Los Angeles odds & ends

[Jim505]

Sammy called Jimmy skinny, which I thought was strange. Jimmy seemed to be a normal sized man, not overweight or skinny.

[Nick Prango]

Yeah, this story threw me for a loop. Gravano was made in 1976, and that was the same year Fratianno came to New York and met with Greg DePalma. The famous photo was taken on April 11, 1976. So Gravano may have only been made for a few months at that time, so why would Fratianno care about meeting him? (I don't know the exact dates on top of my head.) Plus from Gravano's story he seemed to imply that Paul Castellano was the boss, but Carlo Gambino was the boss until his death in October. From Sammy's book it's not clear if he was made in 1975 or 1976. Paul led the ceremony, but Paul was also Carlo's acting boss because of his health issues.

As for thinking that California was open territory, I can see him thinking that when he was new.

Gravano's story seems rather dubious and reads like some John Alite "tale" .

Isn't also that Cosa Nostra life is the most important when you take the oath? So why would Sammy chose his wife and dinner plans rather than to take a formal intro to Jimmy the Weasel? I smell bullshit on that story.

Sammy the king rat is full of shit and some of his stories are very boring. Ever wonder why Sammy never was in prison prior to the Gotti shit? Ain't no way you can go as hard as that and avoid prison.

[Amershire_Ed]

Yeah, this story threw me for a loop. Gravano was made in 1976, and that was the same year Fratianno came to New York and met with Greg DePalma. The famous photo was taken on April 11, 1976. So Gravano may have only been made for a few months at that time, so why would Fratianno care about meeting him? (I don't know the exact dates on top of my head.) Plus from Gravano's story he seemed to imply that Paul Castellano was the boss, but Carlo Gambino was the boss until his death in October. From Sammy's book it's not clear if he was made in 1975 or 1976. Paul led the ceremony, but Paul was also Carlo's acting boss because of his health issues.

As for thinking that California was open territory, I can see him thinking that when he was new.

Gravano's story seems rather dubious and reads like some John Alite "tale" .

Isn't also that Cosa Nostra life is the most important when you take the oath? So why would Sammy chose his wife and dinner plans rather than to take a formal intro to Jimmy the Weasel? I smell bullshit on that story.

Sammy the king rat is full of shit and some of his stories are very boring. Ever wonder why Sammy never was in prison prior to the Gotti shit? Ain't no way you can go as hard as that and avoid prison.

I don’t doubt that Gravano likes to put a little extra mustard on his hot dog when it comes to Cosa Nostra stories. But I also know that the Feds had wired up Sammy all over the place. They had hundreds and hundreds of hours of him talking on wires at his different businesses and hangouts. They had him on tape like 10x more than they had Gotti on tape. But of all the hours of audio they had on Gravano, he never once implicated himself *or* anyone else in any criminal activity. He might be a rat and a scumbag but he appears to have been someone that was quite careful on the street.

[Eld]

Have to make a correction: The source that I used that said the photo was taken on April 11, 1976, was wrong. I went through some old newspapers and they reported that Sinatra performed at the Westchester Premier Theatre in Tarrytown from September 23 to October 2, 1976. The book The Last Mafioso says that Fratianno met with Gambino, DePalma, Louie Dome, and the rest two weeks before Carlo Gambino died. He had performed there earlier in the year on April 1-11. The New York Daily News confirmed that Sinatra met backstage with Fratianno and Gambino in September. The theater went bankrupt in December 1976 after having all of its profits skimmed. Anyways, Sammy Gravano wasn't made until after October 15, when Gambino died. Gravano also said that at his ceremony Paul Castellano was boss, Dellacroce was the underboss, and Joe N. Gallo was the consigliere. When Fratianno was in New York and had a sit down with the Gambino family, Paul was the acting boss, Jimmy Brown Failla was the acting underboss, and Gallo was the consigliere. When Gambino died, Dellacroce was serving a sentence at Riker's Island. So even with the corrected date, Sammy Gravano's story didn't happen.

According to his book Fratianno was in NY for a third Sinatra concert in the spring of 1977 (page 379).

Also, it seems the theather continued to operate into 1977.

TARRYTOWN, N. Y., Dec. 24 — The Westchester Premiere Theater is filing for reorganization with the Federal Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan. The $6 million theater, a showcase for popular entertainers that attracted such stars as Frank Sinatra and Liza Minnelli, will continue to operate with a full season of spring bookings beginning March 1.

https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/25/arch ... dings.html


During a taped phone call on 7/8/77 DePalma complains that (page 391).

This guy [Jimmy] ain't what he's going around saying he is, you know

So the meeting Gravano talks about was probably in 1977 not 1976.

[NothingNew44]

So theoretically it could be based in truth.

[Antiliar]

Have to make a correction: The source that I used that said the photo was taken on April 11, 1976, was wrong. I went through some old newspapers and they reported that Sinatra performed at the Westchester Premier Theatre in Tarrytown from September 23 to October 2, 1976. The book The Last Mafioso says that Fratianno met with Gambino, DePalma, Louie Dome, and the rest two weeks before Carlo Gambino died. He had performed there earlier in the year on April 1-11. The New York Daily News confirmed that Sinatra met backstage with Fratianno and Gambino in September. The theater went bankrupt in December 1976 after having all of its profits skimmed. Anyways, Sammy Gravano wasn't made until after October 15, when Gambino died. Gravano also said that at his ceremony Paul Castellano was boss, Dellacroce was the underboss, and Joe N. Gallo was the consigliere. When Fratianno was in New York and had a sit down with the Gambino family, Paul was the acting boss, Jimmy Brown Failla was the acting underboss, and Gallo was the consigliere. When Gambino died, Dellacroce was serving a sentence at Riker's Island. So even with the corrected date, Sammy Gravano's story didn't happen.

