antimafia wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:00 am
Please let me know whether you hit a paywall when tapping/clicking on the link below, in which case I'll try to find another URL.
Police still seeking Toronto man in wake of massive Canadian-Italian Mafia investigation
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:42 pm
Whatever the case, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong by quoting her. I thought that was the professional thing to do rather than take her out of context. Admittedly I do feel guilty that she feels betrayed by it. My inquiry was about what she labeled about Buffalo, not what her work centers on.
The thing is..... I think she was taken a little out of context, that's why I tried to explain that what she said has nothing to do with Double Affiliation or switching organizations. I think shes just repeating what Law Enforcement told her, in a very collegiate type way. Wordy, I guess would be a better description.
Double Affiliation was a theory trying to understand the dynamics of Mafiosi strategically placed in NY, conducting Sicilian mafia OPERATIONS, under the jurisdiction of American Cosa Nostra ORGANIZATIONS. It's a bit like asking, if I'm running Chevy supply lines into the US, in Toyotas market, do I answer to Toyota? Or does Chevy send a " US" rep or manager or whatever to oversee the operations? That was really the crux of it, its baffling to me how it offended people ...... Frank Coppola was actually the one I wanted to start with.....
That's what I was trying to tell Wiseguy, shes saying basically the same thing as him, it seems he wants to argue with her. And I'm sure she ain't got time for that bullshit. Shes no forum troll, like, bruh, lol. (The funny part is I'm pretty sure she doesnt give a fuck really about Buffalo, lol. ) And I see now that's kind of a thing, Sergi, Lamothe, Scott... I dont get it.... yall hate all the journalist, lol ...
- US and Sicilian mafia members are part of Cosa Nostra. They can be introduced to each other as "amico nostra" and in some cases transfers are still arranged.
- The Buffalo mafia is also Cosa Nostra. Their Ontario members are naturally part of Cosa Nostra. The Bonanno family (and according to Violi, other NYC families) still recognize Buffalo as Cosa Nostra. They recognize Violi in Ontario as an "amico nostra" and the Bonannos allowed Violi to attend a Cosa Nostra induction meeting.
- There is reason to believe 'ndranghetesi can be inducted into Cosa Nostra. They are not the same organization, so an introduction or transfer is not possible, but in select cases it appears an 'ndrangheta member can be part of both groups, not unlike a street gang member receiving entry into Cosa Nostra -- the same logic applies even though the 'ndrangheta is far from a street gang.
- A Cosa Nostra family does not become something else, either by osmosis or choice. It doesn't matter how many 'ndranghetesi are in Ontario, they must join Cosa Nostra to be recognized as "amico nostra." Joe Todaro Jr.'s Buffalo family is the same Cosa Nostra family formerly headed by Joe Todaro's father Joe Sr., his great-uncle Sam Frangiamore, and Stefano Magaddino. It is a smaller family, but it's the same family with the same organizational history, rules, protocol, and system of recognition.
- A Cosa Nostra family can temporarily lose its recognition by other Cosa Nostra groups, or if a Cosa Nostra faction attempts to break off and form a new family, they are not considered official until they receive recognition from other Cosa Nostra groups, in this case NYC. The Rochester decina of Buffalo attempted to form their own borgata and never received recognition from the Commission despite forming their own hierarchy and inducting new members. We have no information suggesting the Buffalo family ever lost its formal recognition and recent information confirms they are recognized by NYC families.
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- Joe Todaro Jr. is a lot like recent generations of Genovese bosses in that he doesn't need money from active criminal enterprises to make a living. He went to college in Erie for Hotel Management, took over his father's successful pizzeria, and runs his father's high-end hotel in Florida, the Diplomat. However, he is a third generation Cosa Nostra rappresentante and according to recordings of his underboss, Domenico Violi, Todaro uses his Florida base to administer affairs of the organization, like his father reportedly did. This also fits with Phil Leonetti's information about the Todaros in the mid-1980s, when Colombo soldier Joe Gorgone introduced Leonetti to both Todaros as "amico nostra" inside of the Diplomat hotel.
