Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[CabriniGreen]

See my point above - for some investigators the Violi are with the 'ndrangheta today due to their double past. And Luppino was both, with Buffalo and with Toronto Sidernesi, so why can't the Violi be also both?

Mafiosi can only serve one master. Whenever it was Giacomo Luppino was made into the Buffalo family he most likely would have had to renounce membership in his previous Ndrina. Though with his knowledge of Ndrangheta members customs and internal politics he was able to serve as the conduit between the Buffalo Cosa Nostra and the Canadian Ndrangheta. Now it's not all black and white and I do believe Giacomo was allowed to keep some sort of honorary status within the Ndrangheta to help facilitate high level discussions in the same way Ndrangheta bosses had been previously made in Sicily. The difference being Giacomo became a full Cosa Nostra member subservient to the Buffalo family and the Ndrangheta bosses who got made into Cosa Nostra stayed Ndrangheta bosses.

It's clear Violi is 100% Buffalo Cosa Nostra. I doubt with a grandfather father and uncles all Cosa Nostra members he was even eligible for Ndrangheta membership. Remember Joe Violi was deciding between Buffalo and Bonannos not Buffalo, Bonannos and Sidernesi. It seems like for whatever reasons joining the Ndrangheta was not a viable path for them.

I kinda disagree with this notion that Ndrangheta is some kind of inferior to Cosa Nostra. In the 70s, absolutely. In 2021? I'm not so sure.....

Also Johhny, you know the Destefano, Piromalli, the Mancusos with maxi trial going on right now.... THEY ARE ALL COSA NOSTRA....as well as Ndrangheta, but to be fair, it is in Italy...

[calabrianwatch]

See my point above - for some investigators the Violi are with the 'ndrangheta today due to their double past. And Luppino was both, with Buffalo and with Toronto Sidernesi, so why can't the Violi be also both?

Mafiosi can only serve one master. Whenever it was Giacomo Luppino was made into the Buffalo family he most likely would have had to renounce membership in his previous Ndrina. Though with his knowledge of Ndrangheta members customs and internal politics he was able to serve as the conduit between the Buffalo Cosa Nostra and the Canadian Ndrangheta. Now it's not all black and white and I do believe Giacomo was allowed to keep some sort of honorary status within the Ndrangheta to help facilitate high level discussions in the same way Ndrangheta bosses had been previously made in Sicily. The difference being Giacomo became a full Cosa Nostra member subservient to the Buffalo family and the Ndrangheta bosses who got made into Cosa Nostra stayed Ndrangheta bosses.

It's clear Violi is 100% Buffalo Cosa Nostra. I doubt with a grandfather father and uncles all Cosa Nostra members he was even eligible for Ndrangheta membership. Remember Joe Violi was deciding between Buffalo and Bonannos not Buffalo, Bonannos and Sidernesi. It seems like for whatever reasons joining the Ndrangheta was not a viable path for them.

I kinda disagree with this notion that Ndrangheta is some kind of inferior to Cosa Nostra. In the 70s, absolutely. In 2021? I'm not so sure.....

Also Johhny, you know the Destefano, Piromalli, the Mancusos with maxi trial going on right now.... THEY ARE ALL COSA NOSTRA....as well as Ndrangheta, but to be fair, it is in Italy...

Definitely not inferior and definitely not in Ontario today. Up until the mid-1990s, in Italy, all the main bosses of the 'ndrangheta were affiliated to Cosa Nostra - so this is something that up until the 90s was a very common thing. Right now, not anymore. But it goes to say that those who in the 80s, or even 70s were dealing with Canada from Italy would have expected some sort of duplicity.

[Villain]

It's done for Chicago all the time

Dont go there....all the time? Really? Maybe for Scott's reports...not for me or any of the Chi researchers on this forum

[Angelo Santino]

It's done for Chicago all the time

Dont go there....all the time? Really? Maybe for Scott's reports...not for me or any of the Chi researchers on this forum

Didn't say you nor was I thinking of you. I'm referring to the books I've read and Antiliar's own statement that many people previously suspected of being made turns out they weren't, based on his discussions with Magnifichi.

