget. outright lies and bending the truth are a big part of that organization and while that doesn't mean the vast majority of these cases aren't above board, i don't think it's fair either to outright dismiss people who question known liars on certain points of contention.
Wiseguy wrote:Well the feds don't make headlines, the press does. While some lazy journalist here or there may do it, you don't see the same predictions by the feds of them having just crippled the mob with a latest bust. Some cases we see where we know there's a mob connection but, for some reason, the feds don't specifically mention it. Maybe I missed something but I didn't see law enforcement anywhere try to make a claim that there Agnello's operation in Cleveland was connected to the Gambinos other than he is still a member of that crime family. Maybe the press did but I don't think the government attempted to make more out of it than what it was. As for Connolly, is he the posterboy for every schmuck who has come on these forums and wants to pretend he's here to give us all the real scoop while the feds are in the dark? Does Ibragim Todashev being killed by the feds somehow mean that Cheech can say the feds are wrong about Graziano owning the BetEagle website without expounding on how he knows this?
The way I see it, if I default to the feds, I'm going to get the right information at least 95% of the time. If I default to all the internet insiders, well, let's just say history has shown it to be significantly less. Now, that doesn't mean I don't take what a few proven, time tested posters say into account. In fact, I'm usually happy to take them at their word if it doesn't contradict with the feds. If it does, I at least expect them - or anyone insinuating they have more knowledge - to provide more than just their word. To expect everyone on an internet forum to just take their word is naive and arrogant. And a lot of them act like they'd be betraying some confidence which, frankly, I think is a crock. If you have info and you want everyone to know you have info, tell us how you know it. Otherwise, why say anything? Well, I suppose there will always be those quick to believe anyone claiming inside info. The idea of an insider gets them all giddy. But there are those of us who haven't forgotten the legion of bullshitters on these forums over the years and choose to use better judgement. And if that pricks a few egos, oh well.
Correction: you're gonna get the information that "they want you to believe" 95% of the time, there's a difference between the "right" information and what they are releasing to the general public. NOTHING is what it seems. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm stating my belief based on "the few" examples off the top of my head that the FBI still can't answer for. And let me be clear, I grew up two houses down from a retired SA for the FBI in Northeast Ohio, I've met plenty through him. In no way am I saying that the a large percentage of the FBI is corrupt cause I don't believe that at all. But the higher ups are nothing more than nickel-dime politicians doing the dirty work for highly elected government officials. Behind the scenes, we the American people have not a clue as to what is said and what is done.
As for the FBI, it's been littered with political corruption since its inception and my old man always told me, "A zebra doesn't change its stripes" and the FBI has continued with patterns of corruption up to the present. Before you go humping their badge and cheap suits, always look at every other source. Then your belief isn't so one sided and you get to absorb all sides of the riddle. 3/4 of their Intel from informants are half truths and flat out lies. Sad if you call that justice in this great nation, that would be a violation of the very foundation of what our founding fathers created. But if that's your measuring stick for every matter OC related, you're selling yourself short.
Last edited by JCB1977 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
Once again, even if your guys' tin foil hat views of the feds are true, what does that have to do with discussions about the mob on Internet forums? If you're trying to use that as a blanket excuse for the opinions of nameless, faceless posters to be given the same weight as law enforcement, you're dreaming.
Wiseguy wrote:Once again, even if your guys' tin foil hat views of the feds are true, what does that have to do with discussions about the mob on Internet forums? If you're trying to use that as a blanket excuse for the opinions of nameless, faceless posters to be given the same weight as law enforcement, you're dreaming.
Not at all. My statements specifically dealt with your measuring stick for everything OC related. And yes, LE will know more than 99% of posters. I was just saying the FBI is one of "many" sources to get information from. And with their history of lies and publicity campaigns, the agency isn't the "measuring stick" for all OC matters and you should take their info with a grain of salt.
Don't you find it ridiculous and unAmerican that no interrogations are recorded?
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
***Just another "strong" example on why the credibility of the FBI is questioned on a constant basis. If this is the agency you use as your "end all" conclusion on OC, I feel sorry for you Wiseguy. You're a very smart guy and very diligent, how about using many other measuring sticks to draw your conclusion?
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
Cheech wrote:I live it. You read it. I got nothing else to say. I don't care who believes what.
Nobody who lives it is on here posting about it. Over 15 years of forum history has demonstrated that pretty conclusively.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
I damn sure wouldn't listen to everything the FBI in Boston says. They been corrupt for longer than I've been alive and I'm 35 That much has been PROVEN. JCB has a good point about that.
Don't forget, these were also the same guys who conspired with Barboza to send 3 or 4 guys away FOR LIFE knowing good and damn well Barboza couldn't even come close to being trusted.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
Cheech wrote:I live it. You read it. I got nothing else to say. I don't care who believes what.
Nobody who lives it is on here posting about it. Over 15 years of forum history has demonstrated that pretty conclusively.
Pogo
I have to disagree Pogo. People can be very close to that life and/or part of it, come on the forums. They can say "something" without saying "nothing". It is how a neighborhood guy communicates. Some ppl on here are book smart and never met a street guy then they may not understand just what he's saying. This is 2015, not 1985, there's guys on forums who have seen things, know things. They just don't tell us the whole story unless it's ancient history. Believe me on this one.
Of course, on the forums there are more phonies and wannabes then street guys but there ARE neighborhood guys on forums.
That much has been PROVEN. JCB has a good point about that.
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