Chicago Outfit Making Ceremony, 1983

[Pogo The Clown]

Carlisi: Took over as boss of the Outfit after Aiuppa's imprisonment. Led it for 6 years before being imprisoned himself in 1992. He would die in a Florida prison in 1997, aged 75.

We may have covered this before (I forget) but what is your take on the 1986 meeting Bill Roemer talked about where Joe Ferriola was nambed the new Boss to replace Aiuppa? The same one where it was decided to kill the Spilotros. If I remember right Roemer claimed to have had an informant in the meeting. Thanks.


Pogo

[Snakes]

Who knows if he was telling the truth? He claimed that Pilotto was at the meeting but he was in prison at the time. He fabricated dialogue throughout much of that book, too. Scarpelli (a made guy) and Lenny Patrick (high-placed associate) both stated that Carlisi succeeded Aiuppa, so that's what I go with.

[Pogo The Clown]

Thanks for the info. I had thought that Nick Calabrese was the only source for Carlise succeeding Aiuppa but with Scarpelli and Patrick also claiming it it has a lot more weight. Thanks.


Pogo

[B.]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

[PolackTony]

Calabrese testified that the ceremony took place on Sunday, October 9, 1983. He remembers this because the Vikings were playing the Bears in Chicago that day.

Bears lost.

[Snakes]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

Some addendums to the original post:

I'm almost certain that "Frank Belmonte" is "Frank DeMonte." I believe the name was either misremembered by Nick C or transcribed incorrectly.

Also. Ferriola was apparently not a capo at the time. He became one later on but at the time of Nick's making, he was described as a "powerful" member who "reported directly" to the bosses.

[PolackTony]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

Some addendums to the original post:

I'm almost certain that "Frank Belmonte" is "Frank DeMonte." I believe the name was either misremembered by Nick C or transcribed incorrectly.

Also. Ferriola was apparently not a capo at the time. He became one later on but at the time of Nick's making, he was described as a "powerful" member who "reported directly" to the bosses.

If Belmonte was indeed DeMonte, how does one explain Arrigo's claim that DeMonte was made with him around '76?

The mystery still remains as to who took over the Buccieri crew after Turk died in '79. Maybe LaPietra was in charge of both that crew and Chinatown, at least in some interim capacity. Either way, this is a gap in our understanding. Amazing both how much we've learned and also how many things we still understand about Chicago.

[Snakes]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

Some addendums to the original post:

I'm almost certain that "Frank Belmonte" is "Frank DeMonte." I believe the name was either misremembered by Nick C or transcribed incorrectly.

Also. Ferriola was apparently not a capo at the time. He became one later on but at the time of Nick's making, he was described as a "powerful" member who "reported directly" to the bosses.

If Belmonte was indeed DeMonte, how does one explain Arrigo's claim that DeMonte was made with him around '76?

The mystery still remains as to who took over the Buccieri crew after Turk died in '79. Maybe LaPietra was in charge of both that crew and Chinatown, at least in some interim capacity. Either way, this is a gap in our understanding. Amazing both how much we've learned and also how many things we still understand about Chicago.

My only guess is that Arrigo's definition being made at the "same time" was more of a general statement as opposed to a literal statement, although I'd have to read his testimony again to see exactly what he said.

[PolackTony]

A question that came to mind. Has it ever been thought that Frank Calabrese sponsored anyone for membership? I ask because, in one of the transcripts for Frank Jr and Sr's prison conversations, Frank Sr mentions a "tall fella" and then tells Jr "that's my godson". Maybe he's just talking in code, but I presume that if the guy he was referring to was his actual godson, Frank Jr wouldn't have to be told who he was. Anyone recall who Frank Sr may have been referring to as the "tall fella" who was his "godson"? IIRC this was during a convo where Sr mentioned "Rota" ("Tires" in Italian).

[PolackTony]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

Some addendums to the original post:

I'm almost certain that "Frank Belmonte" is "Frank DeMonte." I believe the name was either misremembered by Nick C or transcribed incorrectly.

Also. Ferriola was apparently not a capo at the time. He became one later on but at the time of Nick's making, he was described as a "powerful" member who "reported directly" to the bosses.