[Villain]

It's done for Chicago all the time

Dont go there....all the time? Really? Maybe for Scott's reports...not for me or any of the Chi researchers on this forum

Didn't say you nor was I thinking of you. I'm referring to the books I've read and Antiliar's own statement that many people previously suspected of being made turns out they weren't, based on his discussions with Magnifichi.

Thats completely the opposite of "all the time"

[Angelo Santino]

It's done for Chicago all the time

Dont go there....all the time? Really? Maybe for Scott's reports...not for me or any of the Chi researchers on this forum

Didn't say you nor was I thinking of you. I'm referring to the books I've read and Antiliar's own statement that many people previously suspected of being made turns out they weren't, based on his discussions with Magnifichi.

Thats completely the opposite of "all the time"

Roemer, Scott, The Outfit book. That to me is all the time. Again, that wasn't towards you. If it was, I'd respectfully address you directly, to do otherwise would be a passive aggressive snipe and I don't do that.

[Villain]

It's done for Chicago all the time

Dont go there....all the time? Really? Maybe for Scott's reports...not for me or any of the Chi researchers on this forum

Didn't say you nor was I thinking of you. I'm referring to the books I've read and Antiliar's own statement that many people previously suspected of being made turns out they weren't, based on his discussions with Magnifichi.

Thats completely the opposite of "all the time"

Roemer, Scott, The Outfit book. That to me is all the time. Again, that wasn't towards you. If it was, I'd respectfully address you directly, to do otherwise would be a passive aggressive snipe and I don't do that.

I wasnt asking for a sorry from you, nor I give a fuck if the Buffalo crew is alive or not...all im saying is that maybe you should give rest to Scott or Roemer and pay attention to the Outfit info on this forum and dont mix the Outfit in the same situation like in this thread, especially when it comes down to made guys because from 1931 until the early 70s the Outfit didnt give a fuck if you were Sicilian or Japanese, nor if someone was organizational or operational..lots of specifics if you know what im saying here....no disrespect...keep up the good convo

[NickleCity]

The Buffalo New posted this story about a NYS Supreme Court Judge who was hit by a freight train: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crim ... 66ee0.html

It caught my attention because Dan Herbeck and Lou Michel were the authors--not their type of story. They are on the The News' watchdog team and have been investigating and reporting on the Feds inquiry into organized crime in Buffalo.

Then I remembered something Peter Gerace's ex-wife posted on Facebook on March 1. She wrote:

I was illegally married by State Supreme Court Justice John Michalski on Sept 18th the last know Don of the mafia bday. Pharaohs anniversary party was the 17th. I was wasted on jager, woke up married and the 24hr wait period was skipped. His brother Anthony was a witness who wasn't there and his name was forged along with a major medical surgery lie. This should have never happened. Hell began and omg what I've been through.

Today, she posted the following:

More Breaking News:
Feds examining friendship between judge and indicted strip club owner

Link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crim ... e43dd7c87d

Another update:

Depew police say judge was pedestrian when he was hit by train
By Dan Herbeck, Lou Michel

“No automobile was involved when a State Supreme Court judge was struck by a freight train and injured in Depew, village police said Tuesday in their first comments on the incident nine days ago.

“Depew police on Tuesday confirmed John L. Michalski was struck by the CSX train on Feb. 28, and called him a pedestrian.”

Snip

“Detectives are investigating to determine why Michalski wound up in the path of the train, authorities told The Buffalo News.”

Link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/depe ... e-breaking

[NickleCity]

^^^^Dan and Lou updated their story:
"State Supreme Court Justice John L. Michalski either fell or lay down on railroad tracks shortly before a freight train hit him nine days ago, according to three law enforcement sources.

