General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[funkster]

Agree to disagree. Sloppiness is one thing, but for an incredibly well respected AUSA on a massive OC case to reveal a CI at the level of a Difronzo to a sleazy (no offense to him, but lets be honest) CW and risk that getting leaked somehow just defies logic.

[funkster]

Red was (and is) a little weird. He once directly asked if I was a fed which was both flattering and ridiculous at the same time considering there was nothing on my profile that would identify me as such.

Lol i mean, this kind of says it right there.

[Patrickgold]

Also, the investigation in the 90s seemed like more of a Chicago PD investigation with some assistance from the FBI than a full blown RICO case.

Additionally, DiFronzo was a prospective defendant in Family Secrets pretty late and he wasn't the only one that wasn't brought to trial. Joey Hansen -- whom Antilliar, myself, and others believe to still be alive -- was also not brought to trial. Lou Marino was also placed at the Spilotro murder scene but left off the indictment. Now, this may be presumably because he was already serving a long sentence and would be (and was) an old man when released (if he even survived his sentence) so they assumed he wasn't worth it but who knows, the feds are not known for being lenient in LCN cases.

Why do you think Joey Hansen is still alive? He died of cancer in the early 2000s. I believe it even says in the family secrets indictment that he’s deceased

[Snakes]

Also, the investigation in the 90s seemed like more of a Chicago PD investigation with some assistance from the FBI than a full blown RICO case.

Additionally, DiFronzo was a prospective defendant in Family Secrets pretty late and he wasn't the only one that wasn't brought to trial. Joey Hansen -- whom Antilliar, myself, and others believe to still be alive -- was also not brought to trial. Lou Marino was also placed at the Spilotro murder scene but left off the indictment. Now, this may be presumably because he was already serving a long sentence and would be (and was) an old man when released (if he even survived his sentence) so they assumed he wasn't worth it but who knows, the feds are not known for being lenient in LCN cases.

Why do you think Joey Hansen is still alive? He died of cancer in the early 2000s. I believe it even says in the family secrets indictment that he’s deceased

There was a big group effort a few months ago to find evidence if his death. We found nothing. No obituary. No SSDI. Nothing. We actually found more indication that he was alive instead of dead. It definitely didn't say anything in the indictment about it.

[Patrickgold]

https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/il ... 425_01.pdf

This says deceased Outfit associate Joey Hansen

[Snakes]

https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/il ... 425_01.pdf

This says deceased Outfit associate Joey Hansen

I've seen that too, but there are indications that he was or is actually alive. I don't think it really matters in the big picture, though.

[Patrickgold]

That is a federal document so I would take it as truth. There was an article that talked about him getting an dna swab before he died. It might have been a Kass article. I’ll try to find it. But I’m 99% sure he’s dead. The problem is Joseph Hansen is a very common name.

[Patrickgold]

Did Cullota ever talk about him in in YouTube thing before he died?

[Snakes]

There was residence data (from taxes, I assume) indicating that Hansen resided in Huntington Beach, CA through at least last year. We know that the Outfit's Joey Hansen lived in Huntington Beach, CA and his middle name and birthdate also match the residence data available in this case. This was also "Sr" and not "Jr," as he has a son with that namesake. The information could be wrong and he could be dead, but I just found it puzzling that there is no public record of his death, particularly when other public records exist under the same name.

[Antiliar]

https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/il ... 425_01.pdf

This says deceased Outfit associate Joey Hansen

This is current public information from Ancestry.com:

Name: Joseph Charles Hansen Sr
Birth Date: Sep 1937
Residence Date: 1994-2020
Address: 17030 Bluewater Ln Apt 99
Residence: Huntington Beach, California, USA
Postal Code: 92649
Second Residence Date: 1994-2020
Second Address: 17030 Bluewater Ln Unit 99
Second Residence: Huntington Beach
Second Postal Code: 92649
Third Residence Date: 1992-1996
Third Address: 2554 Lincoln Blvd Apt 289
Third Residence: Venice, California, USA
Third Postal Code: 90291
Fourth Residence Date: 1968-1994
Fourth Address: 4246 Via Marina
Fourth Residence: Marina Del Rey, California, USA
Fourth Postal Code: 90292

Name: Joseph Charles Hansen Sr [Joseph Hansen Sr]
Birth Date: Sep 1937
Residence Date: 1994
Phone Number: 592-4962
Address: 17030 Bluewater Ln # 99
Residence: Huntington Beach, CA
Postal Code: 92649-2903
Second Phone Number: 592-4962
Second Address: 4834 Narrot St
Second Residence:
Second Postal Code: 90503-1438
Third Phone Number: 592-4962
Third Address: 4246 Via Marina
Third Residence: Venice, CA
Third Postal Code: 90292-5298
Fourth Residence Date: 1993
Fourth Phone Number: 592-4962
Fourth Address: 2554 Lincoln Blvd # 289
Fourth Residence: Venice, CA
Fourth Postal Code: 90291-5082

Maybe he did die, but these are the records that come up and there's nothing outside of the Justice Dept statement to confirm his death (at least from what I've seen). There was an interesting coincidence involving two people with the surname Neuman also: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6017&hilit=hansen&start=15

This also suggests he's still alive: https://www.checkthem.com/name/joseph-hansen/
Of course the information could be outdated, which is why I wrote "suggests."

