New Theory podcast Pennisi part 3

[Nick Prango]

Honestly I’m a mixed about Michael Franceze but I saw like a part of the video where they bash him and it made me cringe. Like they make a big deal about him not being a “tough guy” and him not killing people which I believe he’s done probably more that Alites confirmed body count since he was actually Italian and a capo regime . I think they’re jealous Franceze didn’t have to bat someone to advance his mafia status. Same with that Guy Ori Spado I haven’t watched a single video of his but I get BS vibes from him.

I hope Gene gets his stuff together and doesn’t end up doing stupid shit and get other people hurt.

I couldn’t agree more that Alite and Borrello come off sounding like jealous little bitches from all this. At point, Borello says, “I mean why was Michael even considered to be a Captain in that family?” Well Gene you understand the mafia was primarily interested in making money right? I'm mixed about Michael Franceze too. But Michael never claims to be a killer or a tough guy in any of his interviews that I've seen. Michael made millions for the bosses while John Alite and Gene Borrello were out baseballing degenerates down alleys. John is a narsissist who need's validation like water. Gene is not even a made men and yet he talks like he knows more than Michael. I really don't doubt that Franzese could hold his own on the street with thugs like John and Borrello, Michael never talks about violence but I pretty much guarantee he's been involved in some. And honestly it’s just easier to listen to Micheal.

What Alite and Borrello do not understand is that what they were doing was the bottom of the ladder, basically. Franzese has alluded to it before, if you were a money maker you were the king on the chessboard, and the others were there to protect you and give you back up, protect the moneymaker. Now there were some like Gravano who were both, but it was very, very rare. And yeah Franzese would probably lose if it were a one vs one with both of them wielding baseball bats, but then again, Franzese would never find himself in that position because he'd have lower ranked goons ( Aka as Alite and Borello) types to protect him/do the dirty work.

While they were doing robberies, Franzese etc and his peers were into white collar crimes, controlled the unions and directed their crews/soldiers from mansions to do their bidding. Now luckily for them a lot of people aren't that schooled on the life and how things work, so they get away with their bullshit podcast. I fucking hate when Alite refers to the Gambinos ''as our family, was a hitman for them, attended meetings etc with captains and up.'' No dude, you didn't. If those guys wanted to talk, you were send outside to take a walk and come back when the -real- guys were done talking.

It's what I really, really like about Pennisi so far.. he seems to be the only guy who hasn't talked himself up or presented himself like somesort of god of violence/money making. He represents the majority of the soldiers amongst the five soldiers, probably.. in a realistic way. I hope he never goes on Alite and Borrelo's show, it's beneath him.

I totally agree. It is beneath John Pennisi to go on John and Gene show.

[Pmac2]

I think alite knows pennisi could expose him on shit. So I don't think hes going on. He probably knows about current shit that happens to john alite with in the last 10yrs so its probably good for the brand to skip it. Did gene ever mentioned about him and his crew trying to beat up alite if they ran into each other. I figure queens guys would want it on there resume

[Nick Prango]

I like getting Gene's take, but it becomes clear every time you hear him that he deeply resents never having been made. In the Luisi/Arilotta interview he tried to get them to agree that being a violent street guy gets more respect than being an earner and they just sort of shrugged it off, saying something about being well-rounded.

I feel for the guy, honestly. He spent his life dedicated to the mafia and he has nothing to show for it in terms of status, rank, cool stories about sitdowns, etc. All he has is a life of street crime that any thug could have done, except he gave some of the money to mafia members. There's a "hierarchy" even in the rat world, where a former underboss, captain, soldier, etc. is going to take center stage over an associate who did what any black gangster does in the hood.

Is Cutolo Jr. really claiming he's made now? This seems like a formula at this point... Larry Mazza, Frank Culotta. Any others who suddenly remembered they were made?

Honestly it may have been better for Gene if he where to disappear into Witsec and get his act together as a person. Now he’s destined to make YouTube videos with Alite for the rest of his life. Unlike other mob guys on YouTube they’ve made their money he’s still young and got a long way to go. I think his little fame will get to his head and mix that with his violent street thug tendencies I don’t think it will end good.

