Al Trucchio

[Wiseguy]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe, especially given the evidence, that the Genovese family was behind Nick Cirillo's disappearance.

Bro. You no comprende? I dont find it hard to believe that a mafia member would have his own kid killed. I just dont believe it in this case.

Well that's basically my point. I think it's a mistake to project your view (which any sane, normal person would have) on this. After all, we're not exactly talking about normal people here. Granted, it's unusual (even for a mafioso) but, given what Cirillo and Dentico told the Bonannos, and what Basciano told Massino, you have to ignore all that to go the other way.

[joeycigars]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe, especially given the evidence, that the Genovese family was behind Nick Cirillo's disappearance.

I see you point and how you get there but ......
I disagree with that summation what evidence ? Why was he killed ,Who Killed him and where is the body ,You cant count any one out at this junction ,

A Cover story and hearsay is not evidence, Did anyone believe Frank Pasquas III story at first that he saw his father shoot Meldish , These guys lie about murder all the time , thats a fact .No body knows who killed Paul ring a bell?

Think about it ....Would Vinny Basciano Kill his son for anything ? Would John Gotti kill his son for anything ? Why is it so hard to believe that Dom Cirillo didnt order it ?

All his life he is "Quiet Dom" then he is the powerful mob Boss who killed his namesake son ...Story Dosent Flush


Did it come from Genovese family maybe.... Was it ordered over the Cicale incident? Very unlikely IMO

, A true Mafia unsolved mystery

[Wiseguy]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe, especially given the evidence, that the Genovese family was behind Nick Cirillo's disappearance.

I see you point and how you get there but ......
I disagree with that summation what evidence ? Why was he killed ,Who Killed him and where is the body ,You cant count any one out at this junction ,

A Cover story and hearsay is not evidence, Did anyone believe Frank Pasquas III story at first that he saw his father shoot Meldish , These guys lie about murder all the time , thats a fact .No body knows who killed Paul ring a bell?

Think about it ....Would Vinny Basciano Kill his son for anything ? Would John Gotti kill his son for anything ? Why is it so hard to believe that Dom Cirillo didnt order it ?

All his life he is "Quiet Dom" then he is the powerful mob Boss who killed his namesake son ...Story Dosent Flush


Did it come from Genovese family maybe.... Was it ordered over the Cicale incident? Very unlikely IMO

, A true Mafia unsolved mystery

From what I've read, there had been issues with Nick Cirillo for a long time and it seems the Cicale incident was just the final straw.

Again, my point is, just because you find it hard to believe a father could give approval for his son's death, that doesn't mean you should just discount the evidence to the contrary. It's more evidence than one just projecting their own value system onto the situation.

[joeycigars]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe, especially given the evidence, that the Genovese family was behind Nick Cirillo's disappearance.

I see you point and how you get there but ......
I disagree with that summation what evidence ? Why was he killed ,Who Killed him and where is the body ,You cant count any one out at this junction ,

A Cover story and hearsay is not evidence, Did anyone believe Frank Pasquas III story at first that he saw his father shoot Meldish , These guys lie about murder all the time , thats a fact .No body knows who killed Paul ring a bell?

Think about it ....Would Vinny Basciano Kill his son for anything ? Would John Gotti kill his son for anything ? Why is it so hard to believe that Dom Cirillo didnt order it ?

All his life he is "Quiet Dom" then he is the powerful mob Boss who killed his namesake son ...Story Dosent Flush


Did it come from Genovese family maybe.... Was it ordered over the Cicale incident? Very unlikely IMO

, A true Mafia unsolved mystery

From what I've read, there had been issues with Nick Cirillo for a long time and it seems the Cicale incident was just the final straw.

Again, my point is, just because you find it hard to believe a father could give approval for his son's death, that doesn't mean you should just discount the evidence to the contrary. It's more evidence than one just projecting their own value system onto the situation.

Who ever did it didnt do it alone , Wonder if it will ever come out , this is like Hoffa to me

[Rocco]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe, especially given the evidence, that the Genovese family was behind Nick Cirillo's disappearance.

I see you point and how you get there but ......
I disagree with that summation what evidence ? Why was he killed ,Who Killed him and where is the body ,You cant count any one out at this junction ,

A Cover story and hearsay is not evidence, Did anyone believe Frank Pasquas III story at first that he saw his father shoot Meldish , These guys lie about murder all the time , thats a fact .No body knows who killed Paul ring a bell?

Think about it ....Would Vinny Basciano Kill his son for anything ? Would John Gotti kill his son for anything ? Why is it so hard to believe that Dom Cirillo didnt order it ?