If Belmonte was indeed DeMonte, how does one explain Arrigo's claim that DeMonte was made with him around '76?

The mystery still remains as to who took over the Buccieri crew after Turk died in '79. Maybe LaPietra was in charge of both that crew and Chinatown, at least in some interim capacity. Either way, this is a gap in our understanding. Amazing both how much we've learned and also how many things we still understand about Chicago.

My only guess is that Arrigo's definition being made at the "same time" was more of a general statement as opposed to a literal statement, although I'd have to read his testimony again to see exactly what he said.

Yeah, we know that in many cases these guys can be pretty fuzzy on precise chronology. Maybe it seemed like the "same time" -- even if it was like 7 years apart -- if very few guys around this time were made into the Northside crew.

[Antiliar]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

Some addendums to the original post:

I'm almost certain that "Frank Belmonte" is "Frank DeMonte." I believe the name was either misremembered by Nick C or transcribed incorrectly.

Also. Ferriola was apparently not a capo at the time. He became one later on but at the time of Nick's making, he was described as a "powerful" member who "reported directly" to the bosses.

If Belmonte was indeed DeMonte, how does one explain Arrigo's claim that DeMonte was made with him around '76?

The mystery still remains as to who took over the Buccieri crew after Turk died in '79. Maybe LaPietra was in charge of both that crew and Chinatown, at least in some interim capacity. Either way, this is a gap in our understanding. Amazing both how much we've learned and also how many things we still understand about Chicago.

In US v Infelise the government maintained that Ferriola succeeded Torello:

The Ferriola Street Crew's organization consisted of a "boss" or leader, assistants to the boss, supervisors of the various income producing activities, and many agents and employees who were compensated out of the earnings from those activities. From 1974 until his death in 1979, James Torello was the boss, from 1979 until his death in 1989 Joseph Ferriola was the boss, and from 1989 through the indictment of this case defendant Infelise was the boss of the Ferriola Street Crew. Supervisors of the street crew included, at various times, trial defendants Marino, Bellavia, and DeLaurentis.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 6/1983406/

[Snakes]

Was looking for something and figured I'd bump this A+ thread.

Some addendums to the original post:

I'm almost certain that "Frank Belmonte" is "Frank DeMonte." I believe the name was either misremembered by Nick C or transcribed incorrectly.

Also. Ferriola was apparently not a capo at the time. He became one later on but at the time of Nick's making, he was described as a "powerful" member who "reported directly" to the bosses.

If Belmonte was indeed DeMonte, how does one explain Arrigo's claim that DeMonte was made with him around '76?

The mystery still remains as to who took over the Buccieri crew after Turk died in '79. Maybe LaPietra was in charge of both that crew and Chinatown, at least in some interim capacity. Either way, this is a gap in our understanding. Amazing both how much we've learned and also how many things we still understand about Chicago.

In US v Infelise the government maintained that Ferriola succeeded Torello:

The Ferriola Street Crew's organization consisted of a "boss" or leader, assistants to the boss, supervisors of the various income producing activities, and many agents and employees who were compensated out of the earnings from those activities. From 1974 until his death in 1979, James Torello was the boss, from 1979 until his death in 1989 Joseph Ferriola was the boss, and from 1989 through the indictment of this case defendant Infelise was the boss of the Ferriola Street Crew. Supervisors of the street crew included, at various times, trial defendants Marino, Bellavia, and DeLaurentis.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 6/1983406/

Yeah, I always thought the succession went Buccieri-Torello-Ferriola-Infelise, but Nick C saying Ferriola wasn't a capo seems to contradict that stance. You would think that if someone succeeded a guy as powerful as Turk was that he'd be a capo but the Nick C statement just casts sole shades of doubt on that idea.

[Villain]

I think LaPietra succeeded both the Torello/Cicero and Caruso/Chinatown crews, with Ferriola as capo or maybe "crew boss" for LaPietra and the Cicero crew. LaPietra previously belonged to that same Cicero crew and later sponsored Infelice (who was under Ferriola) which means that they were the same group. This example is quite good regarding the so-called territorial boss or BOD theory. The same situation was with Prios, LaPortes and Battaglias groups.