I have read on reddit that people in Ozone Park were pissed when Gene got let out of prison. Also he likes to provoke other Italian mobsters with his "i am the last violent Italian American in New York, present day LCN are all pussies and non violent" claims. He could be in danger

[Nick Prango]

I like getting Gene's take, but it becomes clear every time you hear him that he deeply resents never having been made. In the Luisi/Arilotta interview he tried to get them to agree that being a violent street guy gets more respect than being an earner and they just sort of shrugged it off, saying something about being well-rounded.

I feel for the guy, honestly. He spent his life dedicated to the mafia and he has nothing to show for it in terms of status, rank, cool stories about sitdowns, etc. All he has is a life of street crime that any thug could have done, except he gave some of the money to mafia members. There's a "hierarchy" even in the rat world, where a former underboss, captain, soldier, etc. is going to take center stage over an associate who did what any black gangster does in the hood.

Is Cutolo Jr. really claiming he's made now? This seems like a formula at this point... Larry Mazza, Frank Culotta. Any others who suddenly remembered they were made?

After watching numerous interviews with all these former mobsters made guys and associates( Arilotta,Luisi,Gravano, Franzese, Natale, Alite, Borello, Hootie, Pennisi,Spado,Leonetti,Caucci,Mazza,Culotta,etc) i realized that almost all associates are jealous of made guys. You are totally right. There's a "hierarchy" even in the rat world

[mafiastudent]

I totally agree. It is beneath John Pennisi to go on John and Gene show.

I'm not necessarily sure it's "beneath" John Pennisi, but he's certainly not dumb. He is on supervised release for five years. Plus, he might have actually had some interaction with Alite at some point (see below).

Also, aside from everything I had posted at the beginning of the "Some Interesting Information About John Pennisi" thread. (viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7056) here's some additional information from the public record:

- He once beat someone with an ax handle (prior to him going to prison)
- Right before he walked into the FBI building to become an informant, there was a protective order against him by his then-wife (I believe it was his wife) which required him to pick up his child from the police station for visitation.
...and there's more but that'll be coming soon.

In addition, what's interesting, as far as the reasons he's stated as to why he became an informant, is that he did the exact same thing to his friend that he said others were doing to him....I thought that was sort of ironic.

Something else interesting he said on this last podcast episode was that his name was never in the paper until "after." Now, to be fair, "after" is open to interpretation. It could be he meant "after" he voluntarily walked into the FBI building to confess his crimes and those of others and his name hit the news or it could mean "after" he ran away after killing a guy out of jealousy and the murder, manhunt, and eventual arrest hit the news.

[mafiastudent]

Obviously...I did the "quote" thing wrong and didn't delete everything...this is me not Jezza9009 so apologize for that. I just wanted to highlight and respond to NickPrango's comment:

I'm not necessarily sure it's "beneath" John Pennisi, but he's certainly not dumb. He is on supervised release for five years. Plus, he might have actually had some interaction with Alite at some point (see below).

Also, aside from everything I had posted at the beginning of the "Some Interesting Information About John Pennisi" thread. (viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7056) here's some additional information from the public record:

- He once beat someone with an ax handle (prior to him going to prison)
- Right before he walked into the FBI building to become an informant, there was a protective order against him by his then-wife (I believe it was his wife) which required him to pick up his child from the police station for visitation.
...and there's more but that'll be coming soon.

In addition, what's interesting, as far as the reasons he's stated as to why he became an informant, is that he did the exact same thing to his friend that he said others were doing to him....I thought that was sort of ironic.

Something else interesting he said on this last podcast episode was that his name was never in the paper until "after." Now, to be fair, "after" is open to interpretation. It could be he meant "after" he voluntarily walked into the FBI building to confess his crimes and those of others and his name hit the news or it could mean "after" he ran away after killing a guy out of jealousy and the murder, manhunt, and eventual arrest hit the news.