All his life he is "Quiet Dom" then he is the powerful mob Boss who killed his namesake son ...Story Dosent Flush


Did it come from Genovese family maybe.... Was it ordered over the Cicale incident? Very unlikely IMO

, A true Mafia unsolved mystery

Im coming in Late here. But I always believed that Basciano killed Nick on the Sneak and Cicale was not even told about it.

[Rocco]

I will post them here tomo for you guys re: santos trucchio GL

Also I am in the minority and believe Vinny killed Dom’s son on the sneak. I know wiseguy and pogo will disagree but i firmly believe that it was Basciano for disrespecting his kid. And not cause PB said it either.

I believe Vinny killed him on the sneak as well. and prob not the 1st guy he killed on the sneak either.

[Pogo The Clown]

So why would the Genovese tell the Bonannos on two separate occasions that they know they (the Bonannos) had nothing to do with the murder? That is all but admitting that they (the Genovese) were responsible.


Pogo

[joeycigars]

So why would the Genovese tell the Bonannos on two separate occasions that they know they (the Bonannos) had nothing to do with the murder? That is all but admitting that they (the Genovese) were responsible.


Pogo

What Genovese said that ? Wasn't it a Bonanno who repeated it as fact - Which would be protocol on a hit like that , I never heard a Genovese say it came from Dom, I know it was insinuated at best and recorded from Vinny to Massino ,

[Pogo The Clown]

Again here is the breakdown on how it went down from Cicale's debriefings. Originally posted by JD.

Here is what JD posted from Cicale's debriefings on how it went down.

Around Spring 2004 Dominick Cicale was having renovations done on his real estate office. Cirillo showed up at the office to discuss money owed for the work and Cicale told him to mind his business. Cirillo raised his voice and Cicale slapped him. Cirillo then started toward his vehicle and made a comment about getting a gun. Cicale followed him, held him against the car and started beating him so he couldn't get at any weapons. There was a guy with Cirillo who was still inside the vehicle. He told Cicale there wasn't really a gun inside so he backed off. Both parties left the scene. Almost immediately after they were gone Vincent Basciano Jr. showed up and was questioned by the NYPD who been called to the location and had also just arrived. Cirillo did not hit or threaten Basciano Jr., they weren't there at the same time.

A few hours later Cicale was summoned to meet with Vincent Basciano, Michael Mancuso and an unspecified Genovese member. It was decided since Cirillo didn't actually put his hands on Cicale there was no issue and to let it end there. The Genovese member made a call and Cirillo showed up and apologized to Cicale for his behavior. They shook hands and that was it.

Cirillo was last seen May 9, 2004. Shortly thereafter Cicale met with Basciano and Mancuso. During this meeting Basciano expressed his opinion that the Genovese were taking advantage of the recent situation between Cicale/Cirillo to get rid of Cirillo and have the blame pointed elsewhere. Basciano told Mancuso to meet with one of the Genovese leaders (poss. Lawrence Dentico) and inform them the Bonannos had nothing to do with it. Mancuso and the Genovese met and they told Mancuso they already knew the Bonannos weren't responsible and no further action was taken.

After Cicale was indicted he spent time with Dominick Cirillo at MDC Brooklyn, and Cirillo also told him he knew Cicale had nothing to do with killing his son.

[AntComello]

Again here is the breakdown on how it went down from Cicale's debriefings. Originally posted by JD.

Here is what JD posted from Cicale's debriefings on how it went down.

Around Spring 2004 Dominick Cicale was having renovations done on his real estate office. Cirillo showed up at the office to discuss money owed for the work and Cicale told him to mind his business. Cirillo raised his voice and Cicale slapped him. Cirillo then started toward his vehicle and made a comment about getting a gun. Cicale followed him, held him against the car and started beating him so he couldn't get at any weapons. There was a guy with Cirillo who was still inside the vehicle. He told Cicale there wasn't really a gun inside so he backed off. Both parties left the scene. Almost immediately after they were gone Vincent Basciano Jr. showed up and was questioned by the NYPD who been called to the location and had also just arrived. Cirillo did not hit or threaten Basciano Jr., they weren't there at the same time.

A few hours later Cicale was summoned to meet with Vincent Basciano, Michael Mancuso and an unspecified Genovese member. It was decided since Cirillo didn't actually put his hands on Cicale there was no issue and to let it end there. The Genovese member made a call and Cirillo showed up and apologized to Cicale for his behavior. They shook hands and that was it.

