Changing Families

[Angelo Santino]

This started a sub-discussion in the Decav thread, thought I would move it here:

B. wrote:
There was a conversation a little while back where we were talking about how pre-1920s the idea of cosa nostra being one organization was stronger and they were more open to members moving from family to family.

johnny_scootch wrote:
They had trust that enabled a member to move from one family to another most of the time off the strength of a letter. Today they don't trust another member as far as they can throw them.

Christie wrote:
That's true but that goes back to the disintegration of the Sicilian/Italian culture in America as a whole. In 1900, relatives were spread across cities and states, travel (for work) was frequent, and considering that Sicily itself could fit into most USA states, it's amazing how the population expanded yet kept those contacts for a time. In the 1930's there were reforms that made immigration much more difficult, prior to that travels back and forth to Italy was a great business to be in. After 1930, after regulations and the great depression things became more localized as, on a broad level, the Italians were settling into their new cities and becoming American... None of the above relates to the mafia directly but concerns the Italian-American lifestyle, which the mafia used as a track in to run on. It's amazing they maintained a national cohesion up to the 1980's, by this time most of the second generation were localized members, very different world than the mafia of the 1900's and 1930's who had friends, family, compaesani in 3 or 4 cities nationally. Cut to today, There's little evidence that Chicago or NY have any contact with each other.There are no national meets and Albert Vena or whoever's at the top probably has never met Joe Ligambi or Frank Cali or any east coast powerhouse. Much of this has to do with scrutinizing law enforcement but much of it had to do with an Americanization of members themselves.

All of the above is true. But then we have the DeCavalcante (and Gambinos) who maintain contacts to this decade (and defy what I explained above). They appear to be in close contact with relatives, collaborate and recognize each other as members of the same thing. Cafaro said the Gen Brugad did not. Those families are the ones with the strongest Mafia ties, it shows just how powerful that network is and just imagine in its heydey when immigration soared, every group acted similar to that tenfold. Visually it would be like viewing the Verzon netowork. But it was a continuous evolution not a static one.

As far as the Mafia goes, you don't see it today, but back in the day (1900-1920) the mafia functioned more closely to that of it's Sicilian mother, at it's essence it is a freemasonry of OC or a criminal benevolent association in that it provides protection for its members. In Sicily, there's no evidence for or against that members "switched families," the earliest we have is Allegra who despite being from one city with a mafia family was assigned to another family when he was made in another city (I'm not remember the names of the cities right now, but this occured in the 1920's). That style was never applied in the US, someone wasn't made by the Bonannos and assigned to the Genovese. Other more recent sources indicate that family switching is incredibly rare, people can form new families but going from Corleone to Trapani is something I have yet to hear about. But then I don't know everything, I'd be interested in Toto's take.

Toto wrote:
In Sicily the families some families have been dissolved and the members put in different families. For example, Gioacchino Pennino (the nephew) mentioned about Conte Federico family that was dissolved. It also happened as a punishment to Palermo Centro family after Salvatore La Barbera was murdered and his brother jailed in the 1960s. Only after the mafia commission was reformed fully did they organize the family newly. Some people might say those guys got transferred but I would not agree that it's a transfer in such a case.

The only transfer in Sicily was mentioned by Buscetta was Porta Nuova member Rosario Anselmo who wanted to marry the daughter of Raffaele Spina (Noce family) but Anselmo was from a poor background so the girls family opposed it. Buscetta told Anselmo run away with the girl then they have to let you. But when he did this and the marriage happened Calcedonio Di Pisa boss of Noce made a beef in the commission that Anselmo now belongs to Noce. The commission made a decision to transfer Anselmo from Porta Nuova to Noce. The only time such a thing happened. Actually, this transfer was used by Cavataio, Matranga and Manno to bring new allies on to their side to oppose having a commission. It's probably why it didn't happen again.

In America the fluid Italian communities due to recent immigration meant that these things happened more regularly at that time. But when the people and the mafia is fixed in location there's no need for such transfers. Even what happened with Valachi (and others) I would not say it was transferring but it was due to reorganization of the families. It only looks like a transfer because the families stayed the same. If they created 2 more families for example then it would be clearer that it was reorganization and not transfer. The transfer I would say happens in exceptional cases. Also, just because some guy goes hundreds of miles away and starts working with some other guys and paying tribute to the boss there does not mean he was released by his first family. It can easily be explained that it was communications issue that led to these things. Then when a reorganization happened these guys might be able to choose where they went permanently.