- Flash forward to the mid-2010s, where Domenico Violi was introduced to a new "amico nostra" in the Bonanno family and told him the name of the boss (Todaro Jr.), his own rank as underboss, the name of at least one capodecina, and an estimate of thirty made members. He described receiving his promotion to underboss in Florida, a decision that required consultation with NYC mafia leaders due to Violi's residence in Canada. This is the same family Stefano Magaddino ran, but much smaller than the Magaddino days, when the family is believed to have peaked at over 100 members.
- While I await further details and confirmation, wording from the recent arrest suggests that Joe Todaro Jr. may have brought his nephew Peter Gerace into this Cosa Nostra family. Gerace is an Italian-American criminal and as a third generation Cosa Nostra boss himself, it is logical to believe Joe Todaro Jr. brought a fourth generation into the organization. Like the boss position itself, Todaro would not do this to make money, but because membership in Cosa Nostra is part of his bloodline and he wishes to continue the tradition in some capacity. Regardless of the success Joe Todaro Sr. and Jr. have experienced as businessmen, evidence shows that directing the affairs of Cosa Nostra -- in whatever capacity it still exists -- is a core part of their personal identity and perhaps even a duty they must uphold.
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All of the above are some of the many reasons I find this subject so fascinating after all of these years.
As for the recent news, well, let's just give a round of applause for that SWEET, SWEET "IN YOUR FACE" COSA NOSTRA... HYEAAAAAAAH.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:42 pm
Whatever the case, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong by quoting her. I thought that was the professional thing to do rather than take her out of context. Admittedly I do feel guilty that she feels betrayed by it. My inquiry was about what she labeled about Buffalo, not what her work centers on.
The thing is..... I think she was taken a little out of context, that's why I tried to explain that what she said has nothing to do with Double Affiliation or switching organizations. I think shes just repeating what Law Enforcement told her, in a very collegiate type way. Wordy, I guess would be a better description.
Double Affiliation was a theory trying to understand the dynamics of Mafiosi strategically placed in NY, conducting Sicilian mafia OPERATIONS, under the jurisdiction of American Cosa Nostra ORGANIZATIONS. It's a bit like asking, if I'm running Chevy supply lines into the US, in Toyotas market, do I answer to Toyota? Or does Chevy send a " US" rep or manager or whatever to oversee the operations? That was really the crux of it, its baffling to me how it offended people ...... Frank Coppola was actually the one I wanted to start with.....
That's what I was trying to tell Wiseguy, shes saying basically the same thing as him, it seems he wants to argue with her. And I'm sure she ain't got time for that bullshit. Shes no forum troll, like, bruh, lol. (The funny part is I'm pretty sure she doesnt give a fuck really about Buffalo, lol. ) And I see now that's kind of a thing, Sergi, Lamothe, Scott... I dont get it.... yall hate all the journalist, lol ...
Not from me she wasn't, which is why I originally posted her responses verbatim to avoid taking her out of context... Nor did I see Wiseguy say anything besides stating he's not sure that he agrees with her. That's nothing new. I could say Barney Bellomo is the best boss in history and Wiseguy would correct me and "go on to say x, y and zed" about the man. Wiseguy's gonna Wiseguy.
And no, she was speaking of double affiliations, using the term "hybrid." In her Canadian research she has uncovered connections leading to Buffalo/Todaros which causes her to question "where their affiliations lay."
My response- and she may not have agreed and that's fine, I respect her regardless and hope the feeling is mutual- is that networking/connections are not the same as affiliation. And I again raise Joe Sodano- Philly member who worked extensively with the Genoveses, him doing that didn't "organically" switch him to the west side nor make him a hybrid member. His affiliation was Philly. This again goes back to the fact that this secret society does not put out a press release, we are left to observe, and guilt by association doesn't equate to affiliation. It may look grey to us but its very black and white to its members.