Cirillo was last seen May 9, 2004. Shortly thereafter Cicale met with Basciano and Mancuso. During this meeting Basciano expressed his opinion that the Genovese were taking advantage of the recent situation between Cicale/Cirillo to get rid of Cirillo and have the blame pointed elsewhere. Basciano told Mancuso to meet with one of the Genovese leaders (poss. Lawrence Dentico) and inform them the Bonannos had nothing to do with it. Mancuso and the Genovese met and they told Mancuso they already knew the Bonannos weren't responsible and no further action was taken.

After Cicale was indicted he spent time with Dominick Cirillo at MDC Brooklyn, and Cirillo also told him he knew Cicale had nothing to do with killing his son.

Cicale isn’t the most believable source...and if it really was Vinny then of course he will never admit it and of course he will play dumb about it. He killed a genovese leaders son (allegedly). You have to believe that if there was going to be repercussions from killing a made mans son that the genovese would be the family that you don’t want to fuck with.

[B.]

It'd be strange for Basciano to kill Cirillo because of the alteraction with Cicale but not to inform Cicale, especially given Cicale's involvement in most if not all Basciano murders during that time (one of which was "on the sneak").

Cheech and anyone is welcome to their own take, not trying to shut anyone's opinion down, but Cicale is the best available source on the murder.

This shows the problem with how a story initially gets reported vs. once the facts are available. Various outlets made it out that Basciano either killed the son or at least made it much more ambiguous (with some incorrect info thrown in), so people already have the story formed in their mind. It's like the Sonny Black murder -- people have heard Pistone's dramatized version so many times for decades that it's hard to reconcile the more recent evidence that it played out differently.

[B.]

Are there actual lies Cicale has been caught in, or do people just not like him?

[joeycigars]

Again here is the breakdown on how it went down from Cicale's debriefings. Originally posted by JD.

Here is what JD posted from Cicale's debriefings on how it went down.

Around Spring 2004 Dominick Cicale was having renovations done on his real estate office. Cirillo showed up at the office to discuss money owed for the work and Cicale told him to mind his business. Cirillo raised his voice and Cicale slapped him. Cirillo then started toward his vehicle and made a comment about getting a gun. Cicale followed him, held him against the car and started beating him so he couldn't get at any weapons. There was a guy with Cirillo who was still inside the vehicle. He told Cicale there wasn't really a gun inside so he backed off. Both parties left the scene. Almost immediately after they were gone Vincent Basciano Jr. showed up and was questioned by the NYPD who been called to the location and had also just arrived. Cirillo did not hit or threaten Basciano Jr., they weren't there at the same time.

A few hours later Cicale was summoned to meet with Vincent Basciano, Michael Mancuso and an unspecified Genovese member. It was decided since Cirillo didn't actually put his hands on Cicale there was no issue and to let it end there. The Genovese member made a call and Cirillo showed up and apologized to Cicale for his behavior. They shook hands and that was it.

Cirillo was last seen May 9, 2004. Shortly thereafter Cicale met with Basciano and Mancuso. During this meeting Basciano expressed his opinion that the Genovese were taking advantage of the recent situation between Cicale/Cirillo to get rid of Cirillo and have the blame pointed elsewhere. Basciano told Mancuso to meet with one of the Genovese leaders (poss. Lawrence Dentico) and inform them the Bonannos had nothing to do with it. Mancuso and the Genovese met and they told Mancuso they already knew the Bonannos weren't responsible and no further action was taken.

After Cicale was indicted he spent time with Dominick Cirillo at MDC Brooklyn, and Cirillo also told him he knew Cicale had nothing to do with killing his son.

...Just coming from Bonanno's as hearsay ,

Pogo , You been around a long time ,So I ask you .... Would you expect Dominick Cirillo at MDC Brooklyn to say to Cicale "We think You killed the son of a boss " Not gonna happen whether DOM knew or not ,

Basciano told Mancuso to meet with one of the Genovese leaders , What leader ? No Genovese leader ever came out and said it on record , ...Just the Bonanno's repeating same story

Maybe Vinny JR made his bones on the Cirillo hit , And Vinny SR never wanted Cicale to know

[B.]

Maybe Vinny JR made his bones on the Cirillo hit , And Vinny SR never wanted Cicale to know

Maybe Vinny Basciano Sr. recruited Sal Montagna to bring the Montreal crew to NYC where they butchered Cirillo and buried him under Yankee Stadium. We don't know for sure, so it might be true.

[joeycigars]

Maybe Vinny JR made his bones on the Cirillo hit , And Vinny SR never wanted Cicale to know

Maybe Vinny Basciano Sr. recruited Sal Montagna to bring the Montreal crew to NYC where they butchered Cirillo and buried him under Yankee Stadium. We don't know for sure, so it might be true.

I heard some guy from Montreal hide in a closet and killed 3 captains in NYC so who knows anything is possible