General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

A good book was written about this. It’s called false arrest. It talks about the royal family and the outfit. Cruz is a central character. We all know what happened to Cruz.

Thank you also for the additional info bud. Im first time hearing regarding this specific connection, although it seems that the Outfit and the African-American organizations worked together even after the 1970's

The Royal Family was basically a black gang that was created in prison and then transferred to the street. It’s the same as the Brothers of Struggle. Both those gangs did errands for the Outfit. BOS is suspected in the murder of Milwaukee Associate Max Addonis is late 80s. Both these gangs are largely defunct now from my understanding. BOS might still be active in Milwaukee.

Royal Family and the original BOS were similar in that they both also drew on members from rival organizations like BGDs and VLs. They weren't street gangs, but prison alliances and nascent organized crime groups composed of high ranking members of street gangs. Royal Family, as it moved from the prison system to the streets, evolved into what became called the New Breeds, who are still very much active. The BOS that was formed in the 70s in the prison system was like an elite panel of black gangsters in Statesville under Larry Hoover's control, per my understanding. Hoover wound up extrapolating the "Brothers of the Struggle" concept more broadly to all members of GDN thereafter. So, in that sense, BOS as a name lives on, as synonymous with the GDN membership, though I think that original BOS hit squad organization implicated in Addonis's murder went defunct in the 80s.

[Patrickgold]

A good book was written about this. It’s called false arrest. It talks about the royal family and the outfit. Cruz is a central character. We all know what happened to Cruz.

Thank you also for the additional info bud. Im first time hearing regarding this specific connection, although it seems that the Outfit and the African-American organizations worked together even after the 1970's

The Royal Family was basically a black gang that was created in prison and then transferred to the street. It’s the same as the Brothers of Struggle. Both those gangs did errands for the Outfit. BOS is suspected in the murder of Milwaukee Associate Max Addonis is late 80s. Both these gangs are largely defunct now from my understanding. BOS might still be active in Milwaukee.

Royal Family and the original BOS were similar in that they both also drew on members from rival organizations like BGDs and VLs. They weren't street gangs, but prison alliances and nascent organized crime groups composed of high ranking members of street gangs. Royal Family, as it moved from the prison system to the streets, evolved into what became called the New Breeds, who are still very much active. The BOS that was formed in the 70s in the prison system was like an elite panel of black gangsters in Statesville under Larry Hoover's control, per my understanding. Hoover wound up extrapolating the "Brothers of the Struggle" concept more broadly to all members of GDN thereafter. So, in that sense, BOS as a name lives on, as synonymous with the GDN membership, though I think that original BOS hit squad organization implicated in Addonis's murder went defunct in the 80s.

Weird how prison gangs in Illinois never rose to the extent of prison gangs did in California. I’m sure folks and peoples had a hand in that. Not sure of Latino prison gangs in Illinois but the whites had a gang called the Northsiders that recruited whites from all gangs. They are pretty much defunct from my understanding

[PolackTony]

A good book was written about this. It’s called false arrest. It talks about the royal family and the outfit. Cruz is a central character. We all know what happened to Cruz.

Thank you also for the additional info bud. Im first time hearing regarding this specific connection, although it seems that the Outfit and the African-American organizations worked together even after the 1970's

The Royal Family was basically a black gang that was created in prison and then transferred to the street. It’s the same as the Brothers of Struggle. Both those gangs did errands for the Outfit. BOS is suspected in the murder of Milwaukee Associate Max Addonis is late 80s. Both these gangs are largely defunct now from my understanding. BOS might still be active in Milwaukee.

Royal Family and the original BOS were similar in that they both also drew on members from rival organizations like BGDs and VLs. They weren't street gangs, but prison alliances and nascent organized crime groups composed of high ranking members of street gangs. Royal Family, as it moved from the prison system to the streets, evolved into what became called the New Breeds, who are still very much active. The BOS that was formed in the 70s in the prison system was like an elite panel of black gangsters in Statesville under Larry Hoover's control, per my understanding. Hoover wound up extrapolating the "Brothers of the Struggle" concept more broadly to all members of GDN thereafter. So, in that sense, BOS as a name lives on, as synonymous with the GDN membership, though I think that original BOS hit squad organization implicated in Addonis's murder went defunct in the 80s.