[Antiliar]

Yeah, I always thought the succession went Buccieri-Torello-Ferriola-Infelise, but Nick C saying Ferriola wasn't a capo seems to contradict that stance. You would think that if someone succeeded a guy as powerful as Turk was that he'd be a capo but the Nick C statement just casts sole shades of doubt on that idea.

Notice that when Nick first says that Ferriola wasn't a capo was when Torello was alive. Later, when Black Sam was boss, Nick wasn't sure if DiFronzo was a capo or underboss. Ferriola was, at that time, just a "money maker." Scarpelli in his 302 said that when Black Sam was the boss he also wasn't sure who the underboss was. He thought it could have been Ferriola. He said that Ferriola headed his crew in Cicero, James LaPietra a crew around 26th Street, DiFronzo headed EP, and Vincent Solano the North Side crew. He added that Tocco was the boss of Chicago Heights and Louis Eboli succeeded Joe Lombardo in Grand Avenue, but he didn't know who replaced him after he died.

We also have the testimony of others who support the fact that Ferriola was a capo or "street boss" of a crew. BJ Jahoda testified that Rocky Infelice succeeded Ferriola to head the crew in agreement with what Scarpelli said. Joseph Granata testified that Ferriola was the boss of the Cicero crew. When Ken Eto testified earlier in the 1980s while Accardo, Aiuppa and Cerone were in the top positions, he stated that Ferriola was a territorial boss and so were Solano, Pilotto, Lombardo and La Pietra. He didn't mention DiFronzo and may have been unaware of him.

I think we can conclude that most of what they knew was what they were told, and they were told this on a need to know basis. They probably didn't ask questions since that would make them look suspicious. But based on the preponderance of the evidence I would have to say that Ferriola was indeed a capo after Torello and before Infelice. I suspect Nick was unaware of Ferriola's promotion and never asked, so he relied on older information that was never updated.

[Snakes]

Yeah, I always thought the succession went Buccieri-Torello-Ferriola-Infelise, but Nick C saying Ferriola wasn't a capo seems to contradict that stance. You would think that if someone succeeded a guy as powerful as Turk was that he'd be a capo but the Nick C statement just casts sole shades of doubt on that idea.

Notice that when Nick first says that Ferriola wasn't a capo was when Torello was alive. Later, when Black Sam was boss, Nick wasn't sure if DiFronzo was a capo or underboss. Ferriola was, at that time, just a "money maker." Scarpelli in his 302 said that when Black Sam was the boss he also wasn't sure who the underboss was. He thought it could have been Ferriola. He said that Ferriola headed his crew in Cicero, James LaPietra a crew around 26th Street, DiFronzo headed EP, and Vincent Solano the North Side crew. He added that Tocco was the boss of Chicago Heights and Louis Eboli succeeded Joe Lombardo in Grand Avenue, but he didn't know who replaced him after he died.

We also have the testimony of others who support the fact that Ferriola was a capo or "street boss" of a crew. BJ Jahoda testified that Rocky Infelice succeeded Ferriola to head the crew in agreement with what Scarpelli said. Joseph Granata testified that Ferriola was the boss of the Cicero crew. When Ken Eto testified earlier in the 1980s while Accardo, Aiuppa and Cerone were in the top positions, he stated that Ferriola was a territorial boss and so were Solano, Pilotto, Lombardo and La Pietra. He didn't mention DiFronzo and may have been unaware of him.

I think we can conclude that most of what they knew was what they were told, and they were told this on a need to know basis. They probably didn't ask questions since that would make them look suspicious. But based on the preponderance of the evidence I would have to say that Ferriola was indeed a capo after Torello and before Infelice. I suspect Nick was unaware of Ferriola's promotion and never asked, so he relied on older information that was never updated.

I'm inclined to agree but wouldn't Ferriola have sponsored Infelise if he was a capo at the time? Infelise never had any real history with LaPietra but was described as a Ferriola subordinate since before his making. On the other hand, Ferriola wasn't a healthy man so I suppose that could explain his absence.