According to his book Fratianno was in NY for a third Sinatra concert in the spring of 1977 (page 379).

Also, it seems the theather continued to operate into 1977.

TARRYTOWN, N. Y., Dec. 24 — The Westchester Premiere Theater is filing for reorganization with the Federal Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan. The $6 million theater, a showcase for popular entertainers that attracted such stars as Frank Sinatra and Liza Minnelli, will continue to operate with a full season of spring bookings beginning March 1.

https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/25/arch ... dings.html


During a taped phone call on 7/8/77 DePalma complains that (page 391).

This guy [Jimmy] ain't what he's going around saying he is, you know

So the meeting Gravano talks about was probably in 1977 not 1976.

It looks like I stand partially corrected. I looked it up and Sinatra did perform a show on May 17, 1977, at the Westchester Premier Theatre with Dean Martin. But it still doesn't fit that Fratianno would have broken protocol with introductions nor why he would have cared about a newly made soldier named Sammy Gravano. As for the DePalma quote, it could have been referring to Fratianno calling himself the acting boss of Los Angeles and not the acting underboss, which was what he was. That is very different from him calling himself the "boss of California." So Gravano's version is still very suspect.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Makes no sense that a newly buttoned soldier under Toddo Aurello would be at some theater rubbing elbows with Frank Sinatra, Carlo Gambino, and an LA boss.

[NothingNew44]

Makes no sense that a newly buttoned soldier under Toddo Aurello would be at some theater rubbing elbows with Frank Sinatra, Carlo Gambino, and an LA boss.

If we are to consider believing Gravano’s story it would have to be with the assumption it took place in 77. Not the night of the infamous photo with Gambino in 76.

[Rat]

I noticed Franzese also somewhat disregarded the LA Family saying they were basically a crew in one of his videos.

[dave]

Have to make a correction: The source that I used that said the photo was taken on April 11, 1976, was wrong. I went through some old newspapers and they reported that Sinatra performed at the Westchester Premier Theatre in Tarrytown from September 23 to October 2, 1976. The book The Last Mafioso says that Fratianno met with Gambino, DePalma, Louie Dome, and the rest two weeks before Carlo Gambino died. He had performed there earlier in the year on April 1-11. The New York Daily News confirmed that Sinatra met backstage with Fratianno and Gambino in September. The theater went bankrupt in December 1976 after having all of its profits skimmed. Anyways, Sammy Gravano wasn't made until after October 15, when Gambino died. Gravano also said that at his ceremony Paul Castellano was boss, Dellacroce was the underboss, and Joe N. Gallo was the consigliere. When Fratianno was in New York and had a sit down with the Gambino family, Paul was the acting boss, Jimmy Brown Failla was the acting underboss, and Gallo was the consigliere. When Gambino died, Dellacroce was serving a sentence at Riker's Island. So even with the corrected date, Sammy Gravano's story didn't happen.

According to his book Fratianno was in NY for a third Sinatra concert in the spring of 1977 (page 379).

Also, it seems the theather continued to operate into 1977.

TARRYTOWN, N. Y., Dec. 24 — The Westchester Premiere Theater is filing for reorganization with the Federal Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan. The $6 million theater, a showcase for popular entertainers that attracted such stars as Frank Sinatra and Liza Minnelli, will continue to operate with a full season of spring bookings beginning March 1.

https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/25/arch ... dings.html


During a taped phone call on 7/8/77 DePalma complains that (page 391).

This guy [Jimmy] ain't what he's going around saying he is, you know

So the meeting Gravano talks about was probably in 1977 not 1976.

Thank you for your thorough research.

[Antiliar]

Makes no sense that a newly buttoned soldier under Toddo Aurello would be at some theater rubbing elbows with Frank Sinatra, Carlo Gambino, and an LA boss.

If we are to consider believing Gravano’s story it would have to be with the assumption it took place in 77. Not the night of the infamous photo with Gambino in 76.

When the infamous photo was taken Gravano wasn't even a soldier, so Grouchy's point is valid. Why would Fratianno break the rules over a newly made soldier whom he probably never heard of before? Yes, Fratianno misrepresented his position, but nowhere are we led to believe that he violated introduction protocol until Gravano tells his story in 2021.

[Costigan]

Makes no sense that a newly buttoned soldier under Toddo Aurello would be at some theater rubbing elbows with Frank Sinatra, Carlo Gambino, and an LA boss.

I'm not saying I believe Gravano, but Greg DePalma was the same thing, a newly buttoned soldier, and he made it into the famous photo and talked to Jimmy on the phone more than once.

[Stroccos]

Makes no sense that a newly buttoned soldier under Toddo Aurello would be at some theater rubbing elbows with Frank Sinatra, Carlo Gambino, and an LA boss.

I'm not saying I believe Gravano, but Greg DePalma was the same thing, a newly buttoned soldier, and he made it into the famous photo and talked to Jimmy on the phone more than once.

Maybe he expected gravano to kiss his ring

[Antiliar]

Makes no sense that a newly buttoned soldier under Toddo Aurello would be at some theater rubbing elbows with Frank Sinatra, Carlo Gambino, and an LA boss.

I'm not saying I believe Gravano, but Greg DePalma was the same thing, a newly buttoned soldier, and he made it into the famous photo and talked to Jimmy on the phone more than once.

DePalma owned the theater. That's the difference.

[Hired_Goonz]

Maybe the timeline works out so Sammy's story is plausible after all. But for me personally, I'm gonna be extremely skeptical when these brand spanking new stories (or new details for old stories) from mob rats surface in the "don't forget to hit the subscribe button" era. If they didn't say it in debriefing to the feds or on the stand under oath it should always be taken with a grain of salt.