Weird how prison gangs in Illinois never rose to the extent of prison gangs did in California. I’m sure folks and peoples had a hand in that. Not sure of Latino prison gangs in Illinois but the whites had a gang called the Northsiders that recruited whites from all gangs. They are pretty much defunct from my understanding

The Latin Folks since the late 70s have had their own "board of directors" -- La Tabla -- parallel to the Board run by Hoover. Latin Folks of course including historically white gangs like the C-Notes, Royals, Insane Popes. The LKs play a similar role for the Latin Peoples organizations in the prison system.

One major difference between Illinois and prison gangs in states like CA is that the major organizing principle in IL is not race/ethnicity. Whether one is Folks or People is what really matters. Hoover was smart at forging alliances and was very active in persuading the Royals and the various Latin Folks to join Folks. The scaling up of Chicago gang structures and hierarchies from the 1960s through the 1980s was a back and forth process between the carceral system and the streets. I don't know nearly enough about CA gangs to make a really analytic comparison, but my impression is that there was a very different history that led to the formation of largely prison specific organizations, while in Chicago the same organizations spanned the streets and prisons.

The same relative de-emphasis of race largely prevails on the streets where ostensibly black or Hispanic organizations have plenty of members from every conceivable ethnic background. Since the 90s the Folks and Peoples alliances on the streets have been greatly fragmented and weakened by myriad internecine battles. The actual gangs themselves of course almost all long predate the formation of the Folks/People thing, and had their own issues around competition over territory and personal beefs. From what I understand, however, even today if one is, say, an MLD and thus engaged in ongoing decades-long wars with the Cobras or Imperial Gangsters, once you hit Cook County you're all Folks and intra-alliance fighting is not permitted.

[Coloboy]

This board/thread has been slow so just wanted to get everyone’s opinion here. And yes, I’m aware these will certainly be opinions and not fact.

I’m someone who is more interested in today’s outfit than the far past, but I do really admire the research and knowledge many of you have done on the outfits peak years. It’s commendable to piece together the big picture of how it all worked.

But today....what do you think is left?

2–3 semi-independent crews with no central admin?

A secretive, small, and surprisingly effective organization that still has central leadership?

Or virtually nothing but former outfit guys who now dabble in rackets individually and make money when they can with virtually no “outfit” left?

[Antiliar]

This board/thread has been slow so just wanted to get everyone’s opinion here. And yes, I’m aware these will certainly be opinions and not fact.

I’m someone who is more interested in today’s outfit than the far past, but I do really admire the research and knowledge many of you have done on the outfits peak years. It’s commendable to piece together the big picture of how it all worked.

But today....what do you think is left?

2–3 semi-independent crews with no central admin?

A secretive, small, and surprisingly effective organization that still has central leadership?

Or virtually nothing but former outfit guys who now dabble in rackets individually and make money when they can with virtually no “outfit” left?

My opinion is a total guess, so I could be on the money or far off the mark. It *possibly* exists as two crews, the old Cicero crew (Buccieri/Torello/Ferriola/Infelise/Monteleone/Sarno) and Grand Avenue (Battaglia/Lombardo/Vena). Maybe there's a boss over the two crews, or maybe they both report to Vena. Either that or there's no Outfit left.

[Snakes]

Inendino and Vena seem to be the most "street" guys left and they come from those two crews so it wouldn't surprise me. I still think some gambling and what not goes on elsewhere but it isn't nearly the amount that went on 15-20 years ago.

[PolackTony]

This board/thread has been slow so just wanted to get everyone’s opinion here. And yes, I’m aware these will certainly be opinions and not fact.

