Los Angeles odds & ends

[Tonyd621]

another "new story" yeah they knew he was a rat and did nothing

I mean it's possible. If you have a source inside a govt agency; then you whack Fratianno, your source will probably be exposed.
For example, if you believe the Persicos knew Scarpa was an informant that whole time he was killing for them.

[B.]

another "new story" yeah they knew he was a rat and did nothing

Do you think he inserted himself into the Westchester Theater story because it's well-known? That's what I'm wondering.

- I was surprised when he started talking about it. I can believe a Gambino member like Gravano went to the Theater given it was a big deal in the Gambino family at the time, but it's surprising he would be there at the same exact time Fratianno was there and turn down an introduction. I mean Carlo Gambino was photographed with Fratianno, but a new member like Gravano is too high and mighty to meet him?

- We know Fratianno was sloppy and lied to NYC about his rank in LA, but I'm surprised he would go up to a random Brooklyn member and introduce himself without a third party AND tell him his rank. Even if they had been introduced, you can't tell someone your rank without a third party, so that is two rule violations right there. Fratianno was a member for almost 30 years at the time and in his book he talks about LA going through hoops to properly introduce Dominic Longo to Canadian members. Unless he was drunk, this is a ridiculous rule violation if true.

- Gravano never heard of a family in California? I know California was dwindling, but even DiLeonardo knew about the LA family in the 1990s and met Pete Milano. D'Amico and DiLeonardo knew about the LA family but the future underboss didn't? I don't know why Gravano would lie about this, but it's weird he would think Fratianno was with a family that didn't even exist.

[Antiliar]

Yeah, this story threw me for a loop. Gravano was made in 1976, and that was the same year Fratianno came to New York and met with Greg DePalma. The famous photo was taken on April 11, 1976. So Gravano may have only been made for a few months at that time, so why would Fratianno care about meeting him? (I don't know the exact dates on top of my head.) Plus from Gravano's story he seemed to imply that Paul Castellano was the boss, but Carlo Gambino was the boss until his death in October. From Sammy's book it's not clear if he was made in 1975 or 1976. Paul led the ceremony, but Paul was also Carlo's acting boss because of his health issues.

As for thinking that California was open territory, I can see him thinking that when he was new.

[bronx]

B. think this, how come he is not in the photo? where was his skipper? not there? he told paul about the girl friend ,taking care of her, but not push to clip a rat, he also said he stuck up for willie boy, a guy who clipped his best friends has empathy for rats.

[Antiliar]

According to Sammy's testimony he wasn't made until 1976 WHEN PAUL CASTELLANO WAS THE BOSS:

GLEESON: Now, did there come a point when you became a made member of the Gambino Family?

GRAVANO: Yes.

GLEESON: When was that?

GRAVANO: ’76. In ’76.

[. . . .]

GLEESON: At that point, who was the boss of the Gambino Family?

GRAVANO: Paul...

Again, Fratianno was in New York in April 1976. Fratianno was in the photo with Carlo Gambino and Greg De Palma on April 11, 1976. Carlo Gambino was the boss when Fratianno was in New York. Paul Castellano became the boss after Gambino died in October 1976. Conclusion: Sammy Gravano's story about Fratianno didn't happen. Is he intentionally lying or misremembering for mental reasons? That I don't know.

[Nick Prango]

Yeah, this story threw me for a loop. Gravano was made in 1976, and that was the same year Fratianno came to New York and met with Greg DePalma. The famous photo was taken on April 11, 1976. So Gravano may have only been made for a few months at that time, so why would Fratianno care about meeting him? (I don't know the exact dates on top of my head.) Plus from Gravano's story he seemed to imply that Paul Castellano was the boss, but Carlo Gambino was the boss until his death in October. From Sammy's book it's not clear if he was made in 1975 or 1976. Paul led the ceremony, but Paul was also Carlo's acting boss because of his health issues.

As for thinking that California was open territory, I can see him thinking that when he was new.

Gravano's story seems rather dubious and reads like some John Alite "tale" .

[JoeCamel]

Sammys the most Cosa Nostra rat out there. Remember Jimmy Fratianno was the biggest known and damaging rat in terms of mass media and being famous etc. So I’m sure Sammy has always felt a need to “out rat” him and this is his way by inserting himself in a well known mafia story, which like someone said he could be on the periphery of. He needs to embarrass and put down JF out of some need to be the“ best”. I mean Jesus Christ he’s all of a sudden rewriting history saying he knew Alite when he was a kid when even Alite admits they met shortly after prison in late 2017. I can’t take anything new he says seriously. He has that personality that says he will say anything for money and anyone will believe him so he just drolls on. He used to be subdued in the Diane sawyer days, and honestly you can even question all of underboss. It seems like when Gotti took over the family with the blue collar faction and these are the guys everyone focused on media wise you got a group of gorillas who are going to totally muddle history just because of how they subjectively experience reality

Conclusion: I call bullshit. Everyone who was there is dead. No one can say he’s lying.