Also, I don't believe the letter of introduction was the same as being formally introduced. I think that still had to take place. Only they showed the letter to show who they were. Remember a new guy is unlikely to new who the mafiosi are in a community immediately but if somebody gave him a letter and said show it to such and such then its an indication he's a mafiosi as well. But my guess is still somebody will have to introduce them similar to how Anthony Rotondo and Richard Cantarella met each other and they both knew and understood they were mafiosi but still they got an introduction later. They still use such things as letter or notes today. I'm trying to think but I think it was the Gambino's sending a note to a family in Sicily to make sure a guy they were going to make didn't belong to that family. It happened in the past few years I think.

Buscetta showed such a letter to a guy in Mexico who was a member of Porta Nuova. But the guy was so poor Buscetta was helping him instead of the other way.

About forming new families, the other bosses or the commission form the new families. Without this blessing it will never be considered. In the past few years Zen is a new family and Kalsa also is separated from Porta Nuova in Palermo.

[Angelo Santino]

Great info, Toto. Very informative. In regards to changing families in the US, there is simply no explanation for why that became acceptable. My own hypothesis/thinking on it that Sicily is 350 miles any which way and even with the ancient road systems, we already know that mafiosi were connected via their network with other mafia cities. Whereas in the USA, Sicily could fit into most states and distance. That combined with the Italian experience of going where the work and relatives were as well as being an alien country, may explain by family transfers were more common in the US.

But we must consider this: Gentile might have been the exception rather than the norm. I don't imagine everyone could do that, perhaps your more established and notable mafiosi could.

Have we ever compiled a list of American transfers?

1)Gentile - Philly, Pittsburgh, Siculiana, Bonanno, San Fran, Boss of Kansas City in the early 20's (or so he says), Pittsburgh, Gambino. (And yes, he
emphasized a formal transfer of affiliation between each group).
2) Valachi - Bonanno, Genovese
3) Fratianno - LA, Chicago, LA
4) Messina - Bonanno, New England
5) Milazzo - Bonanno, Detroit
6) Sabella - Bonanno - Philly
7) Lanza - Bonanno - SF
8) Magaddino - Bonanno, Buffalo
9) Capone - Genovese, Chicago
10) Roselli - LA and Chicago
11) Gallo brother - Colombo, Gen (correct?)
12) Picasso - Bonanno, Genovese.
13) Bianco - Colombo, New England.
14) ?

[Pogo The Clown]

Here are some more.


Nicky Bianco - New England, Colombo, New England
Charles "Charlie Bats" Battaglia - LA, Bonanno
Johnny Roselli - Chicago, LA, Chicago
Peter "Petey Muggins" Mione - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese
John "Johnny D" DeBellis - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese
Stephen "Buck Jones" Casertano - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese
Girolamo "Bobby Doyle" Santuccio - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

Here are some more.


Nicky Bianco - New England, Colombo, New England
Charles "Charlie Bats" Battaglia - LA, Bonanno
Johnny Roselli - Chicago, LA, Chicago
Peter "Petey Muggins" Mione - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese
John "Johnny D" DeBellis - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese
Stephen "Buck Jones" Casertano - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese
Girolamo "Bobby Doyle" Santuccio - Gagliano/Maranzano, Genovese


Pogo

Curious how early these guys were made because 10 years prior the Genovese and Gagliano groups were one Family. The Gagliano-Lucchese group, like the Genovese, were composed of Corleonesi, mainlanders but unlike them, had more Palermitans (most likely due to the amount of Palermitans in the Bronx where the D'Aquila-Gambinos has a presence but also shared the Palermitan demographic between each other (evidence of breakdown on hometown importance). So the 1920's recruitment/making probably had less emphasis on compaesani backgrounds and more emphasis on current neighborhood activity. The compaesani/criminal components in America seem to be like two pivots in regards to making the most honorable of criminals. One boss might want to bring in long term earners, another boss may feel the need for hitters. "Requirements" are very broad.

[Doobeez]

Punchy Illiano is another.

Christie, I see what you did here:

12) Picasso - Bonanno, Genovese

[Pogo The Clown]

Speaking of our buddy pic I remember he used to go off any time when the discussion of members switching families came up. According to hm it has never happened.


I don't think Frank "Punchy" Illiano and Albert Gallo were made in the Colombos. They were released as Associates to the Genovese family and were made in that family. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Pogo

[cavita]

If I'm not mistaken Frank "Three Fingers" Coppola worked for Detroit and St. Louis back in the 1930s and had lived in Rock Island, Illinois at one time. He was also involved in a kidnap ring at that time that included people from Chicago and Springfield. He left for Italy and became the most powerful mobster there after Lucky Luciano died in 1962. those are some pretty good floating memberships if he did indeed transfer to these various families.