I’m someone who is more interested in today’s outfit than the far past, but I do really admire the research and knowledge many of you have done on the outfits peak years. It’s commendable to piece together the big picture of how it all worked.

But today....what do you think is left?

2–3 semi-independent crews with no central admin?

A secretive, small, and surprisingly effective organization that still has central leadership?

Or virtually nothing but former outfit guys who now dabble in rackets individually and make money when they can with virtually no “outfit” left?

My opinion is a total guess, so I could be on the money or far off the mark. It *possibly* exists as two crews, the old Cicero crew (Buccieri/Torello/Ferriola/Infelise/Monteleone/Sarno) and Grand Avenue (Battaglia/Lombardo/Vena). Maybe there's a boss over the two crews, or maybe they both report to Vena. Either that or there's no Outfit left.

+1

Question still remains for me regarding what's left of Chinatown and Elmwood. I suspect there's still some action left there and they're answering to Inendino and Vena, respectively. It's certainly possible these are still at least formally recognized crews, even if tiny, but what's left could've instead just been folded into the main two crews. We're really in the dark here, of course.

My personal opinion is that a "secretive, small" organization still persists, though I have no idea how "effective" they might be. Time will tell. Having said that, if one of the other possibilities turns out to be true, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

[cavita]

Chicago Magazine did an in depth article in 2000 talking about how the Outfit was purposely thinning its ranks and making itself smaller to avoid widespread prosecution. I think they've continued to do it to this day. Just because a city has three million people doesn't mean they have to have hundreds of guys on the streets.

[SolarSolano]

There is still a real organization and some real capable guys and probably a lot we don't know. But its nowhere near what it was and I think at this point, the Outfit honestly only goes after its own unless there are some exceptional circumstances. Associates are rarely getting killed like they were for crossing them - the last few guys who have been killed are all made guys. From my view, that means the Outfit still has a real structure and is making real money - enough to kill guys for and take those risks. I'd add, all these recent hits since 99 are essentially perfect as in no one was caught and in Zizzo's case, a total disappearance.

[Coloboy]

Since I posed the question I’ll offer my opinion as well...

No idea on crew structure. To guess would be futile. However, I believe there is still a central chain of command and all “street” rackets are run by associates/underlings to protect the financiers/remaining made guys.

I think last years multiple gambling busts were all outfit backed operations personally, and occurred because Illinois legalized sports gambling and they needed to go after some of the bigger illegal books which were cutting into their profits. I don’t think they were chasing the outfit itself, but the fact that all the bigger rings they busted had outfit associates involved tells me the organization is still making some cash.

[PolackTony]

Chicago Magazine did an in depth article in 2000 talking about how the Outfit was purposely thinning its ranks and making itself smaller to avoid widespread prosecution. I think they've continued to do it to this day. Just because a city has three million people doesn't mean they have to have hundreds of guys on the streets.

Yes, and the Outfit never needed to make every Sal, Vito, and Rocky even back in the day. There was that 60s wiretap of Tommy Eboli and Miranda, where they stated that Chicago had only like 50 made guys. Even if that was a bit of a lowball, still, Chicago at their height was able to orchestrate a vast criminal empire with only a relative handful of inducted LCN members. It was a set of layers or concentric circles radiating out from the inner circle of power, with a mafia borgata at the center of a complex and far-reaching crime syndicate. Today, with the loss of the unions, the police, the court system, Vegas, the old 1st ward machine, etc., there is no longer any "syndicate" to speak of. What's likely left is a small, greatly truncated network of business partners, associates, workers, a few crooked cops, and some cronied-up officials in the suburbs, surrounding a tight-knit LCN family where only a bare minimum of guys need to actually be made. Basically the admin, capos, a couple of top lieutenants, and a few senior retired/semi-retired guys.