The judge was not standing upright or walking when the train hit him, the sources told The Buffalo News."

Snip

"Detectives are investigating to determine why Michalski wound up in the path of the train, authorities told The Buffalo News.

Detectives are trying to figure out how the judge got to the scene from his Amherst home, said one law enforcement official familiar with the case. The judge resides about 7 miles from the Amtrak station in Depew."

[johnny_scootch]

See my point above - for some investigators the Violi are with the 'ndrangheta today due to their double past. And Luppino was both, with Buffalo and with Toronto Sidernesi, so why can't the Violi be also both?

Mafiosi can only serve one master. Whenever it was Giacomo Luppino was made into the Buffalo family he most likely would have had to renounce membership in his previous Ndrina. Though with his knowledge of Ndrangheta members customs and internal politics he was able to serve as the conduit between the Buffalo Cosa Nostra and the Canadian Ndrangheta. Now it's not all black and white and I do believe Giacomo was allowed to keep some sort of honorary status within the Ndrangheta to help facilitate high level discussions in the same way Ndrangheta bosses had been previously made in Sicily. The difference being Giacomo became a full Cosa Nostra member subservient to the Buffalo family and the Ndrangheta bosses who got made into Cosa Nostra stayed Ndrangheta bosses.

It's clear Violi is 100% Buffalo Cosa Nostra. I doubt with a grandfather father and uncles all Cosa Nostra members he was even eligible for Ndrangheta membership. Remember Joe Violi was deciding between Buffalo and Bonannos not Buffalo, Bonannos and Sidernesi. It seems like for whatever reasons joining the Ndrangheta was not a viable path for them.

I actually disagree with this. I know for a fact (as in I have the documents) that Giacomo Luppino was in the chamber of control of GTA Ndrangheta which means that he had to be a member - you cannot sit at that table without membership. You cannot exit the 'ndrangheta - you don't renounce it - there is no such a thing as 'knowing members customs and internal politics' - you probably don't know how the 'Ndrangheta and the Siderno group actually work. Indeed I am not saying that Violi was made into the 'ndrangheta. the 'ndrangheta does not 'make' people - you are either born into it (and the Violi are as well as Luppino was) or you are married into it. What kind of career you do inside it is a different story. So, to get back to your point - while Giacomo Luppino was definitely both in my view - and it was allowed to be both because of the particular status of Hamilton families (note that all three kind of were their own thing) the Violi, albeit formally made into Buffalo (and I don't dispute that) can probably be drawn into some sort of 'ndrangheta circle - not at the top for sure, and probably solely for business, but they are.

Good response. I agree Giacomo Luppino was both but was he both at the same time? Can you be fully devoted to both Cosa Nostra and the Ndrangheta at the same time? For arguments sake and to illustrate my point say Magaddino who is Luppino's boss in Cosa Nostra orders him to kill all of the Ndrangheta bosses on the chamber of control. What does he do?

Technically you can't even be a member of the Sicilian Cosa Nostra and American Cosa Nostra at the same time and they're sister organizations that allow transfer in certain cases. I don't think it would be any different when talking about American Cosa Nostra and the Ndrangheta except in this case the transfer method isn't an option and so these odd hybrid guys like Luppino came into existence.

[NickleCity]

^^^^
From WIVB 4 in Buffalo

"The source, who asked not to be identified, said the FBI agent asked a lot of questions about alleged prostitution, the Outlaws Motorcycle Club, specific parties that Gerace Jr. allegedly put on, and whether the person saw any judges or attorneys at these parties. Members of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club worked at Pharaoh’s, court records state."]

Additionally this article states: "The charges are part of a decade-long federal investigation into local ties to Italian Organized Crime, according to court records."

Link: https://www.wivb.com/news/police-state- ... -by-train/

[calabrianwatch]

See my point above - for some investigators the Violi are with the 'ndrangheta today due to their double past. And Luppino was both, with Buffalo and with Toronto Sidernesi, so why can't the Violi be also both?