[Doobeez]

Speaking of our buddy pic I remember he used to go off any time when the discussion of members switching families came up. According to hm it has never happened.


I don't think Frank "Punchy" Illiano and Albert Gallo were made in the Colombos. They were released as Associates to the Genovese family and were made in that family. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Pogo

I tried to edit because I wasnt sure, and i believe you're right. Thanks for clarifying.

[Pogo The Clown]

Allie Boy Persico. Colombo Associate, "released" to the Bufalinos (or was it New Egland?) to get made and then transfers back to the Colombos.


Pogo

[Ed]

Vincent Figlia and Sal Cerrito were said by the FBI to have transferred from the Colombo Crime Family to the SJ Crime Family. And Sal Marino was said to have transferred from the Pittsburgh Crime Family to SJ Crime Family.

[JCB1977]

Great info, Toto. Very informative. In regards to changing families in the US, there is simply no explanation for why that became acceptable. My own hypothesis/thinking on it that Sicily is 350 miles any which way and even with the ancient road systems, we already know that mafiosi were connected via their network with other mafia cities. Whereas in the USA, Sicily could fit into most states and distance. That combined with the Italian experience of going where the work and relatives were as well as being an alien country, may explain by family transfers were more common in the US.

But we must consider this: Gentile might have been the exception rather than the norm. I don't imagine everyone could do that, perhaps your more established and notable mafiosi could.

Have we ever compiled a list of American transfers?

1)Gentile - Philly, Pittsburgh, Siculiana, Bonanno, San Fran, Boss of Kansas City in the early 20's (or so he says), Pittsburgh, Gambino. (And yes, he
emphasized a formal transfer of affiliation between each group).
2) Valachi - Bonanno, Genovese
3) Fratianno - LA, Chicago, LA
4) Messina - Bonanno, New England
5) Milazzo - Bonanno, Detroit
6) Sabella - Bonanno - Philly
7) Lanza - Bonanno - SF
8) Magaddino - Bonanno, Buffalo
9) Capone - Genovese, Chicago
10) Roselli - LA and Chicago
11) Gallo brother - Colombo, Gen (correct?)
12) Picasso - Bonanno, Genovese.
13) Bianco - Colombo, New England.
14) ?

Dominick Anzalone- Pittsburgh to San Jose
Salvatore Marino Sr- Pittsburgh to San Jose
Frank Valenti- Pittsburgh to Rochester
Costenze Valenti- Pittsburgh to Rochester
Stefano Randazzo- Cleveland to Tampa
Joe DiCarlo-Buffalo to Youngstown/Cleveland

[JCB1977]

[quote="Chris Christie"]Great info, Toto. Very informative. In regards to changing families in the US, there is simply no explanation for why that became acceptable. My own hypothesis/thinking on it that Sicily is 350 miles any which way and even with the ancient road systems, we already know that mafiosi were connected via their network with other mafia cities. Whereas in the USA, Sicily could fit into most states and distance. That combined with the Italian experience of going where the work and relatives were as well as being an alien country, may explain by family transfers were more common in the US.

But we must consider this: Gentile might have been the exception rather than the norm. I don't imagine everyone could do that, perhaps your more established and notable mafiosi could.

Have we ever compiled a list of American transfers?

1)Gentile - Philly, Pittsburgh, Siculiana, Bonanno, San Fran, Boss of Kansas City in the early 20's (or so he says), Pittsburgh, Gambino. (And yes, he
emphasized a formal transfer of affiliation between each group).
2) Valachi - Bonanno, Genovese
3) Fratianno - LA, Chicago, LA
4) Messina - Bonanno, New England
5) Milazzo - Bonanno, Detroit
6) Sabella - Bonanno - Philly
7) Lanza - Bonanno - SF
8) Magaddino - Bonanno, Buffalo
9) Capone - Genovese, Chicago
10) Roselli - LA and Chicago
11) Gallo brother - Colombo, Gen (correct?)
12) Picasso - Bonanno, Genovese.
13) Bianco - Colombo, New England.
14

Carmen & Anthony DiNunzio- Chicago to New England

[B.]

The DiNunzios were actually made in Chicago?

Also, this plays into the San Jose topic I made a while back, but it's amazing how inorganic that family is. It was mostly made up of members who transferred from other families or the sons/relatives of members from other families. Very few guys who simply came up on their own in the Bay Area.

[Pogo The Clown]

The DiNunzios were associates in Chicago but were made in New England. I believe Carmen was made in 1997 and Anthony a few years later.


Pogo

[Pogo The Clown]

Carlo Licata - LA, Detroit


Pogo