I wish Ms. Sergi the best in her work and look forward to reading it and feel we all have much to learn from her. She's hesitant to call herself an expert but I would argue that she is.
Pennisi's meeting with the 'ndrangheta comes to mind. It was a purely social interaction, where they wanted him to sit at their table and say hello. He said there was no official introduction or exchange of organizational info, only that they both knew each other by sight and wanted to enjoy each others' company.
An outsider might see that through the outside window and say, "The Lucchese family is making a deal with the 'ndrangheta. I bet it's drug trafficking! Or maybe they're joining forces." The reality is, men from a similar walk of life wanted to socialize and it opens a networking opportunity. If one of the 'ndranghetesi wanted to start a restaurant and needed a linen service, maybe he'd ask the Cosa Nostra member if he knew someone. Maybe if he felt comfortable, he could mention drugs. Or nothing. Either way, it has no organizational impact but the sky's the limit when it comes to anything else.
Ontario is different given the local figures have personal ties to both groups, but we all learned something when Domenico Violi was busted in Canada. He's a Cosa Nostra underboss to a guy who runs a Buffalo pizzeria and a Florida hotel. A guy whose delivery drivers have "Go get your f'n shinebox!" on the back of their hats. It is what it is, but either way it's Cosa Nostra.
NickleCity wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:21 am
^^^Conspiracy to sex trafficking children by force... Nasty!
Doesn't Geraci own a strip club? I bet he had some 16 or 17 year-old girls working there. Maybe management expected the girls to perform "extra" work during private dances.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:43 amThe thing is..... I think she was taken a little out of context, that's why I tried to explain that what she said has nothing to do with Double Affiliation or switching organizations. I think shes just repeating what Law Enforcement told her, in a very collegiate type way. Wordy, I guess would be a better description.
Double Affiliation was a theory trying to understand the dynamics of Mafiosi strategically placed in NY, conducting Sicilian mafia OPERATIONS, under the jurisdiction of American Cosa Nostra ORGANIZATIONS. It's a bit like asking, if I'm running Chevy supply lines into the US, in Toyotas market, do I answer to Toyota? Or does Chevy send a " US" rep or manager or whatever to oversee the operations? That was really the crux of it, its baffling to me how it offended people ...... Frank Coppola was actually the one I wanted to start with.....
That's what I was trying to tell Wiseguy, shes saying basically the same thing as him, it seems he wants to argue with her. And I'm sure she ain't got time for that bullshit. Shes no forum troll, like, bruh, lol. (The funny part is I'm pretty sure she doesnt give a fuck really about Buffalo, lol. ) And I see now that's kind of a thing, Sergi, Lamothe, Scott... I dont get it.... yall hate all the journalist, lol ...
The hell are you talking about?
First, we don't necessarily know what law enforcement told her. The "U.S. - Buffalo doesn't exist, Canada - Buffalo does exist, she split the two" is your theory.
Second, I've probably appealed to journalists as much or more than anyone else on the forums. Usually countering the "I live here so I know" crowd. As a whole, I liked Sergi's Jane's Review report.
Third, the only people I'm arguing with are those gullible enough to think the Buffalo mob is still functioning in 2021.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:43 amThe thing is..... I think she was taken a little out of context, that's why I tried to explain that what she said has nothing to do with Double Affiliation or switching organizations. I think shes just repeating what Law Enforcement told her, in a very collegiate type way. Wordy, I guess would be a better description.
Double Affiliation was a theory trying to understand the dynamics of Mafiosi strategically placed in NY, conducting Sicilian mafia OPERATIONS, under the jurisdiction of American Cosa Nostra ORGANIZATIONS. It's a bit like asking, if I'm running Chevy supply lines into the US, in Toyotas market, do I answer to Toyota? Or does Chevy send a " US" rep or manager or whatever to oversee the operations? That was really the crux of it, its baffling to me how it offended people ...... Frank Coppola was actually the one I wanted to start with.....