Mafiosi can only serve one master. Whenever it was Giacomo Luppino was made into the Buffalo family he most likely would have had to renounce membership in his previous Ndrina. Though with his knowledge of Ndrangheta members customs and internal politics he was able to serve as the conduit between the Buffalo Cosa Nostra and the Canadian Ndrangheta. Now it's not all black and white and I do believe Giacomo was allowed to keep some sort of honorary status within the Ndrangheta to help facilitate high level discussions in the same way Ndrangheta bosses had been previously made in Sicily. The difference being Giacomo became a full Cosa Nostra member subservient to the Buffalo family and the Ndrangheta bosses who got made into Cosa Nostra stayed Ndrangheta bosses.

It's clear Violi is 100% Buffalo Cosa Nostra. I doubt with a grandfather father and uncles all Cosa Nostra members he was even eligible for Ndrangheta membership. Remember Joe Violi was deciding between Buffalo and Bonannos not Buffalo, Bonannos and Sidernesi. It seems like for whatever reasons joining the Ndrangheta was not a viable path for them.

I actually disagree with this. I know for a fact (as in I have the documents) that Giacomo Luppino was in the chamber of control of GTA Ndrangheta which means that he had to be a member - you cannot sit at that table without membership. You cannot exit the 'ndrangheta - you don't renounce it - there is no such a thing as 'knowing members customs and internal politics' - you probably don't know how the 'Ndrangheta and the Siderno group actually work. Indeed I am not saying that Violi was made into the 'ndrangheta. the 'ndrangheta does not 'make' people - you are either born into it (and the Violi are as well as Luppino was) or you are married into it. What kind of career you do inside it is a different story. So, to get back to your point - while Giacomo Luppino was definitely both in my view - and it was allowed to be both because of the particular status of Hamilton families (note that all three kind of were their own thing) the Violi, albeit formally made into Buffalo (and I don't dispute that) can probably be drawn into some sort of 'ndrangheta circle - not at the top for sure, and probably solely for business, but they are.

Good response. I agree Giacomo Luppino was both but was he both at the same time? Can you be fully devoted to both Cosa Nostra and the Ndrangheta at the same time? For arguments sake and to illustrate my point say Magaddino who is Luppino's boss in Cosa Nostra orders him to kill all of the Ndrangheta bosses on the chamber of control. What does he do?

Technically you can't even be a member of the Sicilian Cosa Nostra and American Cosa Nostra at the same time and they're sister organizations that allow transfer in certain cases. I don't think it would be any different when talking about American Cosa Nostra and the Ndrangheta except in this case the transfer method isn't an option and so these odd hybrid guys like Luppino came into existence.

Things with the ndrangheta and with Ontario ndrangheta are different..

What I know is
- In the early 1960s, Luppino was capodecina of the Hamilton faction under buffalo and Magaddino.
- in early 60s he was nominating people like Cosimo Stalteri from Siderno into the chamber of control of the ndrangheta in Sider o
- in early 70s he was invited to a ceremony in Toronto for an initiation ceremony of the son of Michele Commisso and other new ndrangheta member (which indicates he was part of the Copiata or indeed something similar to the copiata for Siderno).
-In 1971 he acted as mediator to calm things down when a series of men (racco, commisso boy. de Leo - an associate of Remo Commisso all ndrangheta men) got into a shooting
This shows he had a high ranking in the ndrangheta (this function is for high rankings)
This is to say that yes, he was clearly in both. I think the whole point is that the chamber of control was supposed to act to prevent those situation of families vs one another. Having a double status in both organisation was not uncommon in those years essentially because in the ndrangheta you are born you are not made so technically you don’t have a conflict of interest if you play at high levels.