[mafiastudent]

And once again, the documents for the above....sorry for the multiple posts on this....it's still early for me.

[jimmi_beans8]

soooo? everybody was on alert on jr?

[AntComello]

Can someone break down the Perna family tree for me cuz this shit is confusing

Michael Perna(deceased) made soldier his son Big Joe Perna(Joseph R Perna(Made in 2007 w/ his cousin Johnny)(according to Pennisi was acting Capo after or before Deluca) Michaels brother Ralph Sr (was made decades later after Michael but longtime crew member) .Ralph Sr has 3 sons. Ralph Jr (not made is Legit) John(made soldier) Little Joe(Joseph M Perna) (Made soldier in NY crew now). hope that helps lol

Def helps thank u bro

[TommyNoto]

listened to the podcast. So based on what he said about he NJ crew. Ralph Sr and Johnny were transferred as soldiers to his NY crew. But Johnny was nodding out at a NY dinner on drugs. Ralph Sr left embarrassed...and they never came back after that Dinner...then Lil Joe Perna was then sent to NY. He also stated that Deluca was acting Capo of NJ as well as Big Joe Perna(Mikes P's kid) was acting Capo. Very Interesting. He didn't get into detail as to why Ralph Sr was busted down to soldier only that he was warring with relatives in the NJ crew. So it seems Ralph and Johnny had to be separated from Lil Joe since after Ralph and Johnny didn't work out in NY...they were replaced with Lil Joe.lol

It seems a lot of the problems were around the time Mike got out in 2015. Sounds like it could of been a power struggle on which Pernas ran NJ.

Actually Ralph and John served their punishment and were sent back to NJ crew while Joe wanted a break from NJ mob politics and wanted in SI.

I wonder where the Tacettas figure in today with the BK guys in charge. I believe Mike had allies in BK

[Rocco]

listened to the podcast. So based on what he said about he NJ crew. Ralph Sr and Johnny were transferred as soldiers to his NY crew. But Johnny was nodding out at a NY dinner on drugs. Ralph Sr left embarrassed...and they never came back after that Dinner...then Lil Joe Perna was then sent to NY. He also stated that Deluca was acting Capo of NJ as well as Big Joe Perna(Mikes P's kid) was acting Capo. Very Interesting. He didn't get into detail as to why Ralph Sr was busted down to soldier only that he was warring with relatives in the NJ crew. So it seems Ralph and Johnny had to be separated from Lil Joe since after Ralph and Johnny didn't work out in NY...they were replaced with Lil Joe.lol

It seems a lot of the problems were around the time Mike got out in 2015. Sounds like it could of been a power struggle on which Pernas ran NJ.

Actually Ralph and John served their punishment and were sent back to NJ crew while Joe wanted a break from NJ mob politics and wanted in SI.

I wonder where the Tacettas figure in today with the BK guys in charge. I believe Mike had allies in BK

Way back when Amuso gave the order to Whack Jersey in the 90s. Mike T and Mike P went to NY and got back in their good graces and put contracts on Tommy R, His Brother Bo and Tumac. Later Mike T was imprisoned with Amuso in Atlantic briefly. I heard that Mike P and Mike T had a falling out. But that was decades ago. Who the Fuck knows? Gangland stated Mike P was on the shelf which I find hard to believe because the guy was loved by allot of people from all 5 families. Pennisi's also stated that Mike Ps son Big Joe was acting Capo for a bit ? Its funny because for YEARS after the 2007 bust people on this forum refused to put Big Joe down as a soldier on the charts here. Because they were admit that there was only 1 Joe Perna LOL I knew the truth because my cousin grew up down the block from Mike Ps family. Who the fuck knows? I'm sure it was about $$$

[Wiseguy]

Part 9 (the final part) of these interviews, although it appears they're doing something else.

Anyway, maybe some have already seen this. About 7 or 8 min in they bring up a Lucchese chart they say somebody from this forum submitted. Pennisi says some things are right but other stuff is inaccurate or out of date.

What gets me is, even though the guy doing the interview says its from a forum, he somehow takes this as a representation of official FBI charts the extent of what their intel is.

