General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[SolarSolano]

I don't know much about Del Duca but I realized he died in 1960, which predates Rocky's stay in New York, although that doesn't preclude them from association at an earlier time. Infelise was born in Wisconsin and moved to Chicago after he got out of the service so I'm not sure when he began his connection with New York.

When did Infelise stay in NYC? His power came through his wife's father Tony Capezio - I'm surprised if he was drifting into another family.

He owed 40k in juice loans to higher ups in Chicago so he skipped town until he got right with his debt. He stayed in New York from 1962-63 and did some hijacking and possibly made a few narcotics deals. He went back a few times over the next few years.

Interesting I did not know that. I did know he did work with Corky Vastola in NJ and was present at that Lucchese family funeral for Joey Narrows or something it was in the Tribune years ago.

[B.]

If the guy's name isn't Rocky, he might be the "Frankie" described at the end as close to Giancana.

[Snakes]

If the guy's name isn't Rocky, he might be the "Frankie" described at the end as close to Giancana.

I thought that may have been in reference to Frank Ferraro, underboss of the Outfit at that time.

[cavita]

If the guy's name isn't Rocky, he might be the "Frankie" described at the end as close to Giancana.

I thought that may have been in reference to Frank Ferraro, underboss of the Outfit at that time.

I was thinking Frankie was in reference to Frank Sinatra.

[PolackTony]

If the guy's name isn't Rocky, he might be the "Frankie" described at the end as close to Giancana.

I thought that may have been in reference to Frank Ferraro, underboss of the Outfit at that time.

I was thinking Frankie was in reference to Frank Sinatra.

Bingo. It's relevant also that this convo was in the Sinatra file.

[Snakes]

If the guy's name isn't Rocky, he might be the "Frankie" described at the end as close to Giancana.

I thought that may have been in reference to Frank Ferraro, underboss of the Outfit at that time.

I was thinking Frankie was in reference to Frank Sinatra.

Bingo. It's relevant also that this convo was in the Sinatra file.

Ah, that makes sense.

[B.]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

[Villain]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

anything is possible with the US mob....

Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction, meaning it might be a NY guy instead of a Chicago one?

[PolackTony]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

“He’s been around so long, he should be made. He hears everything we talk about.”

Frank Sinatra — the singing Johnny Roselli.

[PolackTony]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

anything is possible with the US mob....

Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction, meaning it might be a NY guy instead of a Chicago one?

At this point who knows lol. All we know is that whoever he was, Chicago wasn’t going to make him because they didn’t make nobody over there.

If they did, they’d have to give him a Caddy and a house.

[Villain]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

anything is possible with the US mob....

Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction, meaning it might be a NY guy instead of a Chicago one?

At this point who knows lol. All we know is that whoever he was, Chicago wasn’t going to make him because they didn’t make nobody over there.

If they did, they’d have to give him a Caddy and a house.

Lol I think someone from Chicago was feeding these NY guys with false info, mainly because there were guys who were made in the Outfit during that same time period.

[PolackTony]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

anything is possible with the US mob....

Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction, meaning it might be a NY guy instead of a Chicago one?

At this point who knows lol. All we know is that whoever he was, Chicago wasn’t going to make him because they didn’t make nobody over there.

If they did, they’d have to give him a Caddy and a house.

Lol I think someone from Chicago was feeding these NY guys with false info, mainly because there were guys who were made in the Outfit during that same time period.

Sure, I don’t see this kind of chatter as reflecting any perfectly accurate info. But the broad strokes are probably correct. Chicago had a comparatively very small number of made men for the size and power of its syndicate, and they made guys relatively infrequently and sparingly (aside from the 1956 inductions, which was like the Taylor St faction Young Turk takeover).

This info here was coming at the same time that the Feds thought Chicago had 300 members. My belief is that 50 actually wasn’t far off.

[Villain]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

anything is possible with the US mob....

Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction, meaning it might be a NY guy instead of a Chicago one?

At this point who knows lol. All we know is that whoever he was, Chicago wasn’t going to make him because they didn’t make nobody over there.

If they did, they’d have to give him a Caddy and a house.

Lol I think someone from Chicago was feeding these NY guys with false info, mainly because there were guys who were made in the Outfit during that same time period.

Sure, I don’t see this kind of chatter as reflecting any perfectly accurate info. But the broad strokes are probably correct. Chicago had a comparatively very small number of made men for the size and power of its syndicate, and they made guys relatively infrequently and sparingly (aside from the 1956 inductions, which was like the Taylor St faction Young Turk takeover).

This info here was coming at the same time that the Feds thought Chicago had 300 members. My belief is that 50 actually wasn’t far off.

I agree, although if we also count some of the surviving old Capone members, the number might get bigger

[PolackTony]

So they're asking why Frank Sinatra hasn't been straightened out yet.

(....)

anything is possible with the US mob....

Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction, meaning it might be a NY guy instead of a Chicago one?

At this point who knows lol. All we know is that whoever he was, Chicago wasn’t going to make him because they didn’t make nobody over there.

If they did, they’d have to give him a Caddy and a house.

Lol I think someone from Chicago was feeding these NY guys with false info, mainly because there were guys who were made in the Outfit during that same time period.

Sure, I don’t see this kind of chatter as reflecting any perfectly accurate info. But the broad strokes are probably correct. Chicago had a comparatively very small number of made men for the size and power of its syndicate, and they made guys relatively infrequently and sparingly (aside from the 1956 inductions, which was like the Taylor St faction Young Turk takeover).

This info here was coming at the same time that the Feds thought Chicago had 300 members. My belief is that 50 actually wasn’t far off.

I agree, although if we also count some of the surviving old Capone members, the number might get bigger

True, but my guess is somewhere between like 50 to 80ish made members at their peak.

[B.]

I doubt they meant the statement too literally -- they were basically saying Chicago was a smaller mafia organization (in terms of made members) that was exclusive about offering formal membership. This conversation follows the period where NYC members felt far too many unqualified members had been inducted in their own area, so Chicago's practices would have stood out to them.

Looking back at the transcript that was posted, is there other context on the next page that points to "Frankie" being Sinatra? They are talking about why the unidentified associate hasn't been made, and DeCarlo seems to bring up Giancana in that context, asking "What about Moonie?" He seems to be asking why Giancana doesn't induct the guy, and then points out that Giancana hangs around with "Frankie". Unless there is something that clearly points to Sinatra, I still think "Frankie" could be the name of the associate given the context of the conversation.

I know you said the file is in the Sinatra sub-section on Mary Ferrell, but plenty of random information ends up in those sub-sections that has nothing to do with the subject.