So does this: https://www.beenverified.com/people/joseph-hansen/ca/

This site has him as a past resident: https://www.spokeo.com/CA/Huntington-Be ... uewater-Ln

[Coloboy]

The way I look at it logically is....

let’s say Difronzo was an informant working with the feds. This would be the biggest and most important CI they would have ever possessed. The boss or former boss of the Chicago outfit would know more than they could ever want or hope for.

Then I’m supposed to believe they just casually showed this info to Red Wemette and risked blowing the highest ranking CI in the history of organized crime in Chicago? Just seems unlikely .

And as afar as Fosco goes, that guy has had it out for Difronzo since the early ANP days. Read the through the lines on all those posts back in the day and you can grasp the picture. Fosco looked up to Difronzo as a hero, the big boss of EP. When Fratto and others extorted Fosco, and Difronzo did nothing to protect him, fosco felt betrayed and never let it go. It’s all petty revenge IMO

[funkster]

https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/il ... 425_01.pdf

This says deceased Outfit associate Joey Hansen

This is current public information from Ancestry.com:

Name: Joseph Charles Hansen Sr
Birth Date: Sep 1937
Residence Date: 1994-2020
Address: 17030 Bluewater Ln Apt 99
Residence: Huntington Beach, California, USA
Postal Code: 92649
Second Residence Date: 1994-2020
Second Address: 17030 Bluewater Ln Unit 99
Second Residence: Huntington Beach
Second Postal Code: 92649
Third Residence Date: 1992-1996
Third Address: 2554 Lincoln Blvd Apt 289
Third Residence: Venice, California, USA
Third Postal Code: 90291
Fourth Residence Date: 1968-1994
Fourth Address: 4246 Via Marina
Fourth Residence: Marina Del Rey, California, USA
Fourth Postal Code: 90292

Name: Joseph Charles Hansen Sr [Joseph Hansen Sr]
Birth Date: Sep 1937
Residence Date: 1994
Phone Number: 592-4962
Address: 17030 Bluewater Ln # 99
Residence: Huntington Beach, CA
Postal Code: 92649-2903
Second Phone Number: 592-4962
Second Address: 4834 Narrot St
Second Residence:
Second Postal Code: 90503-1438
Third Phone Number: 592-4962
Third Address: 4246 Via Marina
Third Residence: Venice, CA
Third Postal Code: 90292-5298
Fourth Residence Date: 1993
Fourth Phone Number: 592-4962
Fourth Address: 2554 Lincoln Blvd # 289
Fourth Residence: Venice, CA
Fourth Postal Code: 90291-5082

Maybe he did die, but these are the records that come up and there's nothing outside of the Justice Dept statement to confirm his death (at least from what I've seen). There was an interesting coincidence involving two people with the surname Neuman also: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6017&hilit=hansen&start=15

This also suggests he's still alive: https://www.checkthem.com/name/joseph-hansen/
Of course the information could be outdated, which is why I wrote "suggests."

So does this: https://www.beenverified.com/people/joseph-hansen/ca/

This site has him as a past resident: https://www.spokeo.com/CA/Huntington-Be ... uewater-Ln

Wait, Ancestry has all that info for public viewing? Yikes, that's kind of terrifying.

[PolackTony]

I'm personally agnostic on the question of DiFronzo cooperating. It's certainly possible and plenty of strange things have happened in the history of Federal LE and LCN. While I'm sympathetic to those arguing that it would be implausible for Mars to have left the files on DiFronzo out in front of Red, it certainly could happen, especially given that (as Antiliar already noted) Mars was ill at the time. It's also possible that as Mars's health was failing, he may have wanted someone that he trusted to know that DiFronzo was cooperating, as Mars would've been aware that DiFronzo's (hypothetical) status as a CI would likely never be made public via official channels.

I've also spoken with Red at length a number of times, and while he can be odd in his own entertaining way, I don't get the impression that he simply makes things up. He seems to always be very clear and direct when he simply doesn't know something and I've asked him about all sorts of things that he could've bullshitted about but didn't. While Fosco, as others have already pointed out, is far from a disinterested party on the DiFronzo question, the fact that both him and Red have made this claim does move the needle for me.

Unless and until further evidence comes out to shed light on it (which realistically may never happen), I'm inclined to take it as both possible and plausible, but unconfirmed.

[Patrickgold]

Supposedly this is his obit

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/ ... ?pid=30089

[Snakes]

Supposedly this is his obit

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/ ... ?pid=30089

If that is true, then there are court documents that post-date that obit. They make it seem like Hansen was still alive at the time. I don't really have a stake in whether he is alive or dead, I only want to know for sure one way or the other.