That said, the interview overall is good.

https://youtu.be/Utyq0w6-EdM

[newera_212]

Part 9 (the final part) of these interviews, although it appears they're doing something else.

Anyway, maybe some have already seen this. About 7 or 8 min in they bring up a Lucchese chart they say somebody from this forum submitted. Pennisi says some things are right but other stuff is inaccurate or out of date.

What gets me is, even though the guy doing the interview says its from a forum, he somehow takes this as a representation of official FBI charts the extent of what their intel is.

That said, the interview overall is good.

https://youtu.be/Utyq0w6-EdM

I think it's a murkamin (sp) chart. And Pennisi mistakenly thinks it's an FBI chart. I also think it's a chart that was made right before , or shortly after, the 2017 bust. Pennisi
Immediately sees that the Admin is off, notices that himself and Anthony Guzzo are missing, and continues to harp on that. I'd really like to know what he thought about the rest, especially whether or not certain guys we've seen on the Lucchese charts for a long, long time are still active. He was really focused on the fact that the Admin was wrong and that the crew territories did not match up and basically said "see, sometimes the Fed's don't know everything" (not knowing it was a fan chart put together with fed released info)

Anyway looks like this guy and Pennisi are going to be doing a standalone podcast... maybe SitDownNews the Podcast? I feel like the more us watchers and forum members support the venture and/or interact with them, the better chance we'll have at getting some real, original and unique insider content... instead of their show degenerating into a "general" mob type of show where they are fielding questions about Gotti and Donnie Brasco.

Case in point, Patrick Bet David had Joaqin Garcia / Jack Falcone on for 1.5 hours yesterday morning and the questions being asked were ridiculous. I get it, it's going to a much bigger audience who have a lot less of an interest and basic knowledge about LCN than us, but it would be great to have one of these first hand account rat shows not degenerate into the same washed up talking points or hyperbolic comparisons

[Ryan98366]

Didn't he previously testify that there were about 8 Soldiers per crew? So counting the Capos and administration you have a little over 60 active members or a little over half their total membership. That seems to be the standard ratio for the remaining families.


Pogo

I agree , I can see 60-75 active guys and another 60-75 inactive / in jail

This is exactly the correct math. Thank you. So tired of people saying 200 or 150 for the Luke’s.

[johnny_scootch]

Funny to see them review one of Muks charts to bad it was an old one he made prior to Pennisi flipping.

-Tino Corso was acting captain for Dom Truscello

-I think he mentions Nicky Scarfo Jr at 10:30 but I'm not positive. (Someone take a listen to that part tell me what he said please)

-Anthony Grado was on shelf for drugs (which we knew)

-A guy named Patty was made along with John and Anthony Guzzo. (I can't find a Patty on the Lucchese list)

-He mentions Andrew Disimone as well respected. He took the consigliere position which we knew but he's unsure if that's still accurate.

-He says Georgie Neck as a soldier is inaccurate and that they had position for him but he doesn't know if he got it. (Like I said previously I think he became captain of Brooklyn crew after Patty Red became underboss. They knew that spot would open eventually as Patty waited to move into Crea's spot)

-He says he thinks the Luccheses have more than 100 members (which doesn't make sense with the numbers he gave for the crews)

-Talks about kicking in for Vic's appeal and work on his house (which we knew)

-Talks about Nicky Scarfo Jr as member and Captain of Jersey crew but also member of Brooklyn crew at one time (which I believe we knew)

-They talk about Al D'Arco's book and Pennisi mentions the part where Tommy Red and Patty Red go on a hit together and in the book D'Arco says Tommy Red froze up and didn't do his part but Pennisi says Patty Red told him that wasn't true. That's the one part he can say for sure was embellished the rest he says was generally true from what he knows.

-He says he heard that YES THEY WERE GOING TO KILL D'ARCO IN THAT HOTEL ROOM. (Kudos to Al for having some sharp spidey senses)

-LeVecchia asks a really good question at 33:10 (worth listening to)