[Stroccos]

^^^^Dan and Lou updated their story:
"State Supreme Court Justice John L. Michalski either fell or lay down on railroad tracks shortly before a freight train hit him nine days ago, according to three law enforcement sources.

The judge was not standing upright or walking when the train hit him, the sources told The Buffalo News."

Snip

"Detectives are investigating to determine why Michalski wound up in the path of the train, authorities told The Buffalo News.

Detectives are trying to figure out how the judge got to the scene from his Amherst home, said one law enforcement official familiar with the case. The judge resides about 7 miles from the Amtrak station in Depew."

Sounds like a sucicide or if we want to put our tinfoil hat on someone drugged him and put him there

[Wiseguy]

Using the New Orleans example, they have reportedly one made member still alive in Joseph Gagliano. He may not be active today in running mafia-style crimes, but if an outside family wants to setup shop down in the Crescent City, they’d likely still be required to ask Gagliano for permission to operate.

So, to the current made members in the Five Families (and others), New Orleans is still an active family. There’s a representative in New Orleans who is their point of contact in the city. But, in reality there’s very likely zero active LCN rackets left in New Orleans today.

I'm not sure that's automatically the case. Going into the 1990s, the New Orleans family was basically finished but there were still some members left. According to Gravano, if I remember correctly, the New York families (specifically the Gambinos and Genovese) saw this as an opening. In fact, Gravano was told not to worry about the Marcellos because "they don't mean nothin' down here anymore."

Fast forward a few years, members and associates of the Gambino, Genovese, and New Orleans families were rounded up in the video poker bust, as they had ended up working together after all, but it appeared the NY families were going to get involved in the local video gambling racket regardless of what anyone there said.

It's anecdotal but you also have DiLeonardo's account of the time he met with Pete Milano and how he made it clear Milano, despite being the boss in LA, wasn't in a position to make demands of anyone coming into that area.

In both cases, one would think formal protocol would mean the NY families had to touch base, get approval, etc. from the mafiosi in these areas. But the actual state of both the New Orleans and Los Angeles families obviously was a major factor in how they were approached and dealt with.

[Pogo The Clown]

Using the New Orleans example, they have reportedly one made member still alive in Joseph Gagliano. He may not be active today in running mafia-style crimes, but if an outside family wants to setup shop down in the Crescent City, they’d likely still be required to ask Gagliano for permission to operate.

So, to the current made members in the Five Families (and others), New Orleans is still an active family. There’s a representative in New Orleans who is their point of contact in the city. But, in reality there’s very likely zero active LCN rackets left in New Orleans today.

I'm not sure that's automatically the case. Going into the 1990s, the New Orleans family was basically finished but there were still some members left. According to Gravano, if I remember correctly, the New York families (specifically the Gambinos and Genovese) saw this as an opening. In fact, Gravano was told not to worry about the Marcellos because "they don't mean nothin' down here anymore."

Fast forward a few years, members and associates of the Gambino, Genovese, and New Orleans families were rounded up in the video poker bust, as they had ended up working together after all, but it appeared the NY families were going to get involved in the local video gambling racket regardless of what anyone there said.

It's anecdotal but you also have DiLeonardo's account of the time he met with Pete Milano and how he made it clear Milano, despite being the boss in LA, wasn't in a position to make demands of anyone coming into that area.

In both cases, one would think formal protocol would mean the NY families had to touch base, get approval, etc. from the mafiosi in these areas. But the actual state of both the New Orleans and Los Angeles families obviously was a major factor in how they were approached and dealt with.

Of course for years the California families were so weak that NY and Chicago regularly set up shop in their territory without any regard for them. Frattiano talks about it in his book. When gambling was legalized in AC the NY families moved in despite the it being longtime Philly territory. More recently we have seen the Genovese family set up a sports book right in Philly itself.


When Cleveland was on its last leg in the 1980s Pittsburgh saw the opportunity to move in on their rackets in Youngstown. This led to some violence between the two.


Pogo