There is still a real organization and some real capable guys and probably a lot we don't know. But its nowhere near what it was and I think at this point, the Outfit honestly only goes after its own unless there are some exceptional circumstances. Associates are rarely getting killed like they were for crossing them - the last few guys who have been killed are all made guys. From my view, that means the Outfit still has a real structure and is making real money - enough to kill guys for and take those risks. I'd add, all these recent hits since 99 are essentially perfect as in no one was caught and in Zizzo's case, a total disappearance.

Agreed, and I'd add that if even a couple of the potential "hits" outlined in another thread are Outfit connected, it further shows that they both still have the teeth to be dangerous and something to protect. I personally would suspect that if they have killed anyone in recent years, it would be guys who were potentially gonna flip. And if/when they have hit someone, it was lights out, no witnesses, etc. Otherwise, I suspect they probably throw a beating on a guy every now and then (a la the Carparelli and Brown thing) for not paying, but otherwise mainly just cut the guy off. Whatever they have left on the streets in gambling and juice is going to be heavily dependent on them maintaining a trusted network of clients and workers, so they can cut a guy off or shelve him instead of resorting to force. If any guys have been whacked, I again strongly suspect it would be guys who actually could spill the beans in a way that could cause enough damage to warrant force.

However, I believe there is still a central chain of command and all “street” rackets are run by associates/underlings to protect the financiers/remaining made guys.

I think last years multiple gambling busts were all outfit backed operations personally, and occurred because Illinois legalized sports gambling and they needed to go after some of the bigger illegal books which were cutting into their profits. I don’t think they were chasing the outfit itself, but the fact that all the bigger rings they busted had outfit associates involved tells me the organization is still making some cash.

In agreement, this is my opinion as well. I suspect that the remaining made members are well-insulated from the workers actually in charge of running the remaining street rackets. These workers probably answer to mid-level associates who in turn answer to a made guy. Even if the guys running these gambling opps flipped, they wouldn't be able to damage what's left of the core organization.

A big question for me is whatever came of Hollingshead's info before he died. I for one suspect that there was quite a bit happening around Grand Ave that we don't know about. Another big gap in understanding is the current state of what had been an apparently long-standing and significant set of ties to mafia organizations in Italy. All of that might be dead and gone today, but it very well might not, and Pete Labalestra is still out there in the Western burbs. I personally think that angle is a big deal in the relatively recent (i.e., last several decades) history of the Outfit that remains very murky and poorly understood.

[Villain]

"We'll get there pops. We'll get there"....but in the Outfits case it was the opposite, meaning most of the dads told this to their sons lol

[PolackTony]

"We'll get there pops. We'll get there"....but in the Outfits case it was the opposite, meaning most of the dads told this to their sons lol

Living the Corleone dream lol.

[Villain]

"We'll get there pops. We'll get there"....but in the Outfits case it was the opposite, meaning most of the dads told this to their sons lol

Living the Corleone dream lol.

To the fullest Lol

[Antiliar]

There is still a real organization and some real capable guys and probably a lot we don't know. But its nowhere near what it was and I think at this point, the Outfit honestly only goes after its own unless there are some exceptional circumstances. Associates are rarely getting killed like they were for crossing them - the last few guys who have been killed are all made guys. From my view, that means the Outfit still has a real structure and is making real money - enough to kill guys for and take those risks. I'd add, all these recent hits since 99 are essentially perfect as in no one was caught and in Zizzo's case, a total disappearance.

We can agree that there's a lot we don't know. The 1999 disappearance of Zizzo and the 2001 slaying of Chiaramonte are a long time ago. Everything changed with Family Secrets, followed by the convictions of Mike Sarno in 2012 and Anthony Calabrese in 2008. Paul Carparelli, who got 3 1/2 years in 2016, wasn't even a made guy. Family Secrets and the Sarno conviction changed everything. Solly D, who some thought was the new boss, has a Facebook account where the advertises his business (which he still runs at 80 years old), and talks about friends and family out in the open, not to mention occasionally making posts about Al Capone. Even mob lawyer Joe Lopez is a member of several Chicago crime Facebook groups. To me, this at least suggests that there isn't much Outfit left, if there is any at all.