That's what I was trying to tell Wiseguy, shes saying basically the same thing as him, it seems he wants to argue with her. And I'm sure she ain't got time for that bullshit. Shes no forum troll, like, bruh, lol. (The funny part is I'm pretty sure she doesnt give a fuck really about Buffalo, lol. ) And I see now that's kind of a thing, Sergi, Lamothe, Scott... I dont get it.... yall hate all the journalist, lol ...
The hell are you talking about?
First, we don't necessarily know what law enforcement told her. The "U.S. - Buffalo doesn't exist, Canada - Buffalo does exist, she split the two" is your theory.
Second, I've probably appealed to journalists as much or more than anyone else on the forums. Usually countering the "I live here so I know" crowd. As a whole, I liked Sergi's Jane's Review report.
Third, the only people I'm arguing with are those gullible enough to think the Buffalo mob is still functioning in 2021.
Lmao..... If remember correctly, that report she put out was WAY before it hit the papers and everything came out about the wire and Buffalo. If not LE, where do YOU think she got it. What's YOUR theory on where she got all that? I guess you think she pulled it out her ass, lol
Fair enough on your points far as people believing there is a family. I believe up until 2014 nothing was happening, and then some decision is made to try and rebuild the thing. This isnt an internet fantasy, it's what apparently happened. So my burning question remains why, also why the Bonnano family apparently believes or acknowledged it, why they even NEED IT, but you think its, a lie? A Violi exaggeration? I guess, I mean.....if thats what you think... its possible....
See if they were older members, that's one thing. They seem to have just up and made these guys, were going to make CeCe Luppino too. He was even killed, and he wasn't involved criminally. Someone was taking that family pretty seriously. Why? Now?
To my eyes, it's the foundation being set for a new regime. Or do you think they were adding on to Montreal? Do you think they were positioning Zummo to be..... like..... the new Sciascia?
And as far as what I'm talking about, specifically "Crime family" and also the phrase, "formerly affiliated with LCN".
As far as crime family, we got a set of brothers and uncles, with ties to both LCN and Ndrangheta. Dont forget the Luppinos married into the Commisos too.
They are big narcotics guys. Family commiting crimes, Crime Family, easy. If the Musitanos can be categorized as such, what is the big deal about the Violis?
Call em a cell, crew whatever you like, it's a family running a continuing criminal enterprise, I'm not about to split hairs over it.
Now, formerly affiliated with LCN. That is VERY specific language. If she thought them Ndrangheta like I I initially did, she could have just said it. qI just think that means no more formal Maggadino family. But the Violis are still very active. Simple, to my eyes.
( Like it's coming back to me. She did a video lecture, and one of the topics was Double affiliation. But it had nothing to do with the Violis, I think. It was the Rizzutos, the CnCs, and like Carmelo Bruzzesse, if I remember right. )
I thought the hybridization thing WAS the social interactions, not the organizational makeup. That would mean Morena is a Bonnano, then meets the Violis, so now hes Buffalo? Then meets Semplice then hes Gambino? I dont think that's what she meant....she meant they all do business together, if theres a social tie.
Is this really that different from what you think?
I asked her if the FBI labeling them as defunct influened her labeling this current group a former affiliation of LCN and she said no. She believes Buffalo/Todaro is a loose "hybrid" organization of Mafia/'Ndrangheta on account of their dealing with the Canadian Ndrangheta groups as well as their making Calabrese Luppinos/Violis. This is her thesis. She also went on to state that she didn't look into Buffalo, that is not her area, her area is the 'Ndrangheta.
Wiseguy wrote:Maybe you need to take a few days and read through this thread again. We've explained over and over and over again exactly why this doesn't pass the smell test and we don't believe the hype.
If he does he'll witness the knockout you guys got by me, Sonnyblackstein, B., CC and others. You're fighting a lost cause my friend.
I spoke to your wife yesterday and she told me you're not the same man you were 10 pages ago. [emoji6]