[Nick Prango]

Sammys the most Cosa Nostra rat out there. Remember Jimmy Fratianno was the biggest known and damaging rat in terms of mass media and being famous etc. So I’m sure Sammy has always felt a need to “out rat” him and this is his way by inserting himself in a well known mafia story, which like someone said he could be on the periphery of. He needs to embarrass and put down JF out of some need to be the“ best”. I mean Jesus Christ he’s all of a sudden rewriting history saying he knew Alite when he was a kid when even Alite admits they met shortly after prison in late 2017. I can’t take anything new he says seriously. He has that personality that says he will say anything for money and anyone will believe him so he just drolls on. He used to be subdued in the Diane sawyer days, and honestly you can even question all of underboss. It seems like when Gotti took over the family with the blue collar faction and these are the guys everyone focused on media wise you got a group of gorillas who are going to totally muddle history just because of how they subjectively experience reality

Conclusion: I call bullshit. Everyone who was there is dead. No one can say he’s lying.

EXACTLY. I couldn't agree more. You are totally right.

[eboli]

All the discrepancies aside, if you take the story at face value, I find it highly unlikely that a guy like Fratianno at that point in his life will give a fuck about some unknown button's unwillingness to meet him. I guess with these stories and the upcoming podcast, Gravano definitely wants to cement himself as King Rat.

[axx]

A reocurring ending in his videos is his boss/capo telling him "you know what Sammy, you did the right thing. Fuck that guy." He has a need to portray himself as never being wrong even when he screws up.

[dave]

According to Sammy's testimony he wasn't made until 1976 WHEN PAUL CASTELLANO WAS THE BOSS:

GLEESON: Now, did there come a point when you became a made member of the Gambino Family?

GRAVANO: Yes.

GLEESON: When was that?

GRAVANO: ’76. In ’76.

[. . . .]

GLEESON: At that point, who was the boss of the Gambino Family?

GRAVANO: Paul...

Again, Fratianno was in New York in April 1976. Fratianno was in the photo with Carlo Gambino and Greg De Palma on April 11, 1976. Carlo Gambino was the boss when Fratianno was in New York. Paul Castellano became the boss after Gambino died in October 1976. Conclusion: Sammy Gravano's story about Fratianno didn't happen. Is he intentionally lying or misremembering for mental reasons? That I don't know.

Was Fratianno at the Westchester Premiere Theatre just that one time?

Franzese also mentioned the LA family in his recent video about the movie Bugsy. Said Dragna was 'boss of the LA crew", and "it really wasn't a family." Interesting to hear NY members' different perceptions of what was going on in Cali.

[Hired_Goonz]

Look, Sammy needs to produce content. He's already told his life story to to the point where he cooperated and he clearly doesn't want to talk about everything that happened after that. So his best bet is to just go online and research the stuff his target audience (guys like us) would find most interesting from the time he was active on the street, and insert himself into it. That's almost certainly what he did here with the Fratianno story.

[B.]

Yeah, this story threw me for a loop. Gravano was made in 1976, and that was the same year Fratianno came to New York and met with Greg DePalma. The famous photo was taken on April 11, 1976. So Gravano may have only been made for a few months at that time, so why would Fratianno care about meeting him? (I don't know the exact dates on top of my head.) Plus from Gravano's story he seemed to imply that Paul Castellano was the boss, but Carlo Gambino was the boss until his death in October. From Sammy's book it's not clear if he was made in 1975 or 1976. Paul led the ceremony, but Paul was also Carlo's acting boss because of his health issues.

As for thinking that California was open territory, I can see him thinking that when he was new.

The books opened in January 1976 and Sammy wasn't made in the first Jan/Feb ceremony of 10 people, so there is a fairly small window of time when this could have happened. Good analysis, Antiliar.

I agree about thinking CA was open territory, but from what he said in the video it sounds like Sammy didn't believe there was a California family at all. His other comment about Dragna shows some awareness, but I wonder why he is so dismissive of California but not for example New Orleans figures he met later. As a newly made member, you'd think he would want to take two seconds to network with an important made guy from another city and I don't entirely buy the "with my wife" excuse.

I've enjoyed Sammy's videos and there is good info, so I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but he's been going on about Demeo a lot lately (who he mentions in his book, too, to be fair) and the theater story is part of mafia pop culture at this point so I'm thinking he wanted to connect himself to a well-known story given he's trying to generate interest for his podcast.

[bronx]

axx ,plus other guys opinions on gravano's tales .i agree 100 percent ,he has a world of knowledge of other guys doings and going on's. now he is inserting himself in their activities.. there are guys out there that flipped that can call bullshit.. this is the stories that were never told saga..makes great television..

[Manhattan_]

Reason I do not believe this story is bc Jimmy Fratianno was in the life already for 35 + years and I do believe he would of known the way a made man needs to be introduced - by a 3rd made man. In Jimmy’s book he even mentions to Mike Rizzi as Mike is getting made in a car that the rule is a made man must be introduced by another made man as a “ Friend of Ours “